Turning clone only strains into seed strains, why not?

[Space Toker]

Turning clone only strains into seed strains, why don't more do it? (note: I just typed a thesis and hit some key on the lower keyboard and it all vanished! anyone know what key that is and a way to retrieve it?)

I know ease and financial concerns probably have something to do with it. Stability of clone strains maybe also at times. But why doesn't say someone who has the exodus cheese cut cross it with Northern Lights or some other male of a stable stain, and then keep backcrossing the progeny to the clone to create a stable strain that can continually and reliably be grown from seed? The more I read it, this sounds like a project for a hobby preservationist who wants to turn clone only's into IBL's, but I am still surprised a few breeders don't tackle it.

edit: I know plenty do s1's or fem crosses clone to clone, but I am talking making a 90 something % pure version of the clone only in seed form. Which seed strains are good candidates for what I propose?

 

[stihgnobevoli]

because due to demand or some other factor i'm unaware of people like the same shit, whatever's pulling the hype train at the moment. So instead of someone cubing a clone you just get one off crosses. then someone takes a clone from that one off cross it gets to the front of the hype train, then someone crosses that clone...lately back to the mom of the original cross. so in the end you just end up with more of the same shit.

my unpopular humble opinion on the matter.

why try and cube a gg#4, just cross it to something else make money off the hype, when it dies down cross the cross back to gg#4 or even better cross it back to diesel/chem so we can have more diesel/chem one off's

can't wait till every strain is just a chem/diesel derivative.

 

[Photosynthesis]

By the time you inbreed that much the hype has vanished.

Then you just spent years of hard work for nothing.

All clone only's came from a seed. Just pop beans, and find your clone only. Way easier.

 

[Space Toker]

yeah I guess after years of hard work and that "hype train" is way down the tracks chasing the new latest and greatest, there would be little demand left. Still, kushes seem to always have some demand, and many of the clone only's have been around for decades. I guess you are saying seed slingers peddaling the new fad thing with one time crosses is the unfortunate wave of the future, and breeding stable strains a thing of the past? Sad!

 

[Space Toker]

Northern Lights was clone only right? Big Bud? A host of other similar strains seem to have started out as clone only and ended up in seed form. Now maybe not as much backcrossing as what I mentioned but still... OG or Bubba Kush never seem to lose popularity, I don't know the history but they seem to date to at least the 90's if not earlier, maybe way earlier. So someone then could have done this and we could have had a OG Kush IBL by now. Yes, again, far quicker roads to bigger riches, someone would have to be doing it as their own hobby or for the "cause" or something, hell if I get a chance it might be a project of mine.

can't wait till every strain is just a chem/diesel derivative.

That's precisely what I want to avoid! It seems all people are interested in now is a handful of clone only's crossed to each other as "one-off's", while many deserving strains get less and less attention. So what's it going to look like 10-20 years from now? Just a bunch of mungrel junk and clones? The gene pool severely depleted of potentially valuable genes? Ugly!

 

[Space Toker]

I just think preventing the extinction of any strain is important, preserving the parental/ancestral material far more so. So allow for all kinds of crosses but lock in the genes to preserve and stabilize existing strains as well.

 

[Gram Paw smurf]

Is all sky is falling rhetoric imo.
Already been going on for decades.
Lots of breeders ibl'ing cut lines all the time,n cuts aint strains either they're just pheno's that came from seed like all the rest.
Many from batches of seeds wit plenty of what could easily be as impressive sibblings through out, n lots f the more contemp cuts just hermied bag seed.
Already a strain, n just renamed as a "cut" for credit for "finding" it. lol
Just cause many breeders on the market aren't doing much of much use nowadays doesn't mean the multitude of more breeders out in the world are following their "lead".
Besides same landrace gear that made all the original hybrids that made all the contemporary poly's are still as available as they've always been n there's nothing stopping anyone from going back 40 yrs n strting from scratch with there own new f1 hybrids.
Just as much if not more opportunity as there was back than to do so n so few actually doing so tells me the market is supplying exactly what it's consumer base wants.
Lazy gear, for lazy growers.
Nothings stopping anyone from doing anything but themselves.

cheers,...............................................gps

 

[ECtraveler]

^this.

The world has never had as easy access to such a wide array of genetics as it does today.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Is all sky is falling rhetoric imo.
Already been going on for decades.
Lots of breeders ibl'ing cut lines all the time,n cuts aint strains either they're just pheno's that came from seed like all the rest.
Many from batches of seeds wit plenty of what could easily be as impressive sibblings through out, n lots f the more contemp cuts just hermied bag seed.
Already a strain, n just renamed as a "cut" for credit for "finding" it. lol
Just cause many breeders on the market aren't doing much of much use nowadays doesn't mean the multitude of more breeders out in the world are following their "lead".
Besides same landrace gear that made all the original hybrids that made all the contemporary poly's are still as available as they've always been n there's nothing stopping anyone from going back 40 yrs n strting from scratch with there own new f1 hybrids.
Just as much if not more opportunity as there was back than to do so n so few actually doing so tells me the market is supplying exactly what it's consumer base wants.
Lazy gear, for lazy growers.
Nothings stopping anyone from doing anything but themselves.

cheers,...............................................gps

Where do u get these 40 year old land race genetics? Ive read that many of these have been hybridized by the hype for the mighty dollar and the promise of increased vigor and yield by the evil indica. lol

 

[stoned-trout]

the reason their clone only is because someone didn't know how to breed...

