Please help, massive stunting!

[weedlover_89]

Hello, i have 24 plants in various stages of veg growth and they all exhibit various signs of stunting since the beginning of their growth. The oldest ones are 17 days old and they all show stunting. Some show burning. I am growing them in organic soil mix, i have used this soil mix in the past 2 grows and things had gone well.

The media is not too hot, it was "cooked" for about 1.5 month before i transplanted them into that. Especially after the transplants to their 5 gal pots they have gone like shit.

I could attribute it to a few things.

1)Fking fungus gnats. This time of the year there are plenty and they LOVE organic soil.

2)Poor ventilation. I am growing in a 10x10x10 room and i have only 2x5" 170 cfm inline fans bringing air in. For exhaust i have 2x6" fans at 450 cfm each. Do you think it has anything to do with it? Inline fans are restricted even more by the dust filters i have put to them to prevent bugs etc. I ordered a 8" inline fan already.

Other than that, i can't find a reason why this happens. I am burning 4x600w since the last weeks, since there is not other way i can fit so many 5 gal pots under 2x600w for instance. And along with the use of a/c it hurts a lot to burn 3600w combined for veg and have this result.

Temps are at 75 F, RH is at 40% (its low, i know, but i have heard its not good to have high RH with fungus gnats inside the grow room. What the hell should i do? Scrap them and start all over? Thinking about the lost time and money drives me nuts.

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This is them 11 days before

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This is them today


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[weedlover_89]

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[weedlover_89]

Two duds for the finale (having problems since day 1)

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WTF

Forgot to add that the whie powder you see on the soil and on some plants is Diatomaceous earth.

 

[DJXX]

i would start by flushing them and ck the runoff ph...they look a lil nute burnt maybe...if they are too close to the lights lower them a lil or raise the lights...a flush and cking the runoff ph is the first place i would start...hope that helps...i wouldn't scrap them...DJXX

 

[weedlover_89]

Dude, there is no flushing with organic soil! Its meaningless! Thanks for the answer though and caring to check out my thread!

 

[DJXX]

so you can't lower the ph on an organic mix..you said the soil cooked for 1.5 months, but don't you still ck the ph of the soil to see if the mix is proper...i don't know honestly, jus shootn in the dark, hoping to help...cause it looks like the leaves are burnt on the tips...please under stand i am no expert at all,,,really just guessing....good luck brother..DJXX

 

[DJXX]

i think they look pretty good...when i looked at them individually they are not as burnt as i thought...i bet it'll grow out of it...are you letting the mix dry out in between waterings...DJXX

 

[weedlover_89]

Its ok bro! Especially PH, there was no reason to check it. I always mix 1 cup of dolomite lime or calcite per 1 cubic foot of soil (30 soil). It was always good.

Other than that, i used everything i use for every round.

1/3 peat
1/3 perlite
1/3 worm humus and compost

For amendments i used kelp meal, tomato fertilizer and vegetables fertlizer (organic of course), neem meal and the only thing i added in this round was bat guano.

I fucked up a bit with the quantities (mixed up more neem meal in the first batch of soil and less bat guano), made another batch with more bat guano and less neem meal and everything else was equal. The final proportions as i estimated them, were what i always use and always had nice plants.

This round its all fucked up and everyday that passes i am bleeding money. I am seriously thinking about scrapping most of them and downsizing the grow.

It looks like a nute burn indeed and the question is what i am doing now. With organic soil and nute burns you don't have many choices if this is the case. Wtf, take one or two out of the pots, clean the excessive soil off their root and transplant them to new soil in smaller pots to see how it goes?

 

[DJXX]

hate to see you lose coins...usually there are many more peeps on here with advice...hopefully someone will chime in with help...good luck mane..DJXX

 

[weedlover_89]

i think they look pretty good...when i looked at them individually they are not as burnt as i thought...i bet it'll grow out of it...are you letting the mix dry out in between waterings...DJXX

They are not much burnt, but the growth rates have halted in comparison to other grows. Don't forget that i have got 4x600w around or above them (3 vertically placed, 1 horizontally placed). They should be flying.

I am letting the mix dry out, although with organic soil its suggested that you don't leave it dry out too much because of the microbes in the soil dying. They are what feeds the rootzone of your plants!

I fucked up a bit in transplant too, i transplanted early, some had their roots torn due to this and besides that the soil looks a bit too compact to me. Noob mistakes i should not be making after 4 years growing.

I am losing my mind over this.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Letting the mix "cook" doesn't not make it too hot for seedlings. I think your mix is far too hot for new seedlings, that also explains why when you transplant the plants love it.

I use my last runs soil before re-amending it for seedlings, the only thing I add is neem meal and some EWC. I put that soil aside and re-amend the rest and let "cook" for 4-6 weeks and use that at 50/50 for the first transplant into 1 gallon bags. After sexing the 1 gallon plants I use the mix straight for the transplant into 5 gallon buckets.

Last run was water only except molasses teas, this run is a little light as I didn't re-amend as heavy as normal.

