Can LED's do a pound or better per harvest?

[PetFlora]

As badass as that light appears to be, PetFlora, I gotta say I can't imagine ever bringing myself to pay $270 for a 77w light. Jeez, at that price point I might as well spend the extra amount required to purchase the Solar Flare 220 or something similar. Which, is exactly what I'm hoping to buy at some point. I keep reading awesome reviews about those.

But yeah, $270 for a 77w light sounds unreasonable when I'm getting results that exceeded my expectations from a $100 light with probably about the same wattage. You know, I think I'm going to go buy a Kill-A-Watt meter today so I can find out once and for all how many actual watts my Apollo UFO uses.

Thanks for the link though. I must say I like the idea of how they mixed white leds with reds. That makes it look less like a neon beer sign, lol.

You're hung up on $/w which is senseless

The parameter to go by is Lumens/PARw

Most likely the A51 has 3xs the lumens, if not more

Do as you will

 

[hush]

You're hung up on $/w which is senseless

Nope. I'm hung up on spending $270 on something that does the same thing as something that costs $100. I'm just being realistic here. Dollars per watt is a silly thing to consider, in my opinion, which is why I've never thought of things that way. But dollars per gram is another thing entirely. The light you linked is roughly 3x more expensive than the el-cheapo UFOs. So my question would be, is the end result of those lights going to provide a harvest that is 3x heavier than the UFO harvest?

I guess I'm just a simple man with simple needs.

 

[mohammed romney]

Using your logic then $1-2/w are likely to be mediocre

Somewhere, somehow, someone started the dollar/watt as a quantifiable base line

Like many things dealing with leds, it is bad advice

Bro, in your statements above you're not using my logic. In fact you aren't using logic at all.

My point is that <1$ a watt lamps work great not mediocre.

using a watt/dollars equation for lamps that deliver similar outcomes is indeed a useful metric.

Your "bad advice" pronouncement is nothing more than your opinion, syntax errors included.

 

[OIBI]

With cobs you can build an 50 watt lamp with less than four major components from 3 venders.

CPU heatsink with a peak power displacement of 75watts or more. ebay or amazon.
Bridgelux vero 18 and pico EZ-mate wire from digikey
Meanwell LPC-60-1400 from jameco
and a Meanwell 12v constant voltage power supply from jameco.
Arctic alumia thermal paste from ebay, amazon, or newegg.

A vero 18 is about 45-50 watts of power and output about 4500 lum. Rough calculations yeilds about $55 for the first light before shipping and $45 for each additional light up to about 10 total. Right around the $1/W mark.

Good preliminary results using cobs on other forums.

 

[FLAgreenthumb]

I know for a fact that a pound cannot be achieved from a single UFO fixture, lol

I am subbed to your 2x2 solarflare grow and I have really enjoyed watching the success youve had in a small space...
Just wanted to direct you to the Apache Tech AT600 it draws 660w..
they have a new model now the AT660 which draws 740ish...
Check out this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8b_xkNc-o&list=UUkuwpcjAkAGLLqNJi6MOEOw&index=12

 

[PetFlora]

It seems some are confused by my answer

Not all led watts are the same

A 3w 80 cri led is not the same as a 3 w 90 cri

Ditto lumens per watt

The unit of measure that is important for mj growers is umoles/m^/sec

This measurement is avoided by most cheap panel makers, and lied about by others

It costs $$$ to provide a minimum of 500 umoles at the perimeter of the grow

Currently the price is > $3.00 per watt for leds that collectively do that, BUT, such offerings will run circles around the typical $1/w offerings, which must be made with low grade parts.

You don't need high priced diodes as much as you need high quality heat sinks, drivers and fans

There's much more to it than this, but...

Currently a high quality ~ 400w+ panel CAN produce a pound, assuming the strain will produce it and the grower has game

 

[HydroGrowLeds]

You're hung up on $/w which is senseless

The parameter to go by is Lumens/PARw

Most likely the A51 has 3xs the lumens, if not more

Do as you will

Lumens and PAR have almost no correlation. We have tested countless LEDs using lumens and PAR for measuring. The 660nm LED we tested with the highest lumen output, likewise had one of the lowest PAR outputs of any. On the other hand the 660nm LED with the highest PAR output, was only average on the lumen scale.

Anyone who still uses lumens to tell you how powerful a LED grow light is, is already lost and confused and telling you this by using lumens. We all grow plants, not human eyes - so unless the reading is PAR it means almost nothing when you talk about grow lights.

 

[HydroGrowLeds]

You don't need high priced diodes as much as you need high quality heat sinks, drivers and fans

The difference from one heat sink to the next with a COB LED (ss these run the hottest) is up to 30%. Yet regardless of what flat type of heat sink you use (copper or aluminum) or it's thickness and overall size, unless you're using a heat sink like the one designed the variance is less than 10% across them all. We spent more than 1 year testing heat sinks, vapor chambers, peltier coolers, water coolers, heat pipes, copper, aluminum, flat, round, etc... and can say without a doubt that there is little variance from one heat sink to the next as long as you have the airflow.