 

[ECtraveler]

Where do u get these 40 year old land race genetics?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=landrace+marijuana+genetics

Seriously though. Ace, Cannabiogen, Snowhigh, Real Seed Co, Mandala, etc are just a few ....plus the thousands of private chuckers. The shortage isn't nearly as bad as you think it is. No they longer account for the majority of seed stock but that has more to do with added variety than less.

 

[ECtraveler]

Where do u get these 40 year old land race genetics?

Where did you get them 40 years ago?

edit: Sorry for coming off rude. I was trying to point out that we have it pretty easy these days with anything and everything just a mouse click away but I didn't mean to be a dick about it.

 

[thatonedude]

im sure some do what your talking about for their own personal seed collection, but the reason you don't see seed producers do it is money. its easier to cross two elites and sell f1 hybrids. a lot of money now vs. a little money later

 

[NEGT1]

Is all sky is falling rhetoric imo.
Already been going on for decades.
Lots of breeders ibl'ing cut lines all the time,n cuts aint strains either they're just pheno's that came from seed like all the rest.
Many from batches of seeds wit plenty of what could easily be as impressive sibblings through out, n lots f the more contemp cuts just hermied bag seed.
Already a strain, n just renamed as a "cut" for credit for "finding" it. lol
Just cause many breeders on the market aren't doing much of much use nowadays doesn't mean the multitude of more breeders out in the world are following their "lead".
Besides same landrace gear that made all the original hybrids that made all the contemporary poly's are still as available as they've always been n there's nothing stopping anyone from going back 40 yrs n strting from scratch with there own new f1 hybrids.
Just as much if not more opportunity as there was back than to do so n so few actually doing so tells me the market is supplying exactly what it's consumer base wants.
Lazy gear, for lazy growers.
Nothings stopping anyone from doing anything but themselves.

cheers,...............................................gps

Yeah, by definition a cut only strain cannot be replicated, at least at this point in breeding cannabis and history.

It's not even about the fact that "clone only" strains loose hype after x amount of years (OG or Chem obviously didn't...) BUT recreating a consistent copy of those clone only pheno's, into geno's that express the original pheno traits is harder than any breeder cares to admit.

If a breeder could put out a consistent OG Kush IBL, that growers loved, they would have by now because the amount of money they could make with a respectable OG IBL, but given laws of the recent 100 years, breeding on a proper scale hasn't been possible.

Chemdog IBL is a nice try, but it's not consistent with any clone really, at least consistent enough where growers would rather grow a pack from seed than grab clones of the original cuts...Even then, I mean, why spend 5-10 years trying to replicate something that can be cloned, rooted, and vegged in two weeks....and exact copy...

 

[Wendull C.]

I have seen many crosses of my favorite og. None no matter how stony, heavy, or potent even compare to that original sfv clone.

 

[dank.frank]

Getting a poly-hybrid bred to the point of all seeds or even 8/10 seeds being the ideal phenotype is not as easy as one would think...

It takes roughly 5-8 years - and about 10-15 generations to get a semi-stable cannabis seed line...

For my own personal stock - once I've got something to Bx1 - I'm pretty content in knowing I've got it backed up in a manner that I can find something relatively close to the original parent, given I sort enough seed - and given I made intelligent selections to build the Bx in the first place. There will still be a large range of phenos, but I know I've reiterated the traits I'm after enough times they will surface again...even if in separate plants - it gives me the ability to recombine without introducing too much more variance.



dank.Frank

 

[Karma G]

Its takes a lot of time, space, and money to do it.

Comercial company's dont do that investment a lot these days, But there is some on market tho.

Face Off BX2

JJ from topdawg did very well with cubing the Chem's

I did Happy Brother and Biker Kush (HAbx2) And Karma OG (f4)


And there is more doing it, but how much i would love to do way more of these, It will need a big playgound to do so.

 

[harry74]

You´ll end up in prison like Rez lol....

S1 and STS are the way of this dysgenic industry,They don´t want people doing breeding, they want to make of growers just ameba-like end consumers....

STS = Crime against BIODIVERSITY
Feminized seeds= CMS seeds
CMS = Chemically Mutated Seeds
Crime Against Biodiversity= Crime Against Humanity.

Remember this Post Canna Toy Boys.

 

[VenturaHwy]

I've done what you are saying but just to preserve my old cutting I got back in 84. I backcrossed it 13 or 14 times which got rid of the original male used in the outcross. If I had known how to make an S1 I would have just done that, it would have been much easier.

I have the seeds in the frigd and freezer for a day when my 15 plant limit is gone. It was fun to see all the different pheno's that made up the cut.

Here the cut I had for many years

 

[TrinZilla]

Nice, looks great!

Here is a plant just at the beginning of the backcross process, Thunderfuck x Lavender. We are excited to see things like this pop out:

And our Trinity x Lavender, which is currently at bx3:

Both of these projects are intended to either eventually replace their clone-only mother or have no surviving mother to replace, so survive as the best representation of an original well-loved clone only strain...

And in our humble opinion, some strains are worth the trouble to preserve regardless of any hype or popularity.