Vacuum Pump discussion/questions

[Gray Wolf]

Hi I just joined having some questions about purging and found all of my answers in this thread rite hear. First off I want to say I been on multiple sites researching for weeks and u guys are the best. I am new to bho but been intrigued for quite some time, I finaly got a great opportunity to run a large amount of material for a friend and hoped on the opportunity and bought a 3gal best value vac chamber(awesome lid an gasket no issues so far) and a robinair 15300(3cfm-2stage) with this setup I am pulling a complete vac past 30 and was wondering why the bubbling never stop at 110-115*f thin film, I now know thanx to use I had a feeling that couldn't still be butane bubbles. My question is what can I do to stop my chamber from going past 29.5hg? I really don't want to play with the valve for an hour bak an forth trying to keep it in range.

You can close the ball valve between the chamber and the pump, and open it again as the pressure decays, or you can crack the back fill valve and bleed just enough air in to keep the pressure at the level that you desire.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I guess a better question would be how long can i leave the valve closed at my desired vacuum before i have to start worrying about moister and burp it?

You will be able to see the moisture condense on the underside of the lid or the oven door, but maybe 4 or 5 minutes............

 

[GreenBlood420]

You will be able to see the moisture condense on the underside of the lid or the oven door, but maybe 4 or 5 minutes............

Thanx for help the last 2 batches came out pretty fucking good I'll try to figure out how to post sum pics, but I ended up closing the valve and had no moisture issues what so ever under -29.5hg @ 115f* I would just burp it every 20 min or so to get sum fresh air in and check the temp but average purge times untill no reaction have been about 2 hours for me at the settings just mentioned. anyone eles who's making shatter at this range what have ur vac times been??
Like I was saying my last 2 runs have looked great, smoked smooth, and got u stoned fast but the taste hasn't been where my picky ass would like it, I'm a real stickler for taste in fact that's my favorite thing about smoking concentrates, when done rite that concentrated flavor of ur favorites strands is an addiction in it self lol.
Any tips on preserving flavor?
So far the tastiest shatter I've tryd (havnt been smoking bho long) had tons of lil lil bubbles inside were my product comes out super clear golden honey with a glass like finish.

 

[GreenBlood420]

Forgot to mention at one point durring the purge my products temp got up to 130f probly for no more than 10 mins could this have hindered the taste?
Also I'm scraping from the hot water bath soon as the bubbles stop popping on there own and after I pop the remaining ones, not sure if this process done another way could help with taste?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanx for help the last 2 batches came out pretty fucking good I'll try to figure out how to post sum pics, but I ended up closing the valve and had no moisture issues what so ever under -29.5hg @ 115f* I would just burp it every 20 min or so to get sum fresh air in and check the temp but average purge times untill no reaction have been about 2 hours for me at the settings just mentioned. anyone eles who's making shatter at this range what have ur vac times been??
Like I was saying my last 2 runs have looked great, smoked smooth, and got u stoned fast but the taste hasn't been where my picky ass would like it, I'm a real stickler for taste in fact that's my favorite thing about smoking concentrates, when done rite that concentrated flavor of ur favorites strands is an addiction in it self lol.
Any tips on preserving flavor?
So far the tastiest shatter I've tryd (havnt been smoking bho long) had tons of lil lil bubbles inside were my product comes out super clear golden honey with a glass like finish.

After the solvent bubbles are long gone, you will continue to get bubbling from decarboxylation.

The flavor and aroma lies with the mono and sesquiterpenes. While you may be above their boiling points, the monoterpenes have high vapor pressure, so when you continue to heat and vacuum the material after the solvent is gone, you pump off your flavor and aroma.

 

[Sirdabsalot46n2]

No I haven't. I just calculated deflection.

Have you laid a straight edge on it and slid a gauge under it?

No sir, but that is something that I'll will contact my acquaintances and advise them to do so.

However, I did visit my.friend that works for Medical Mj center producing large scale extractions with the 5 galón.

He purchased it about 8 weeks ago, runs it extensively 3-4 times per week.
I personally inspected the chamber/lid and components.