Now when it comes to LEDs, price does not determine quality or output. In fact it has nothing to do with it! Some of the most expensive LEDs (from Cree, Osram, Luxeon) have some of the poorest umol outputs on the market, while Epistar LEDs from Taiwan are 1/4 the cost with twice the output. There are only 3 brands of LEDs we have tested that are notably better than all other LEDs on the market, which fit within the same 20% margin. The 3 brands we have tested consistently deliver at least double the PAR per watt of the "standard". In our opinion it is far more important to select the right LEDs as these will have more of an impact on the PAR output and light intensity, than swapping a 1/4" heat sink for a 3/8", or stepping from a 30CFM fan to 35CFM.

The LEDs are the most important part of your LED grow light. Everything else is secondary.

 

[tenthirty]

HGL, Please post your data.

 

[BluesHarp]

This is all very interesting and clearly no cut and dry answer.....

 

[HydroGrowLeds]

Hi TenThirty! I was hoping someone would ask us to post our data.

But rather than simply posting Data, I will do a video for all of you so you can see the results in real-time. I just don't want to post something that people will question. So give me a day or two while I get everything setup and create a make-shift light sphere, and I'll show you in real-time how Cree, Osram, and others compare.

 

[HydroGrowLeds]

Sorry everyone, I went to grab the Li-Cor PAR meter today and the sensor for it was not attached. I've been told it was sent in just over a week ago for repair. There is no word yet on when we will have it back so we can do the living testing for you. As soon as it gets back I will let you know and get right on it!

 

[Boyd Crowder]

any updates on that test ?

 

[PetFlora]

LED grow lights have much higher amount of USE-ABLE light per watt than HPS or MH indoor grow lights and they last longer - up to 10 years in fact. Now I am not saying that a 90W LED grow light can ever match the lumen output of a 400W HID bulb, however, they are equal when it comes to the amount of absorb-able light they emit. Few people that they have experienced less than optimal results from their LED grow lights (and nowhere near what the hype says is possible). Without fail the number one reason for failure is that they bought cheap, discount LED grow lights that were horribly underpowered. The cheap LED grow lights on the market are ridiculously underpowered. On Ebay right now, you can find dozens of LED grow light panels in which each individual LED light is rated at 0.06 Watts. So in a typical 225 LED panel of red and blue, you end up with a total power consumption of about 14 Watts. Sounds great right? Not so fast - you see, these units are good for maybe 1 square foot at a distance of less than 6 inches. Does that describe your growing space? Not likely.

Take a typical growing space of 5x5 feet or 25 square feet . . . if you bought the above light, you would need at least 12 of these units to effectively cover the space. And that is assuming you don't want to grow anything over a few inches tall.

As a rule, you should never buy an LED grow light unless each LED has an output of 1 Watt. In the above example, you would need only one 180W LED grow light to cover 25 square feet for vegetative growth and it would have the power to penetrate a leafy canopy if growing taller plants (in a 3x3).

A good Source for LED LIGHTS good quality is http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/default.asp

I mostly agree. Not sold on only needing 180w to cover 5 x 5 for veg, or that diodes has an output of 1w, unless you mean 1w MINIMUM.

Perhaps if the 180w actual consists of 6 lights/panels @ 30w to evenly distribute the light, you MIGHT veg fairly well

Anyway, watts are not the defining criteria.

While 50w/sq ft is considered 'optimal' beyond early veg, the spectrum and intensity of those watts is important, no critical to maximizing photosynthesis.

If you want the market to change you must demand useful data according to the plants needs, which is basically a balanced PAR spectrum, measured in umoles/m*/sec across the entire footprint

I did get 3/4 pound growing 2 plants under a BML SPYDR 600, which was not optimized for cannabis, nor does it have anywhere near optimal umole intensity, but it had 3w diodes, probabLy running at ~53%= ~333W

Requirements to have reasonable control include a minimum of 2 switches- one for veg, the second to kick in once buds set adding ~ 30% more 600-625 reds: ~ 5% 730nm would be icing on the cake

Amare Technologies and I are in agreement on these issues, which is why I am using his lights now

Drop by my thread, now ~ 4th week of flower

 

[Dion]

revive!

 

[Arf]

Here is a harvest video from Growmau5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT5ivLc3ZFY

He gets 1,627gm. from 850W that's 1.9gm/Watt. using CXB3590 3500K LEDs.

Scale that down to 454gm which is about a pound and you would need less than 250Watts to get that.

 

[Koondense]

With total 225W of 3950 3000K CB(6x) I got 400g on my first ever indoor grow.
Not a pound but close.
I'm sure I could get out quite more in less time with a proper high yielding variety.

 

[Arf]

With total 225W of 3950 3000K CB(6x) I got 400g on my first ever indoor grow.
Not a pound but close.
I'm sure I could get out quite more in less time with a proper high yielding variety.

How big a grow space, and was it soil or hydro?

 

[Koondense]

How big a grow space, and was it soil or hydro?

120x60, organic soil mix (2x 18l, 1x 11l).

 

[EcoNepenthe]

With Cree COB It Is Possible!!

With Cree COB It Is Possible!!

My first LED DIY is 600 watts based on Green Genes DIY 200 Watt Cree CXB tutorial. First yield 12.5 dry ounces 8 plants. Just did a Youtube https://youtu.be/J9QtuAsymig

Stay Safe!!
Success w/ya Grow!!!
Eco