Growstones review - Ebb & Grow / Ebb & flow. - Worse than Hydroton..?

[Boozer]

I recently started a grow using "growstones" which claim to "hold more air & water" than Hydroton.

Well, since they hold mroe air (o2) we should technically be able to keep the watering schedule the same as in Hydroton. Not the case. These growstones were retaining so much water during a 2-3 times a day flood (that hydroton would take) that it was drowning my roots, causing tons of problems - it took me a month to figure out why my plants looked like they had a MG, FE / calcium deficiency with super light green leafs and dark veins, with extremely stunted growth. OVERWATERING.

The solution is to lower the level of the flood. How this helps, I have yet to see. So now the bottom half of my plant is going to be drowning but the top half will be ok because of capilary action?

If anyone has used these in an ebb & grow setup, please tell me:
What is the watering schedule for clones. Where should I put the water level?

How is this more beneficial than watering in Hydroton which obviously allows more O2 to the roots after a flood. I like how clean my rez stays, but this growth is completely inferior to the same system using Hydroton as medium.

 

[Boozer]

bottom half of root zone***

 

[growingcrazy]

Have you checked to see what these do to your ph? I have never noticed a problem but a friend that was using growstones on the bottom of his pots in a wicking system noticed a big change in ph when he went to the growstones. I haven't heard or saw any other problems myself, just curious..

Peace
GC

 

[Boozer]

The PH in my rez has been stable, so I don't think theres any issues there. I keep my water temps at 68, use myko and pondzyme which helps keep pathogens out. Ph hasn't been a problem, its just how saturated these things get.

 

[PetFlora]

These roots are from top feed F & D

Medium is polished ornamental stone from Dollar Store

Easy to clean and reuse


View attachment 282073 View attachment 282074

 

[Boozer]

Top feed F&D? A drip system?

 

[stasis]

I'm surprised. They ought to be able to do better than that..! The plus is that it is made out of recycled materials. But, if the pH is off that;s bad.

 

[PetFlora]

Top feed F&D? A drip system?

Not exactly

Hydro Halo rings are fed by a 160 gph pump. More like a shower head on low

Lots of pics in my threads

 

[gmanwho]

you are having other problems leading you to think they are over watered. as long as they drain properly every flood, your not overwatering. In the right conditions You could run top drip 24/7 over growstones, or hydroton.

You could be having issues with nute strength, ph, water temps, lighting. air circulation. bugs.

let me ask you this, u say you want to flood at a lower height, this could be your issue. Did you use a rooting medium like rockwool, root riots, anything other then bare rooted ez-cloner??? if you did root in a medium , that medium needs to be few inches above top flood height. If the rooting medium stays to wet then that maybe your problem. When the rooting medium stays to wet it keeps the stem wet. Roots tend to not wanna search out of that rooting medium.

try to make sure the main stalk area is above the max flood height. stalks dont like to be wet either. You want the plant stalk or medium above the flood height, an roots dangle down into flood area. You may have to hand water a few times a day till the roots reach the flood height as well.

Growstones kill fungus knats an other larva type insects. No more fungus knats for me. Growstones anchor the plants root zone much better then hydroton.

ive been using hydroton for 5+ years. Grow stones 6 months. I like growstones better. And they weigh less an farrrrrrrrr more plant support


Grow stones when new out of bag will keep raising your ph. My target ph in veg is usually 6.0 . the growstones at first could raise the ph to 6.4 -6.7 after 2-3 floods. In veg i flood either every 6 or 4 hrs. flooding every 6hours when young. every 4 hrs during veg. then flower i flood every 3 hrs.

I think you got something else causing your issues...

b-safe

 

[LSWM]

Growstones definitely hold more water than hydroton. Increase the time between floods and you should be fine.

I use it to root cuts, as well as very early veg and I flood to waste 1 per day from cut until roots fill the bottom of the cups to transplant. Once roots start to fill the cup I'm sure I could increase to twice per day and get increased growth, but unless you've got large plants with lots of roots 3 times a day may be too often.