The integrity of the chamber has held firm,.no warping on the lid..confirmed rudimentialy by using a level to check for deflection.

The vessel itself (Stainless Model) has no dents, or dings..
He reports that there was no notifications needed, i.e...

Teflon tape, JB Weld at rivets..

I personally would reinforce the hose connections with ss hose clamps.
Hope this helps.

The friend with the 3 gallon runs about 1 x per week..
Chamber looks brand new.

 

[Sirdabsalot46n2]

Terpenoid retention (taste)

Terpenoid retention (taste)

Forgot to mention at one point durring the purge my products temp got up to 130f probly for no more than 10 mins could this have hindered the taste?
Also I'm scraping from the hot water bath soon as the bubbles stop popping on there own and after I pop the remaining ones, not sure if this process done another way could help with taste?

Hello Green Blood,

This is how I preserve my flavor (by the way it's astonishing how flavorful oil can potentially be.

Imagine the taste of your favorite strain, traveling across your palet and through the nostril..multiplied to the 10 th degree.

First step is dehydration of ” wet” or sticky bud..I like my material very dry and crispy prior to extracting.

Next is spraying the butane into an ambient temperature collection dish (no pre heat) wait til a majority of liquid butane to evap, then add your heat source for initial boil off .(Hot water bath, or a dish full of sand that's been heated.)

Keep temps around 90-100° on initial plate purge.

Try 110° while vacuum'g ..if the oil is not molten enough for gas to escape, turn up heat in 1° increments.

I like the way this thread is progressing....

Everybody seems to have their own personal technique in utilizing a vacuum and chamber.

For the first 30 minutes of vaccing..
I run the pump at room temp and achieve muffin,release, repeat.

I let in fresh air quite a bit..
Hope this helps

 

[Gray Wolf]

No sir, but that is something that I'll will contact my acquaintances and advise them to do so.

However, I did visit my.friend that works for Medical Mj center producing large scale extractions with the 5 galón.

He purchased it about 8 weeks ago, runs it extensively 3-4 times per week.
I personally inspected the chamber/lid and components.

The integrity of the chamber has held firm,.no warping on the lid..confirmed rudimentialy by using a level to check for deflection.

The vessel itself (Stainless Model) has no dents, or dings..
He reports that there was no notifications needed, i.e...

Teflon tape, JB Weld at rivets..

I personally would reinforce the hose connections with ss hose clamps.
Hope this helps.

The friend with the 3 gallon runs about 1 x per week..
Chamber looks brand new.

The time to check for deflection is under full vacuum and use a staight edge across the lid, with a feeler gauge in the center.

I used 1" acrylic lid on our 12" pot and had about 1/16" deflection in the center at ambient temperatures. At 1/16" failure isn't imminent, but we accelerate the process by adding heat, so keep an eye out for stress cracks developing, which should happen before any failures.

 

[Sirdabsalot46n2]

As per usual

As per usual

The time to check for deflection is under full vacuum and use a staight edge across the lid, with a feeler gauge in the center.

I used 1" acrylic lid on our 12" pot and had about 1/16" deflection in the center at ambient temperatures. At 1/16" failure isn't imminent, but we accelerate the process by adding heat, so keep an eye out for stress cracks developing, which should happen before any failures.

Always great advice from the wise GW!

Tomorrow I'm supposed to stop by and help set up the Terpenator. I will then check the lid under vac.

Not sure where I could find the feeler gauge, but will try to figure a means of measurement of deflection....
Thank you as usual GW...

Appreciated as always, I'll probably talk these felluhz, and talk then into getting a new lid at the very least.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Always great advice from the wise GW!

Tomorrow I'm supposed to stop by and help set up the Terpenator. I will then check the lid under vac.

Not sure where I could find the feeler gauge, but will try to figure a means of measurement of deflection....
Thank you as usual GW...

Appreciated as always, I'll probably talk these felluhz, and talk then into getting a new lid at the very least.

A tool store or a automotive supply are good places to look for feeler gauges. You can also just see how many coins you can slide under it.

