Normally I try to remove the overflow valves when I'm done flooding my tables. Trying to find a way to automate the quicker draining and having problems coming up with ideas. Looked into a bell siphon but seems like that constantly floods the trays... I have overwatering issues as is with once a day floods. Any ideas?
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Draining and ebb and flow table faster?
- Thread starter roasthawg
- Start date
For sure... what I'm talking about though is the drain cycle. I want to get the table to drain faster like it does when I remover the overflow valve at the end of a flood cycle in order to bring more oxygen to the roots. The problem is unless I'm right there to remove the valve then I'm stuck with the slow draining process of the water draining back thru the pump.
C
CheeseFiend
hi roasthawg a bell siphon works great on your table you have water inlet and the water outlet with 2 spacers place a plastic cup over it with a weight to hold it there your table will drain in about 2 mins
Philosophelon
Member
A few quick questions for ya:
What diameter tubing are you using?
What pump are you using?
What size is the table?
How many sets of fittings are you using?
Are you just using the pump's filter, or are you running an inline filter as well?
What diameter tubing are you using?
What pump are you using?
What size is the table?
How many sets of fittings are you using?
Are you just using the pump's filter, or are you running an inline filter as well?
Sorry man, have been meaning to get back to you but forget when I'm at my grow... not sure the size of the tubing, seems like it's .5" but could be wrong. Not sure the size of the pump either... I do know that any bigger will shoot water in the air. I'm running both 4'x8' and 4'x8' tables. Right now I'm resigned to just pulling out the overflow valves after I flood... bell siphon won't work for me as I need more control of how often I flood.
Former Guest
Active member
my overflow drain had no cover or valve so I'm not sure what you're having to manually do each time and was also 3/4 inch while the pump tube was 1/2 inch. I had drain problems so I put a bell siphon on my drain tube that fed back into the rez and it really helped. you can just get a small plastic cup and put it over the drain hole and watch it work. then the pump will turn on via the timer and the bell siphon will only drain when the tray is flooded.
What type of medium are your using? How long is your pump on/flood cycle time? What type of timer? Digtal or pen type?
You do know that when the water starts draining through the overflow it's pulling in air and oxygenating the water as it returns to the rez. If you want more O2 in the mix add an air stone and pump. Relatively cheap.
You do know that when the water starts draining through the overflow it's pulling in air and oxygenating the water as it returns to the rez. If you want more O2 in the mix add an air stone and pump. Relatively cheap.
Ive never considered the amount of oxygen added to the water as an important factor with flood and drain.....
What I think is important is the draining water draws oxygen into the medium.... the oxygen is supplied from the air....not so much the water.....
I use a bastardized bucket system with a bell syphon in each bucket controlled by a cycle timer.....
The cycles are pretty much all day long..... about 20 minutes apart.....
I consider my medium to be breathing.....
Frankly I just love it.....
"Ive never considered the amount of oxygen added to the water as an important factor with flood and drain....."
Pretty much. Added O2 doesn't hurt. As the water returns to the rez via the overflow it pulls in air with the draining water flow which increases dissolved O2 into the nute mix.
"What I think is important is the draining water draws oxygen into the medium.... the oxygen is supplied from the air....not so much the water....."
True. As the water level increases up the medium from the bottom it pushes out the older air and pulsl in new as the water drains back into the rez.
In the mean time it also is fed nutes that have dissolved O2 in the mix from the draining action. So plants get O2 from 2 sources.
If you love it and it's working.....that's the best part about it for ya. Got to love it when things work the way ya want!!
The funny thing about my bucket bell syphon system....
Is that its completely unique.....
I have never seen anyone do anything similar.....
Certainly not generally a recipe for success....
Is that its completely unique.....
I have never seen anyone do anything similar.....
Certainly not generally a recipe for success....
Philosophelon
Member
When you say “shoot water in the air,” do you mean like a stream straight upwards? Because if that's the case, you should make sure to put a screen fitting on the the feed tubing side too, and then you can have a much bigger pump without making as much of a mess.
Two things you can do to increase the speed at which the table drains are to use more sets of E&F fittings and larger diameter tubing.
The table has four of those little rectangle areas with the two little circles in them, and you can use all four if you want, or as many as is convenient. If you have four lines feeding in from the pump, then that will cut the volume of sol'n coming out of each individual fitting by 3/4, while still moving the same total volume of sol'n . That way, you can run a considerably (up to 4x) larger pump. Also, if you have a larger pump, you can run larger diameter tubing (e.g 3/4” instead of 1/2”) without having a little pump as a bottleneck.
I am in no condition to be thinking right now, so if that didn't make sense I'll proofread it in a bit
*edit - In addition to draining more quickly, this will also flood the table more quickly, which is similarly helpful insofar as it will further decrease the length of time that the rhizosphere remains submerged. Also, I think that a more rapid drain cycle sucks in fresh air better, but I can't prove it, so ymmv. If anyone has any opinions on that hypothesis, please chime in.
Last edited:
like this?
thanks, this post gave me some ideas to try out!When you say “shoot water in the air,” do you mean like a stream straight upwards? Because if that's the case, you should make sure to put a screen fitting on the the feed tubing side too, and then you can have a much bigger pump without making as much of a mess.
Two things you can do to increase the speed at which the table drains are to use more sets of E&F fittings and larger diameter tubing.
The table has four of those little rectangle areas with the two little circles in them, and you can use all four if you want, or as many as is convenient. If you have four lines feeding in from the pump, then that will cut the volume of sol'n coming out of each individual fitting by 3/4, while still moving the same total volume of sol'n . That way, you can run a considerably (up to 4x) larger pump. Also, if you have a larger pump, you can run larger diameter tubing (e.g 3/4” instead of 1/2”) without having a little pump as a bottleneck.
I am in no condition to be thinking right now, so if that didn't make sense I'll proofread it in a bit
*edit - In addition to draining more quickly, this will also flood the table more quickly, which is similarly helpful insofar as it will further decrease the length of time that the rhizosphere remains submerged. Also, I think that a more rapid drain cycle sucks in fresh air better, but I can't prove it, so ymmv. If anyone has any opinions on that hypothesis, please chime in.
Stond_Face
Member
I also like to flood and drain fairly quick.
I have a 4x8 table, E&F. I use a oversized pump, 450gpm I think. I also use large diameter hoses.
What I do different is to put a tee in the hose right after the pump. So, one port of the tee is on the pump output, one port of the tee is open to flow back to the Rez, and the last port of the tee goes up to fill the table. When the pump comes on to flood, about half the pumps output circulates back into the Rez. This mixes things up and aerates.
When the pump shuts off, the water drains very fast because it can drain through the large tube and through the open tee. It doesn't have to flow through the pump, which really slows it down.
I have a 4x8 table, E&F. I use a oversized pump, 450gpm I think. I also use large diameter hoses.
What I do different is to put a tee in the hose right after the pump. So, one port of the tee is on the pump output, one port of the tee is open to flow back to the Rez, and the last port of the tee goes up to fill the table. When the pump comes on to flood, about half the pumps output circulates back into the Rez. This mixes things up and aerates.
When the pump shuts off, the water drains very fast because it can drain through the large tube and through the open tee. It doesn't have to flow through the pump, which really slows it down.
Awesome idea, just what I was looking for.... thanks!
Philosophelon
Member
I agree -- sweet idea!
How much extra pump flow did you need to maintain something close to the non-tee table fill rate? IOW, If you had to ballpark it, what percentage of the flow rate (to the table) do you sacrifice by having the tee draining port?