 

[gmanwho]

Growstones definitely hold more water than hydroton. Increase the time between floods and you should be fine.

I use it to root cuts, as well as very early veg and I flood to waste 1 per day from cut until roots fill the bottom of the cups to transplant. Once roots start to fill the cup I'm sure I could increase to twice per day and get increased growth, but unless you've got large plants with lots of roots 3 times a day may be too often.

lswm.. to root do you use the larger growstones or the powder? humidity dome needed? Im looking to change my backup rooting medium. My ezcloner is first, but i always run some sort of backup rooters latley. I dont like rooting plugs in flood hydro systems. or even top drip for that matter. they can stay to wet.

i may have to give this a go. all the signs are there that it would work. air to water ratio. growstones kinda remind me of perlite.

could you give some detail as how to you clone in growstones. containers u use, hood? temps & u use heatmats? ph,lighting nutes etc.....

b-safe

 

[LSWM]

I use the small ones for both cloning and coco amendment, although I'm beginning to love straight coco, no stones added. It's the "soil aerator" kind with the orange label.

I use 8 oz clear cups with 3 holes drilled into the bottom then wrapped in plastic or tape. I have never used a dome for cloning, but I do occasionally lose a cut or two to too intense of light/heat too low RH.

If I keep things consistent at ~75*F 30-50% RH then I get roots spiraling in the bottom of the cups within 21 days. Usually all have started root nubs at ~10-14 days. No heat mat, no ph, just a t5 ~18-24 inches away until they root, then I drop the t5 right on top of them. I've also rooted them on the floor underneath other plants under HPS, or even just sitting in a bathroom with the light on. They don't need much to get those roots going, but once they do, they won't develop unless you give them some light.

I use straight tap water at room temp until roots show then they get the same nute mix everything else gets. Jack's + CalNit in RO @1.0-1.2 EC. As I said before I flood to waste as well. I've thought about setting up a recirculating system and automated drip but haven't really gotten around to it. When I left for 4 days recently I just set all the cups in ~1/2 inch of nute solution and came back and all the water was dried up but they were still healthy. If your tap isn't chlorinated you may want to look into adding some back. I add chlorine to my bulk RO res every few days. A little goes a LONG way but needs to be added regularly. This helps keep roots disinfected during their early rooting process.

Probably not the fastest method but it has been the most consistent for me. With coco and rockwool I had problems with over/under watering. With the growstones, which I assume work similar to perlite, I water once per day and they root. No questions asked. No fiddling or guess work.

I also tend to make new cups every so often because #1 they are cheap from the dollar store, and #2 I seem to get better results from new cups, although other variables could be responsible here as well, but I'm sure washing them and disinfecting would accomplish the same thing.

 

[gmanwho]

When I left for 4 days recently I just set all the cups in ~1/2 inch of nute solution and came back and all the water was dried up but they were still healthy.

Before you left the above quote i was thinking this....

I was thinking of using the normal black plastic trays that are meant to hold seedling type mediums. The ones with like like 50 squares in them, then that tray sits in another water tray. Add a heating mat underneath, level the trays, add about a 1/4-12inch of water in the tray. thermometer. set the dome on it. the growstone soil aerator version should be perfect. nice low wick action to it. like perlite.

I think the growstone (soil aerator version) would work correctly for cloning.

BUt i think the original post that boozer spoke of are the larger growstones. they could be anywhere from 1/4 inch to inch, inch and a half in size. Now those WOULD NOT be good to clone in. But may work in a full size solo cup.

Because the larger growstones have so much airspace inbetween them i would find them a perfect medium to top drip an would be hard to get overwater. Unless there was high temps poor drainage or nutes with heavy organic material.


Thanks for taking the time to post how you clone in the growstone soil aerator version. I am going to try it... cloning is my worst area of growing. on that I will say Dip&grow at 5x dilution is the best cloning solution i have found to date..