 

[jdee]

Was browsing around the cascade tek website and saw this

"Why a Chemical Duty Vacuum Pump?

Butane Ruins Pumps. Butane will destroy the internal workings of most pumps. Chemical duty pumps are not destroyed by butane and offer the flexibility of using a trap to collect butane for reuse/disposal/exhausting to a safe location."

This is the first time I've heard of chemical duty pumps, is it worth it? Or is using filter driers on a regular pump sufficient? I know hvac technicians recommend changing the filter drier for every job.. but how often should someone using a filter drier for closed loop extraction replace it. I know my particular filter holds 200+ drops of water before it needs to be replaced by I have no idea how to tell when that point has been reached. Are there any reliable methods for determining when a filter is still good vs need to be replaced?

 

[Gray Wolf]

The Cascade TEK that we're experimenting with, came with a Welsh membrane pump and it is definitely worth it for cold boiling alcohol.

An alternative is to use a cold trap between the pump and the oven.

You could probably tell by weighing the filter.

 

[jdee]

Realizing that filter driers are used on refrigerant recovery pumps, and that purging butane messed up my $150 vacuum pump after 2.5 years, my actual question is probably more like "would you rather use a cheaper vacuum pump that needs to be replaced occasionally in my case $1500 for 25 years or change the oil every single time (not sure how much this would cost over 25 years), or get a $2000 pump rated for use with solvent that will last who knows how long?"

 

[Gray Wolf]

Depends on your goals. One of ours is to recovery the solvents and monoterpenes, and having an oil less pump is a big advantage.

 

[gonza]

knf vacuum pump good?

knf vacuum pump good?

is it worth buying one of these? I´m not sure if it will fulfill my needs.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/KNF-NEUBERGE...t=Laborgeräte_instrumente&hash=item3ce30df4e9

Zum Heranzoomen mit der Maus über das Bild fahren
-
Zum Vergrößern bitte anklicken

 

[MD84]

just had a cps va pump delivered. the quality seems much better than my old chinese one from ebay. one thing im unsure of though is the gas ballast. do i need to open this when operating(if it opens) and how exactly does it work? thanks for any help

 

[~Alaska~]

The Cascade TEK that we're experimenting with, came with a Welsh membrane pump and it is definitely worth it for cold boiling alcohol.

An alternative is to use a cold trap between the pump and the oven.

You could probably tell by weighing the filter.

I am currently considering purchasing this pump. Would love to hear more about how well it works for degassing as well before I drop the coin. Problems/issues/awesomeness/etc.

Also was considering the 2052B over the 2042B as it isn't that much more money and I will likely need the upgrade in the future. Possibly might do a rebuilt as well......just not sure and sick of chaging/drying out oil lol. Plus I want to take my JB 7 cfm and have it as a dedicated pump for the terp so I can run the terp and the oven at the same time without moving pumps all day.

Any dry pump brands to avoid?

Input appreciated.

A

 

[MD84]

well the 2 stage isn't really much quieter than the single. i'm guessing everything get exhausted out the gas ballast valve as the exhaust cap must be left on, i did have oil leaking out through this though when i left the chamber under pressure but switched the pump off. it did say not to use with systems under pressure so should i disconnect when leaving the chamber under pressure or would an exhaust filter in plce of the cap sort this issue?

 

[Gray Wolf]

well the 2 stage isn't really much quieter than the single. i'm guessing everything get exhausted out the gas ballast valve as the exhaust cap must be left on, i did have oil leaking out through this though when i left the chamber under pressure but switched the pump off. it did say not to use with systems under pressure so should i disconnect when leaving the chamber under pressure or would an exhaust filter in plce of the cap sort this issue?

I would install a ball valve between the pump and the chamber. Always close it before stopping the pump, or the vacuum in the chamber will suck oil out of the vacuum pump.

 

[MD84]

I would install a ball valve between the pump and the chamber. Always close it before stopping the pump, or the vacuum in the chamber will suck oil out of the vacuum pump.

perfect, just the kind of info i was after. thanks G.W.