DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville

[Mister_D]

After stretch, try the 360:240 until the end of week 5, then try slowly dropping the calcnit. Thats how my best looking/tasting/flowers have come out...

All depends on how long the plant in question flowers for. I'm doing 2+2 until stretch ends, then 360:240 until three weeks prior to harvest when the flush starts.

What does 2 grams of each end up ppm wise? (I like measuring with the meter because I never make the same amount of water twice)

I'm using RO..

Will depend on your source waters EC . That's why I don't like using EC as a measurement to determine how much of what I should use. There is no interaction of elements when using RO, so recipes are repeatable for anybody also using RO, but same isn't true when using tap water. For me, using tap, full strength 2+2 comes out ~1.2EC.

I guess I could head downstairs and find out my damn self. I think I've done this before, AND I KNOW We've had this discussion before. Lmfao.

Thanks for your help again broheimisberg

We "might" have been back and forth about this once or twice . Vert crew sticks together though, we'll get ya sorted out one of these days

Oh and just a side note. flushing your plants with 2 gal. of 2+2 for every gal. of media will for sure fix your problem if it's nute related . That's one of my favorite things about coco. If your EC, ph, or nute ratio is out of whack, all you have to do is flush your plants with enough of the correct nute solution and they'll bounce right back

 

[DabOnDabs]

So 2 grams of Jacks in 1 gallon of R.O. water comes out to 450ppm
Add 2 grams of Calcnit comes out to 800ppm

This reduces down to ~ 320 Jacks: 280 Calcnit , If we're shooting for 1.2 ec.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I agree with Mrs. Flush it till the extra calcium is flushed out. To much calcium is locking out the magnesium. Then back off on the watering till the roots are more established. Drop the perched water table in the wick.

And watch the floor dry for deficiencies. It is a zeolite and will sequesture your nutes till it is full. Reusing it helps with this. You may have to flush it several times to keep your nutes in balance at first like coco.

 

[LSWM]

I can't believe how much CalNit you guys use. I feel like my plants are TOO GREEN, and you are all over here talking about only dropping it to the level I use after stretch.

I guess I'm using RO and D is running with tap? He's already got some extra minerals in there to balance it out?

 

[LSWM]

adding that the instructions for small batches calls for 1/2 tsp of each part per gal. this will produce approx 1050 ppm at .5 or 2.1 ec.

Alrighty... I'm finally getting this one straight, and I'll admit I've been preaching the wrong shit this whole time.

The CalNit bucket says to mix 1/2 tsp of each. The Jack's Hydro bucket says to mix 2 tbls of Jacks to 5 tsp of CalNit. I'm looking at both of them right now.

I've been preaching 5 tsp to 4 tsp Jacks:CalNit because that works for my 18 gallon tote I mix in. Clearly I was off by a tsp each way.

None of this really matters because you guys are going by ppm/EC, but I thought I'd point out my mistake, and the proper mixing instructions. I find it extremely odd the each bucket has different instructions, and not only that but a slightly different ratio.

I'll have to check what it EC each element comes out to and weigh them. I have wondered how much moisture would effect the nutrients weight, whether it's insignificant or not.

 

[Mister_D]

So 2 grams of Jacks in 1 gallon of R.O. water comes out to 450ppm
Add 2 grams of Calcnit comes out to 800ppm

This reduces down to ~ 320 Jacks: 280 Calcnit , If we're shooting for 1.2 ec.

Interesting, but not surprising. I knew the elements in my tap lock up some of the nutes, never bothered to see how much though. I use the canna stats calculator to sort out my ratios. Then measure with my EC meter after mixing to confirm/adjust if needed to 1.0-1.2 EC depending on the situation. Your method should work just fine though too .

I agree with Mrs. Flush it till the extra calcium is flushed out. To much calcium is locking out the magnesium. Then back off on the watering till the roots are more established. Drop the perched water table in the wick.