How you like the jacks hydro + cal nit.??????? I have 2 small tubs sitting here. i use GH micro & bloom ratios. so its synthetic nutes just like jacks. but will save me sooooooooo much $ in the long run. i run micro & bloom nutes with organic additives, benes an zymes additives. Im hammering thru bottles of cal mag an the micro an bloom nutes...


b-safe

 

[gmanwho]

wsm... . your ec conversion at .7 ?? so 1.0ec is 700ppm. or is it .5?? i only have multiple ppm meters. i actually been thing of buying the hanna meters HI83215, an then maybe the HI83225. first one reads NPK, 2nd one reads sulfates calcium & maganesium...

b-safe

 

[LSWM]

I don't wanna completely steal the thread so I'll just leave these pics here of my clones and we can take the Jack's discussion to PM, or feel free to post in my thread in my sig.

EC has no conversion. PPM is converted from EC. 1.0 ec @ .5 conversion is 500 ppm. .7 conversion is 700ppm.

 

[Boozer]

It is overwatering. Veg clones 500ppm, 5.5-5.8ph very stable, no issue with rise on the stones, 68 water temps,60-65rh, sealed room, 75-78temp, plenty of airflow no dead spots. I had a fungus gnat infestation from all the water they were holding, once I dropped down to one flood a day and dropped the flood zone to barely hit the bottom of the media they disappeared, plants started to come back to life, but not nearly as vigorous as hydroton.

Hydroton gives me way faster growth, fuzzier roots, allows me to water more times per day and keep metabolism up. If you can only flood once a day in ebb flow, there's a problem. I get up to 5 or 6

I do like less dust, but that's about it. I wish they would make a less water retentive option.

 

[gmanwho]

ya looks to me like mine are holding to much water too!!!. i guess mine must be special grwostones that allow to flood every couple hours.

 

[LSWM]

It is overwatering. Veg clones 500ppm, 5.5-5.8ph very stable, no issue with rise on the stones, 68 water temps,60-65rh, sealed room, 75-78temp, plenty of airflow no dead spots. I had a fungus gnat infestation from all the water they were holding, once I dropped down to one flood a day and dropped the flood zone to barely hit the bottom of the media they disappeared, plants started to come back to life, but not nearly as vigorous as hydroton.

Hydroton gives me way faster growth, fuzzier roots, allows me to water more times per day and keep metabolism up. If you can only flood once a day in ebb flow, there's a problem. I get up to 5 or 6

I do like less dust, but that's about it. I wish they would make a less water retentive option.

All that means is that you need more root/plant mass for the amount of flooding you do, or use a smaller pot.

With Coco you can drip 20 times a day if the plant is large enough and the pot small enough. That doesn't mean I should take my fresh transplant and hit it that many times a day.

Just reduce floods to once per day until you get good plant mass and root mass, then add another flood and see how the plants respond. If you veg them long enough, or use small enough pots, I guarantee you could flood 6-8 times per day no problem with growstones. The lower flood level may help with your current problem but I would certainly be aiming to flood all the way to the top, and I think you should do that before adding anymore floods. After they are liking the higher flood level then add another cycle in a few days or a week later. Just let the plants talk to you and see how they respond.

 

[Boozer]

I'm able to water more often with hydroton and get faster growth in veg, instead of having to slow down my schedule in order for the plants to catch up and be able to take more floods with growstones. Not saying you can't get results with growstones. You can get results with anything, hydroton was just much faster for me, and I can keep the same size pots and not worry about touching the flood level. More tailoring for slower results doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[Boozer]

Gman, how often did you flood at clone? Where did you keep your water level? I would guess not more than once a day and your level low - otherwise please help me understand why 3 times a day flooding two inches below the top of my media almost destroyed my plants, same schedule as all my other grows in hydroton.. no other variables aside from the media. I'm legitimately looking for help if anyone's found faster growth rates in the stones.