Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Jhhnn]

Blech, no reply to email or phone call so far. Not exactly the level of service I care for.... I'll give them a ring later, a little further away from the lunch hour. Maybe they're unionists...

I've been poking around and haven't come up with much result so far, does anyone know of another decent bulb that gets away from the HPS spectrum for a 400w ballast?

If you have a hps ballast, you want a conversion bulb, like this-

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/Conversion-Lamps#ma

Several brands are available. I used a 1000w one from htg for veg when I first started up. Worked fine.

 

[Mikell]

If you have a hps ballast, you want a conversion bulb, like this-

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/Conversion-Lamps#ma

Several brands are available. I used a 1000w one from htg for veg when I first started up. Worked fine.

Yaaar, they be too many doubloons.


Not really, I just wanted to sound pirate-y. Thanks for the heads up, I thought conversions were waaay pricier. I can get a 400w locally, and it's pretty comparable in cost to any cheaper options online, after factoring in shipping/hassle/shame of owning a hymie lamp.

Worked fine = meh?

I'm really just looking for a decent spectrum bulb to finish a few peppers with, any cannabis tucked in is gravy. I'll see how she works.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

I just gotta say guys after being on some threads here it is really nice to see my brothers helping my brothers. Grow strong!

 

[Jhhnn]

Yaaar, they be too many doubloons.


Not really, I just wanted to sound pirate-y. Thanks for the heads up, I thought conversions were waaay pricier. I can get a 400w locally, and it's pretty comparable in cost to any cheaper options online, after factoring in shipping/hassle/shame of owning a hymie lamp.

Worked fine = meh?

I'm really just looking for a decent spectrum bulb to finish a few peppers with, any cannabis tucked in is gravy. I'll see how she works.

I bought my original 1000w setup used w/ the conversion bulb & a HPS bulb. Having done my homework, I started the first batch under the conversion bulb & they did great in veg. When I tried to switch to the HPS for flowering, the ballast hummed mightily & there was a nice display of little lightning bolts inside the bulb. Not good. Changing bulbs in that reflector in my setup is a PITA, so I started thinking about it rather hard, read everything I could find about the whole red light/ blue light difference of opinion. Which was when I figured out that dual arc lamps & CMH lamps put that controversy to rest. I can't run a vertical only 860 CMH w/o a new reflector, a shitpile of work & loss of already limited vertical space, so I opted for a dual arc plantmax, which works quite well. Cheap, too, at $50 from 1000 bulbs. At 62w/sq.ft, I get lush bushy veg & limited stretch w short internodes in flower, solid resin production.

I haven't found dual arcs at 400w, however.

 

[Ericos]

The lowest wattage dual arc ive seen was a 600w but that was a couple years ago. Not to sure theyre still made but when i ran the 1000w dualarcs the seemed to run hotter(radiant heat) than the hps which i didnt like since i try to keep my lamps within 18" from the canapy with the exeption when using the OG hoods.

My friend gave me a hortilux dual arc to run next to my 860 for my next cycle cause he wanted to see if the 860 would be worth a better route for both spectrum and energy savings. Well see and itll be all golden goat under those hoods for this and 3' spacing between hoods so the light crossover is a minimum.

Got some BDS special in from Switzerland. First seed bank strain run and is loving the 860w, 3 weeks in flower.

After my first run with these 315w and 860w im sold for sure. There was slightly more green foliage than past runs but internode spacing was tighter and terpin production the best ive had. My root to fruit tables were comparable to the colas from my bigger plants so thats a plus.

 

[Drek]

Thanks for the update Ericos!

 

[Ericos]

Some pics attached before the chop. First is my golden goat, then a few phenoes of my cave monster strain. The cola tops were the size of those jawbreaker candys and dense. The trimed pic is my sour rhino cross i made(sour chem M. X white rhino F.) last pic should be gg and my cm under 860w.

Start to finish going from gavita plasma emiiter for cloning to solis tek 400 mh in veg to 315/860 cmh for flower. Alot of blue and white light throughout their cycles and lovin it. I'll need to see about adding some hps in flower to see if i can get even better results in a couple cycles with

 

[e_24]

Browsing around an saw that the 315w units can be had for round 400. Might jump on it after I use my bulbs.

 

[LargePrime]

Browsing around an saw that the 315w units can be had for round 400. Might jump on it after I use my bulbs.

advance tech lighting has them for 220

 

[Jhhnn]

I think the real promise in CMH isn't in the 315 at this point, which is still too expensive, but in the CMH lamps for existing mag MH ballasts. Both the 330 & 860 more closely duplicate sunlight than any other lamp, if you can use 'em. They also put out a lot less in the far infrared range, which is why they give excellent par values at lower wattage than HPS.

There are, in truth, other makers of CMH lamps we haven't even begun to explore here. Like this, a 400w HPS replacement from GE-

http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=93295

How could the spectrum be worse than HPS, anyway?