And watch the floor dry for deficiencies. It is a zeolite and will sequesture your nutes till it is full. Reusing it helps with this. You may have to flush it several times to keep your nutes in balance at first like coco.

Mrs. Flush It's a good thing we're friends bro . First I've heard of floor dry sequestering nutes though? Where did you come across this information? Can't say I've noticed it pulling anything extra from my solution, but maybe that's taken care of with the initial charge?

I can't believe how much CalNit you guys use. I feel like my plants are TOO GREEN, and you are all over here talking about only dropping it to the level I use after stretch.

I guess I'm using RO and D is running with tap? He's already got some extra minerals in there to balance it out?

My tap is generally ~0.6EC, most of which is calcium. Very little of that is actually available to the plants, if any at all. It certainly isn't factored into my nute recipe at any rate. What it does do for me is offer great ph stability, and none of the hassle of RO. As for how much cal-nit I'm/we're using, my recipe is based off h3ad's formula that I've used since starting in coco years back. Cannabis loves calcium, and coco might love it even more. Got to give the ladies what they want, so they put out for ya

 

[papaduc]

??

What happened here dabs?

I would have left the potting up til they were a bit bigger, watered less often, and used a good one part nutrient to cut out all this calnit ppm this ratio that ratio bollocks.

Would something like maxigrow&bloom be that much more expensive than what you're using?

Also, I think I saw you mention (might have been someone else) compost teas? Am I right? If so, what's the thinking behind that?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Mrs. Flush It's a good thing we're friends bro . First I've heard of floor dry sequestering nutes though? Where did you come across this information? Can't say I've noticed it pulling anything extra from my solution, but maybe that's taken care of with the initial charge.:

Sorry auto correct crap. Should be Mr. D.

I believe it was dank fran k who jumped all over me about not using NAPA becausbhe got all kinds of weird lockouts. I get them to if I don't preflush as well. So I goggled it and it came up with that it was used in industry as a zoelite for flushing minerals out of solution. That makes since based on what I have seen.

I think of it like stadium seats. They keep filling till they are full. Once they are full there are a lot of minerals hanging out. But if someone gets up that seat is filled from the people standing around. So you must precharge the NAPA to fill it.

 

[DabOnDabs]

??

What happened here dabs?

I would have left the potting up til they were a bit bigger, watered less often, and used a good one part nutrient to cut out all this calnit ppm this ratio that ratio bollocks.

Would something like maxigrow&bloom be that much more expensive than what you're using?

Also, I think I saw you mention (might have been someone else) compost teas? Am I right? If so, what's the thinking behind that?

They're pretty big bro... They definately needed a repot..

Compost teas: I have always used them a little here and there, but only with a basic airstone and 5 gallon bucket..I finally built an air lift, and have been brewing once weekly teas w/ OG Biowar to keep any nasties at bay, and to give the leaves and roots some living organisms and beneficial bacteria.

I (and everyone else in colorado and their mother) it seems got a little bit of PM this summer. Im trying to prevent that from happening, ever again.

Could I afford some maxigrow/bloom. Yea... But i have like 20 lbs of Jacks that I know works just fine. Its usually user error with this stuff

 

[DabOnDabs]

Sorry auto correct crap. Should be Mr. D.

Dont lie/good save.

 

[DabOnDabs]

There is no way any plant other than large tree could be sucking a 3 gal. pot dry more than once per day.

DOGTOWN. HAVE YOU SEEN HOW FUCKING BIG MY TREES GET!

6' + in a 3 gallon container. lemme see if i can drag up some pics of these plants im talking about.

Cant find any..

Reading your post tho, you are probably right.

Before I ripped everything apart, i was running perpetual in my big room. Humidity was a bit low on that end of the room, and my intake fans were blowing air in on that side of the room, directly above pot level... So yea.

 

[papaduc]

They're pretty big bro... They definately needed a repot..