 

[weedlover_89]

Letting the mix "cook" doesn't not make it too hot for seedlings. I think your mix is far too hot for new seedlings, that also explains why when you transplant the plants love it.

I use my last runs soil before re-amending it for seedlings, the only thing I add is neem meal and some EWC. I put that soil aside and re-amend the rest and let "cook" for 4-6 weeks and use that at 50/50 for the first transplant into 1 gallon bags. After sexing the 1 gallon plants I use the mix straight for the transplant into 5 gallon buckets.

Last run was water only except molasses teas, this run is a little light as I didn't re-amend as heavy as normal.

First of all, thank you for passing by! Secondly, "cooking" your soil does not make it hot, on the contrary! I just mentioned that 40 days should be enough for the soil mix to be ok!

Besides that, i don't use my organic mix for seedlings! I put them in Biobizz Light Mix soil first, its a soil especially for seedlings!

In my previous grow, i had started 2 seedlings as an experiment straight into my soil mix! They had done just fine! No problem at all! I also do water only grows. The point is that i don't use the soil mix straight for seedlings and i have used the same plant in the past at the same time and everything was fine!

I guess nothing can be done...Will grab the big inline fan and bring lots of fresh air from outside. Maybe this has got something to do with this. 2x4" inline fans with restricted air flow must not be enough for a 10x10x10 room for sure.

 

[EclipseFour20]

My vote is pH imbalance; my experience with "peat" is--seldom is the peat pH consistent "batch to batch". Testing soil pH is rather simple and inexpensive...me, I target a start pH of 6.5-6.8 and by the time harvest arrives the used soil pH is never below 6 (soil pH declines naturally).

If you pH is off...then your nutrient uptake will be off (period).

BTW, I would not be too hasty in thinking "flushing" organic soil is of zero value--here is what I posted in a different thread--

Research the term "leaching fraction"...and you will find things like:

When the build-up of soluble salts in the soil becomes or is expected to become excessive, the salts can be leached by applying more water than that needed by the crop during the growing season. This extra water moves at least a portion of the salts below the root zone by deep percolation (leaching). Leaching is the key factor in controlling soluble salts brought in by the irrigation water. Over time, salt removal by leaching must equal or exceed the salt additions from the applied water or salts will build up and eventually reach damaging concentrations. The questions that arise are how much water should be used for leaching and when should leachings be applied?

and....

Leaching is the application of water or fertilizer
solution beyond what can be held by the substrate.
Applying extra water is recommended to thoroughly
wet the substrate, and to remove excess salts from the
substrate. The leaching fraction is the volume of water
that drains from the substrate relative to the volume of
water applied. For example, if you apply 15 fluid
ounces (0.44 liters) of water, and 3 fluid ounces (0.08
liters) comes out of the bottom of the pot then 3 divided
by 15, then times 100 equals a 20% leaching fraction.
In other words, 20% of the water applied to the plant
came out of the bottom of the pot.
It is generally taught that you should have
between a 10% and 20% leaching fraction with every
watering. However, research has shown that leaching is
not necessary for long periods of time if you have a
good water source (RO or rain water is ideal) and the
fertilizer you use does not contain any harmful salts like
sodium or chloride. There are reasons to leach pots,
usually because the fertilizer concentration that is
applied to the crop is too high for the growth rate, or the
water quality is poor, and unused salts (like calcium,
magnesium, or sodium) build up in the substrate. In
general, whether or not you leach should be based on
soil test information showing salt levels actually
building up in the substrate, rather than because
somebody tells you too.
Leaching rates also affect the optimal fertilizer
concentration for your crop. Research has shown that
the same nutrient levels could be maintained in a peat
based substrate if a solution containing 400 ppm
nitrogen were applied with 50% leaching or a solution
containing 100 ppm nitrogen were applied with 0%
leaching. This research also showed that applying a
solution containing 400 ppm nitrogen with 0% leaching
rapidly lead to salts building up in the substrate to
unacceptable levels, while applying a solution
containing 100 ppm nitrogen with 50% leaching lead to
nutrient deficiencies because there wasn’t enough of the
fertilizer remaining in the pot because of the excess
leaching.

Source: staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/IPASubstrates.pdf

Moral of the story: If you normally water with little to zero runoff (dry saucer...no leaching), then big mighty flush(es) before harvest is a must; ahhh, but not necessarily true if your practice is to water with a leaching fraction of 10-20%--something that most organic growers seem to do. You might say, that 10-20% is our "flushing".

BTW, calcium, magnesium & sodium are "organic" salts of sorts.

 

[thatonedude]

I had this same problem at first with organic. your mix is too hot. they will come out of it and proceed growing normally. they just need some time to adapt to so much nutes. if they are not dead yet they will pull trough. don't worry its just a bump in the road. don't give them anything. just water and wait.

 

[thatonedude]

kinda like when you get sleepy and cant concentrate after a big meal

 

[WifiSeedsPlz]

It also might be all the roots that were damaged during transplant taking time to recover. How long have they been like this?