If natural sunlight is a good thing, then CMH approaches it a lot more closely than anything else other than maybe some LED arrays. Compared to my old school industrial grade parts, I'm slightly leery of the claims about consumer grade LED arrays, history being what it is. There's been a shitpile of low grade junk sold over the last several years.

 

[DrFever]

I think the real promise in CMH isn't in the 315 at this point, which is still too expensive, but in the CMH lamps for existing mag MH ballasts. Both the 330 & 860 more closely duplicate sunlight than any other lamp, if you can use 'em. They also put out a lot less in the far infrared range, which is why they give excellent par values at lower wattage than HPS.

There are, in truth, other makers of CMH lamps we haven't even begun to explore here. Like this, a 400w HPS replacement from GE-

http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=93295

How could the spectrum be worse than HPS, anyway?

If natural sunlight is a good thing, then CMH approaches it a lot more closely than anything else other than maybe some LED arrays. Compared to my old school industrial grade parts, I'm slightly leery of the claims about consumer grade LED arrays, history being what it is. There's been a shitpile of low grade junk sold over the last several years.

Out of curiosity what are the par ratings of the 860 ? I could only guess that the 315 CMH would be under 500 and the 860 in the 900's ?? compared to 1000 ????

You mention CMH approaches sunlight a lot more closely than anything else ?? would not plasma lighting be the closest to any growing light available on the market that would be the closest to what the sun produces ??? Look at the CRI rating of the CMH and compare it to a plasma you might be shocked does the 860 have i higher CRI rating of 94 ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQVhN3i1QcM

I am starting a journal shortly running 2 LEP pro plasma's as supplementary lighting in between 1150's ( Horizontal ) contemplating 400's double stacked vertical or mars 700 watt LED on all for corners vertical undecided yet

What concerns me is its runs on a mag ballast Old school thats for sure
so there is no efficiency?? Magnetic ballasts, especially as they age, become noisier when they operate, cause the HID lamps to flicker and also contribute to irregularities in the color that the lamp gives off

I am not in here to troll i am looking for vertical supplementary lighting
Cause i am thinking that CMH might just be good for that supplemental not the main driving force

 

[Jhhnn]

Even 315 hardware looks cheap next to plasma fixtures, which aren't lamps in the traditional sense of the word.

860 specs here- CRI 92-

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmea860.htm

This link that rives posted awhile back tells us things that the usual spectral graphs don't-

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf

Notice that huge infrared spike for HPS? Notice how CMH takes energy from there & puts it into the visible range where plants can use it? The effect is similar wrt MH, as well. The 330's & 860's probably don't do it as well as the 315. Also notice the excellent fill from CMH all across the visible range.

Philips' approach to using that increased efficiency was for lighting for people, so they reduced the power consumption to maintain the same sort of lumen values to reduce operating costs. It also holds to existing engineering values for industrial lighting. They're money saving screw in replacements for MH.

For our purposes, I suspect that same gain in efficiency still more than offsets the higher efficiency of electronic vs mag ballasts. There's only 36W difference between 1000w digital and mag ballasts, 9.2A vs 9.5A, whereas the 860 takes 140W away in the first place while supplying as much if not more visible light.

 

[Mikell]

Seriously i want to know the advantages of spending 3000.00 bucks on a LEP are these magical bulbs going to double your yields ??


All i see is people worrying to much about what light colors / wavelengths of a bulb in a lighting forum.


I love repurposing statements randomly mashed into a keyboard.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seriously i want to know the advantages of spending 3000.00 bucks on a LEP are these magical bulbs going to double your yields ??


All i see is people worrying to much about what light colors / wavelengths of a bulb in a lighting forum.


I love repurposing statements randomly mashed into a keyboard.

Heh. I'll agree with the LEP comment. OTOH, I think spectrum matters, not necessarily as much as some people think it does, however.

When A64 passed & my retirement was imminent, I decided to come back to cannabis & growing after decades of absence. So I did my homework, starting here, discovered the whole red/blue argument, started thinking about it.

Plants are adapted to natural sunlight through maybe a couple of billion years of evolution, so it seems reasonable that trying to duplicate that isn't a bad idea. OTOH, technology has its limits, as does my wallet. Which leads inevitably to CMH as the best practical solution for those who want that & can use it.

Dual arcs also address the issue, if not quite as well. It's what I use because of height & cooling constraints. I need a horizontal bulb & air cooled reflector. I use a 330 CMH on seedlings sometimes & they seem to love it.

 

[tenthirty]

If you don't want to DYI the 315 watt elite agro beats just about everything watt for watt.

Now if you want to get your hands dirty, the cxa3070 will do at 27watts sq ft where the CMH is at 40 watts sq ft and more frost.

 

[Mikell]

Heh. I'll agree with the LEP comment. OTOH, I think spectrum matters, not necessarily as much as some people think it does, however.

When A64 passed & my retirement was imminent, I decided to come back to cannabis & growing after decades of absence. So I did my homework, starting here, discovered the whole red/blue argument, started thinking about it.

