thatonedude
Member
i admit that i don't really understand genetics that well but, a seed from a self pollinating female would basically be equivelant to a clone other than not having the ability to produce male seed
im new to seed making
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thatonedude
Member
sorry about the multiple posts. im just thinking out loud and hoping that people will correct my inaccuracies
StankyBeamer
Professional A$$hole
He recommended selfing because it eliminates the male variable. You can go through a smaller amount of females to know which one breeds better because you don't have variations from a male, testing both female and male parents at the same time at the same time takes a large plant count and space. By reversing a few females you can tell what's gonna pass which traits so you don't have to test hundreds of seeds. You can use florel growth regulator to reverse your males also. This too cuts a lot of time and testing because you can see which males pass on better bud structure, size, and density, while simultaneously getting a good idea of what his resin production and terpene profile is. Takes the mystery out of male selections, you'll no longer have to pollinate several moms with a male to evaluate him
selfing is not like a clone of the plant. i'm not smart enough to explain all the details but im sure someone will come through and explain.
I'd say keep males, and flower them / toss pollen. keep the seeds safe and you will be happy about it for years to come.
I'd say keep males, and flower them / toss pollen. keep the seeds safe and you will be happy about it for years to come.
what they're trying to say is basically.
lets say you have 2 plants, one is from regular seed one is a fem. lets call the cross bb (blueberry) x ogk (og kush)
the regular seed has all the possible gene combinations from the blueberry side and all the possible gene combinations from the og side. the regular seed is made of 50% genes bb 50% genes ogk. the fem seed would be from the same cross. but it would only have half the genes from the cross.
that wasn't really clear but we're getting closer.
we know the regular seed takes the genes it got from its mom the blueberry which has a certain mixture of genes like your own mom has a mixture of genes from her parents. lets call this (bb). the other half come from the dad, like your dad, which we can call (og).
a female from this cross would be something like [bbog]or[bobg]or[ogbb]or[etc..]
to get a selfed seed you would need to make this female become both parents mom and dad. so we take this girl [bbog] and she makes male flowers and pollen. when you get the pollen it's only going to have HALF of those genes to give. [bb]or[bo]or[bg]or[og]or[however they combined...remember this is a very simplistic explanation. in reality just one of the [bbog] is actually gonna read [bBoOgGbBOGboGGBBObbGbboboooBBgbbg] with the sum total adding up to "look/seem" as . and we dust this female with her own pollen which was half the genes then re add them back into itself. the result is plants that are all female and all contain the various combinations from the original parents. on the mom's side. or leaning heavily on the moms side at the very least.
so at the end of the day assuming they split down straight lines. in a malexfemale cross you have [bbxog] available to you to cross to [wwxhh] or whatever your 2 parents will be. in a female only selfing you are only taking [bbxog] and splitting that [bb] and [og] and either recombining (the actual selfing) this particular iteration of bbxog from the original parents and then remixing those set of genes to see what was possible from all the available genes from the original parents the mom bb and the dad og(k). if you take the reversed pollen and dust another plant you will be doing an EITHER [bb] or [og] (half the genes) x [wwxhh].
hope that helped a little.
lets say you have 2 plants, one is from regular seed one is a fem. lets call the cross bb (blueberry) x ogk (og kush)
the regular seed has all the possible gene combinations from the blueberry side and all the possible gene combinations from the og side. the regular seed is made of 50% genes bb 50% genes ogk. the fem seed would be from the same cross. but it would only have half the genes from the cross.
that wasn't really clear but we're getting closer.
we know the regular seed takes the genes it got from its mom the blueberry which has a certain mixture of genes like your own mom has a mixture of genes from her parents. lets call this (bb). the other half come from the dad, like your dad, which we can call (og).
a female from this cross would be something like [bbog]or[bobg]or[ogbb]or[etc..]
to get a selfed seed you would need to make this female become both parents mom and dad. so we take this girl [bbog] and she makes male flowers and pollen. when you get the pollen it's only going to have HALF of those genes to give. [bb]or[bo]or[bg]or[og]or[however they combined...remember this is a very simplistic explanation. in reality just one of the [bbog] is actually gonna read [bBoOgGbBOGboGGBBObbGbboboooBBgbbg] with the sum total adding up to "look/seem" as . and we dust this female with her own pollen which was half the genes then re add them back into itself. the result is plants that are all female and all contain the various combinations from the original parents. on the mom's side. or leaning heavily on the moms side at the very least.
so at the end of the day assuming they split down straight lines. in a malexfemale cross you have [bbxog] available to you to cross to [wwxhh] or whatever your 2 parents will be. in a female only selfing you are only taking [bbxog] and splitting that [bb] and [og] and either recombining (the actual selfing) this particular iteration of bbxog from the original parents and then remixing those set of genes to see what was possible from all the available genes from the original parents the mom bb and the dad og(k). if you take the reversed pollen and dust another plant you will be doing an EITHER [bb] or [og] (half the genes) x [wwxhh].
hope that helped a little.
thatonedude
Member
so taking pllen from a female plant and using it to pollinate itself will produce seeds that are usable for breeding or not? and thank you guys for taking time out of your day to help this noob understand
by usable I mean I can give those seeds away and someone else could start their own breeding program
by usable I mean I can give those seeds away and someone else could start their own breeding program
thatonedude
Member
the outdoor folks I know are a bit old fashioned. when they need more seed they either order it or take whatever male they have around and slap all their females with it. that method doest work very well for them. their seed produces a lot of hermis and is only about 30% viable
thatonedude
Member
I think I have a lot of reading to do
thatonedude
Member
can anyone suggest a book or other source material for me too learn?