Compost teas: I have always used them a little here and there, but only with a basic airstone and 5 gallon bucket..I finally built an air lift, and have been brewing once weekly teas w/ OG Biowar to keep any nasties at bay, and to give the leaves and roots some living organisms and beneficial bacteria.

I (and everyone else in colorado and their mother) it seems got a little bit of PM this summer. Im trying to prevent that from happening, ever again.

Could I afford some maxigrow/bloom. Yea... But i have like 20 lbs of Jacks that I know works just fine. Its usually user error with this stuff

I get it, but me, I've never understood the thinking behind teas + chemical feeds. The whole tea brewing thing is to either introduce, re-establish or maintain the levels of beneficial bacteria, which in turn process the organic elements in the root zone and make them available to the plant. Chem feeding bypasses all of that and in my opinion you're better keeping your root zone sterile with something like chlorine.

If you want to feed multiple time each day, you'd be better staying in the smaller pots for a little while longer, otherwise move them.. but then make sure you're coaxing them into the pot with gentle watering. No need to even see run off for a good few days a least.

 

[LSWM]

I get it, but me, I've never understood the thinking behind teas + chemical feeds. The whole tea brewing thing is to either introduce, re-establish or maintain the levels of beneficial bacteria, which in turn process the organic elements in the root zone and make them available to the plant. Chem feeding bypasses all of that and in my opinion you're better keeping your root zone sterile with something like chlorine.

If you want to feed multiple time each day, you'd be better staying in the smaller pots for a little while longer, otherwise move them.. but then make sure you're coaxing them into the pot with gentle watering. No need to even see run off for a good few days a least.

There are plenty of theories about amino acid, flavonoid, and sugar production in the root zone, as well as in the end product, I however tend to agree with you for the most part.

Every hydro nutrient manufacturer has a variety of additives that are supposed to supplement these missing organics; from Advanced Nutrients to GenHydro. I have played around with some of them, and have never gotten any conclusive results. It seems adding sugars/molasses/malt extracts near the end of flowering helps with flavor. I have also used Floralicious + in a variety of different situations/stages of growth and it seems to have an effect on growth, but not so much flavor. It's a sea kelp extract + humics/fulvics + protein hydrolysate (amino acid pieces).

 

[DabOnDabs]

There are plenty of theories about amino acid, flavonoid, and sugar production in the root zone, as well as in the end product, I however tend to agree with you for the most part.

Every hydro nutrient manufacturer has a variety of additives that are supposed to supplement these missing organics; from Advanced Nutrients to GenHydro. I have played around with some of them, and have never gotten any conclusive results. It seems adding sugars/molasses/malt extracts near the end of flowering helps with flavor. I have also used Floralicious + in a variety of different situations/stages of growth and it seems to have an effect on growth, but not so much flavor. It's a sea kelp extract + humics/fulvics + protein hydrolysate (amino acid pieces).

I mostly do it to prevent bugs and diseases.

Honestly, If I werent using the Biowar, I probably wouldnt do it...

But, that shit rocks.

 

[LSWM]

I mostly do it to prevent bugs and diseases.

Honestly, If I werent using the Biowar, I probably wouldnt do it...

But, that shit rocks.

I have a packet of the foliar laying around. Haven't used it in over a year, and the only reason I used it then was to combat RA. Watching fungus growing on little mites was the best thing ever.

Met52 is da bomb. I may start inoculating my coco with it in the future. Maybe it will handle my fungus gnat problem is well? Not sure.

 

[Mister_D]

Sorry auto correct crap. Should be Mr. D.

Sure blame it on the autocorrect......

I believe it was dank fran k who jumped all over me about not using NAPA becausbhe got all kinds of weird lockouts. I get them to if I don't preflush as well. So I goggled it and it came up with that it was used in industry as a zoelite for flushing minerals out of solution. That makes since based on what I have seen.

I think of it like stadium seats. They keep filling till they are full. Once they are full there are a lot of minerals hanging out. But if someone gets up that seat is filled from the people standing around. So you must precharge the NAPA to fill it.