Plants are adapted to natural sunlight through maybe a couple of billion years of evolution, so it seems reasonable that trying to duplicate that isn't a bad idea. OTOH, technology has its limits, as does my wallet. Which leads inevitably to CMH as the best practical solution for those who want that & can use it.

Dual arcs also address the issue, if not quite as well. It's what I use because of height & cooling constraints. I need a horizontal bulb & air cooled reflector. I use a 330 CMH on seedlings sometimes & they seem to love it.

Ah, neither of those sentiments really explains how I think about lighting, I just wanted to recycle his statements for effect.

The LEP look interesting as supplemental lighting, but the footprint is poor, the price is insane and there seem more cost effective ways of getting UV lighting. Especially now after reading the repost of rives link, that is the kind of information I look for. Perhaps if one were mixing them with HPS and running extracts, it may pay for itself eventually, but I have yet to see a run detailing actual increased THC levels.

I am looking to closely approximate the suns spectrum, and see CMH as a good place to start while LED is moving forward. My wallet leads me here as well.

I was reading over the page on the conversion you posted, and the manufacturer states the spectrum changes with bulb position. Is this unique to conversion or have I been overlooking something fairly important for awhile now?

Edit:appears I have

 

[DrFever]

If you don't want to DYI the 315 watt elite agro beats just about everything watt for watt.

Now if you want to get your hands dirty, the cxa3070 will do at 27watts sq ft where the CMH is at 40 watts sq ft and more frost.

Just about ???? i mean if a side by side was done not used to small wattage so guessing 150 watt MH + 150 watt HPS would CMH out perform it ??
CMH is the least favorable being outdone by regular MH in blue for veg but would likely be a better choice over MH as a full cycle lamp. But HPS, especially a horticultural HPS lamp would likely outperform it by a good margin would it not ??? i mean 150 mh plus 150 HPS vs 315 CMH
when looking at the agro it really doesn't look overly impressive

The Elite Agro 315W CMH lamp produces 1.90 PPF/W or 598 µmol/s when putting it up against something like Camelion plasma

2000 umol x2 4000 umol @ 12 " thats insane folks

Solar Genesis II
Longer lifespan, less heat, less electricity
Rapid return on investment

2 x 2000 umoles PAR (full spectrum)
Measured @ 12” (recommended distance
from plant canopy for optimum performance)

Generates a small amount of heat
No air conditioning required

Bulb life 30,000 hours (7 years ±)
(no bulb replacement for life of unit)

Internal power supply
(AC to DC conversion efficiency 94%)

Internal case fan
and believe it or not plants grow slower in the blues then in reds anyways i really like the 500 watt plasma great price to under 1000 and good for like 7 years make my money back after 1 grow
21 days from flipping to flower an anyone say Frosty ????
http://www.chameleongrowsystems.com/Home.html

 

[DrFever]

Ah, neither of those sentiments really explains how I think about lighting, I just wanted to recycle his statements for effect.

The LEP look interesting as supplemental lighting, but the footprint is poor, the price is insane and there seem more cost effective ways of getting UV lighting. Especially now after reading the repost of rives link, that is the kind of information I look for. Perhaps if one were mixing them with HPS and running extracts, it may pay for itself eventually, but I have yet to see a run detailing actual increased THC levels.

I am looking to closely approximate the suns spectrum, and see CMH as a good place to start while LED is moving forward. My wallet leads me here as well.

I was reading over the page on the conversion you posted, and the manufacturer states the spectrum changes with bulb position. Is this unique to conversion or have I been overlooking something fairly important for awhile now?

Edit:appears I have

i think the spectrum changes all the time being the Efficiency of a mag ballast period from flickering to actual draw don;t quote me on that

Anyways i have decided to purchase four 700 watt LED full spectrum for my supplemental lighting and to be hung vertical .... 600 watts in LEP plasma horizontal inbetween 1150's Should be in next week will post should be able to hang these fuckers vertical http://www.topledgrowlight.com/mars-ii-led-grow-light-700w.html#.VCOFuhDIZOU

So total power 4 plant 36 Sq feet 4420 watts for my close to sun watts per foot of 122 watts per Sq foot tree grow

 

[rives]

Funny stuff.

Here it was only a week ago that you were espousing the huge superiority of 3-watt LEDs over 5-watt, and now you have a big treble hook in your lip for (4) fixtures that use 5-watt chips. Of course, they are only driving them at a shade over 2 watts because trying to drive a 15"-square fixture at 700 watts would take a fan that could convert a DC-10 from jet propulsion to a propeller. The next time that a quality 700 watt (or even 300 watt) fixture is sold for under $300 will be the first time, and it's still a long ways off.

Good luck.

 

[Seaf0ur]

Well I was given a bulb to test out... 860watt

This was the parabolic all set up to begin veg on 9/14... I cut my perpetual for one full run as the timing lined up and permitted it... indicas and sativas sit side by side, so I assume the flip will once again begin a perpetual.... the ones in small pots are different males.

my initial impression... better light output than the old 1000 hps, and a noticeable amount more heat as well.... I'll get some current shots up later today...