Don't worry, it's been tried thousands of times, but one cannot mimic natural selection of natural mutation. It just doesn't happen. Hence why everyone wants chem dog or og kush, it was selected for humans, by humans. Not a single being trying to recreate the next goddess in seed form...
StankyBeamer
Professional A$$hole
You could breed with the feminized seeds but I wouldn't recommend it. The self pollination is more of a way to get a good idea how uniform the females in question are, once you have an idea of what females pass on desirable traits from seeing the s1s of them, you then go back and use the best female you pollinated, not the femmed testers, and use it to make seeds with your male. The feminized offspring from the test would likely be sterile or pass on hermaphroditic traits, u don't make those for breeding, they are just to get a glimps of wha their parent is passing. Think about it, if you did your test cross with a male, you wouldn't know which offspring got which traits from either parent. If you pollinate the females with themselves, the resulting seeds contain genetics of only one patent, so any favorable traits you get are for-sure inherited from the plant you selfed, there's no genetics from a male to confuse things when your just trying to finda suitable female. This just slims down your workload, because you would have to pollinate every female with every male and grow out seeds from all of the different combinations to find out which mother an father are the best match. It's not to produce plants for further breeding, just to test every female without having to test seeds from each female crossed to every male (exponentially more seeds would need to be planted this way). Can't make it more simple than that. If you don't have enough space to self a handful of females and test a couple seeds, you certainly don't have enough room to pollinate every male to every female to test out all possible combinations, which is the conventional way of breeding
thatonedude
Member
thank yoy stankybeamer. that was easy to understand and answered my questions
StankyBeamer
Professional A$$hole
Any time. Be careful, making seeds is a most addictive hobby. As someone said earlier, harvesting and sampling something u made, from pollen to seed to bud, is one of the most gratifying experiences a smoker can have. Post updates on your journey, I'd love to see how it goes. Also, get florel growth regulator and reverse those males in flower. Seeing a male develope pistils and calyxes is invaluable to the selection process
dabass2dark
Member
New to breeding also!
New to breeding also!
Hey, Im also pretty new to seed making, and happen to be in the middle of doing my first pollination. Im creating a back cross of blueberry by taking a blue male and flowering it along side a blueberry female. Ideally I would have picked the best of all females and crossed it with the best male, but given the price of seed packets I decided it would be cheaper to just make my own seed stock to choose from using the first mom and dad I found. Then from there, pick the best mom to do further back crosses or out crosses. I feel like the best new strains are created from using good quality genetics only. I totally am against selfing strains, and using chemicals to reverse females and males..let nature do all the work!
So like you mentioned, I would be hoping for a Durban male! From there take the durban male pollen and dust it on your favorite Hindu kush phenotype and favorite hash bomb pheno. Then flower out some of those seeds from both crosses to see if the females show anything desirable.
If your ultimate goal was to create a Hindu x Hash bomb cross. I would then pick a male from the cross that showed the best results and dust it on either of the original hindu or hash bomb.
As far as books to recommend, "The cannabis breeders bible" seems pretty comprehensive but sort of an advanced read depending on how deep you want to dive into breeding. Best of luck, hope you create something magical to share with the world!
New to breeding also!
Hey, Im also pretty new to seed making, and happen to be in the middle of doing my first pollination. Im creating a back cross of blueberry by taking a blue male and flowering it along side a blueberry female. Ideally I would have picked the best of all females and crossed it with the best male, but given the price of seed packets I decided it would be cheaper to just make my own seed stock to choose from using the first mom and dad I found. Then from there, pick the best mom to do further back crosses or out crosses. I feel like the best new strains are created from using good quality genetics only. I totally am against selfing strains, and using chemicals to reverse females and males..let nature do all the work!
So like you mentioned, I would be hoping for a Durban male! From there take the durban male pollen and dust it on your favorite Hindu kush phenotype and favorite hash bomb pheno. Then flower out some of those seeds from both crosses to see if the females show anything desirable.
If your ultimate goal was to create a Hindu x Hash bomb cross. I would then pick a male from the cross that showed the best results and dust it on either of the original hindu or hash bomb.
As far as books to recommend, "The cannabis breeders bible" seems pretty comprehensive but sort of an advanced read depending on how deep you want to dive into breeding. Best of luck, hope you create something magical to share with the world!
I did a little pollen chucking this spring and the seeds I made are now F7 because the parents have been worked so much to get a stable plant and I am not looking for Phenos. My question is are the seeds I made more acclimated to the shorter growing in Colorado? I was under the impression I would have to work the plants a lot to get a short season Pheno.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Ive read that it only takes a gen or two to start to acclimate, but there is info on that somewhere in this site.
S
sourpuss
Little tip from dj short.... the female dictates the type flavour aroma and the male dictates the amount of flavour aroma.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Yeah dj also liked to take the indica as male and sativa as female, while he said many contemporaries in those days were doing the opposite.
Being new to trying to make seeds other than simple f2s, this thread is just what I needed, thanks to all who have added.
This little gem of information is exactly what I came in looking for.
thatonedude
Member
well right now im having difficulty getting any cuttings to root. ive tried both peat and coir plugs with and without domes. they all either dampened off or used up all of the nutrients in their leaves before roots formed. ive tried the bubbler method and while they still look healthy after 3 weeks some are starting to turn to mush and dampen off. so I cleaned everything with bleach. started over and added a couple of drops of bleach to the res. these pure indicas don't like to root. I may have to just reveg the plants after I harvest. they are 3 weeks into flower now so I don't know if air layering is still a viable option.