Now that you mention it, I remember having the same discussion with frank awhile back. Suppose it makes sense if it's used industrially for flushing minerals. Though I'm wondering how important charging it with nutes really is? I haven't seen anyone report issues when using it straight as a growth media. No added requirements in my own garden mixing it heavily with coco. Have you experienced a need to add an extra nutrient charge to floor dry beyond what you'd normally add if say using perlite instead?

DOGTOWN. HAVE YOU SEEN HOW FUCKING BIG MY TREES GET!

6' + in a 3 gallon container. lemme see if i can drag up some pics of these plants im talking about.

Cant find any..

Reading your post tho, you are probably right.

Before I ripped everything apart, i was running perpetual in my big room. Humidity was a bit low on that end of the room, and my intake fans were blowing air in on that side of the room, directly above pot level... So yea.

I was referring to plants in the veg room . Of course a 6 ft flowering tree could/should require multiple feeds per day in a 3 gal pot , but average sized plant during veg no way......

 

[DabOnDabs]

Now that you mention it, I remember having the same discussion with frank awhile back. Suppose it makes sense if it's used industrially for flushing minerals. Though I'm wondering how important charging it with nutes really is? I haven't seen anyone report issues when using it straight as a growth media. No added requirements in my own garden mixing it heavily with coco. Have you experienced a need to add an extra nutrient charge to floor dry beyond what you'd normally add if say using perlite instead?



I was referring to plants in the veg room . Of course a 6 ft flowering tree could/should require multiple feeds per day in a 3 gal pot , but average sized plant during veg no way......

Im just trying to figure out this reading thing.... Its harder than it looks.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have had problems with new stuff that I top dressed with for the first time. I added about two inches to the top and right after doing this I had issues with lock out. This went away quickly with new growth. But I lost the affected leaves and slowed the plants for four or five days. Reusing the floor dry I did not run into this problem. Or watering it with a good flush.

I don't use perlite so can't say if that affects it.

 

[Mister_D]

Im just trying to figure out this reading thing.... Its harder than it looks.

Considering the amount some of us smoke around here it's amazing we're able to communicate anything at all bro

I have had problems with new stuff that I top dressed with for the first time. I added about two inches to the top and right after doing this I had issues with lock out. This went away quickly with new growth. But I lost the affected leaves and slowed the plants for four or five days. Reusing the floor dry I did not run into this problem. Or watering it with a good flush.

I don't use perlite so can't say if that affects it.

Very interesting, and good to know also . Apparently the initial charge I do at 1.4EC takes care of my coco as well as the floor dry. Explains why I've never had an issue anyway. Curious if any of the ppk guys noticed slow initial growth when first starting up. Might have to fire off a few pm's now as you got me curious . Perlite has a very low cation exchange (doesn't absorb hardly anything mineral-wise), that's why I was wondering if you'd used it at any point to compare.

 

[papaduc]

There are plenty of theories about amino acid, flavonoid, and sugar production in the root zone, as well as in the end product, I however tend to agree with you for the most part.

Every hydro nutrient manufacturer has a variety of additives that are supposed to supplement these missing organics; from Advanced Nutrients to GenHydro. I have played around with some of them, and have never gotten any conclusive results. It seems adding sugars/molasses/malt extracts near the end of flowering helps with flavor. I have also used Floralicious + in a variety of different situations/stages of growth and it seems to have an effect on growth, but not so much flavor. It's a sea kelp extract + humics/fulvics + protein hydrolysate (amino acid pieces).

I've never seen a noticeable difference either tbh. I've always said anyway that if everything's spot on, nothing should make that big a difference. Once you've got your plants motoring, any difference in their growth rates will be incremental

I mostly do it to prevent bugs and diseases.

Honestly, If I werent using the Biowar, I probably wouldnt do it...

But, that shit rocks.

If it works, do it