The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[milkyjoe]

Got some leaf closeups? Is it top leaves that are the problem (ca)?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

back to the whole root disease trip though , if the roots aren't feeding the soil because they're sick then Ca isn't getting transolcated to newest growth and that's why the top 1/3 especially once flowering ensues,,huge nutrient load goes on em at this time...so you first need to cure the funk on the roots ...

Did you send in any samples for testing yet? I can give you a lab that will work with you if you would like.

I fast forwarded past the part where fungi and bacteria fall out of balance creating the conditions for the ensuing problems.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

yea all samples submitted last week but because of labor day i won't have any real test results until tuesday at the earliest. so until then i am in a complete guessing game but thanks to you guys forming up a plan of action. my issue is definitely coming from root disease probably exacerbated by the high PH and imbalance in soil.

so my immediate plan is foliar action, need to get CA into these plants the fastest and most efficient way possible. would cal25 be better than regular calcium, wondering if the additional triacontanol would be good to bad. i also think i need to get a little N back into these ladies.

yes milkyjoe all the problems are up in the tops of the plants, the entire side is still green its just the crowns on these sick plants that are showing issues. heres a pic i posted earlier of the sick OG kush plant with low brix at 8.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

CLASSIC root disease...Either hemp canker or fusarium. My garden had a few plants that looked like this in 2011 but it was still my best year to date.

Next time I see you I will tell you some trade names of products that you can mix in before planting that will keep this from happening.

 

[milkyjoe]

That is ca. Can you get quickly albion or jh biotech ca? If not cano3 would be my choice. I do not like ca25 cause of the cl.

Don't overdo the ph...6.8 is where a lot of bob wilts blueberry fields run

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Any one use any green houses from any one besides Envirotech/Rimol ???

Curious what your experience was.

 

[Cep]

hey cep do you do your own tissue and sap analysis? or are you sending samples into somewhere every week.

where can i get this done?

A&L does it pretty cheep and fast. Unlike soil testing the procedure is more straight forward.

A heads up though. I don't disclose that the samples are cannabis. You should prob just go with whatever place backyard suggests if the are willing to do it knowingly.

 

[Luther Burbank]

Prop415, can't offer much but moral and reference support. Let me know if you want the two pages from Hemp Diseases on those two issues.

 

[milkyjoe]

Yesprop...10 grams per gallon cano3 is 400 ppm N and 500 ppm ca. Believe it or not that is safe. Double that may be but I would test it first

 

[Organic Grower]

CLASSIC root disease...Either hemp canker or fusarium. My garden had a few plants that looked like this in 2011 but it was still my best year to date.

Next time I see you I will tell you some trade names of products that you can mix in before planting that will keep this from happening.

That is ca. Can you get quickly albion or jh biotech ca? If not cano3 would be my choice. I do not like ca25 cause of the cl.

Don't overdo the ph...6.8 is where a lot of bob wilts blueberry fields run

What's the final verdict here? Canker or calcium?

 

[Organic Grower]

Has anyone used a sulfur spray to combat PM into flower? And if so how late into flower?

 

[Cep]

What's the final verdict here? Canker or calcium?

Calcium because of the canker. That's why Milky's suggestion was both foliar and drench.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

The canker blocks the uptake of water / nutrients because its mycelium grows inside the stem. it's a bitch.

Contans WG is what you want to fight it. You need to mix it in during blending in the Spring. It's too late to fight it once it's in the plant and you're seeing signs like prop is. Just expect to subtract 10-30% yield on the plant depending on how progressive it gets.

Comes in a 25 lb sack and its 15 or 25 dollars a LB I haven't bought any in a few seasons. Another thing that will help you NOT get hemp canker is this ,

AS SOON as your'e done pulling off your B crop , pull the stalks out and burn them and bring in new soil and pile it on top of your old soil and leave it on top, doesn't take much. I forget the exact amount to spread over the top but Sam published it for us in Hemp Pests and Diseases.

 

[Bulldog420]

Was reading through the highlights of the thread, and picked up on this gem of information from Butte. Seems like something that is lost in this thread, nobody tops the plants anymore. I also like how he defines "Large Plants" that maybe we should go back to. We seem to be getting caught up on 12ft tall or bust attitude. Just thought I would share.

Hello all

Let’s just jump right in...

Lighting. I run lights in my garden till the second or third week of June. I went to this site: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html and figured the day length for the solstice in my area. Once I had this number I matched the current day to that length and put the extra lighting on the morning side. If I remember, the lights came on around 4:30 am and went off once the sun was up. There are less people awake in the early hours versus the night so I felt this was a little more low key.

Here’s a shot from June 7th showing the spacing of the bulbs. I use 40w cf’s roughly 15-20’ apart. I’ve not seemed to need any more light than that. Installation is smooth using twist lock light sockets on two strands of wire. I plug it into a gfi plug and forget about it. Personally, I feel lights are more important with clones versus seeds, but this is only from observation. I've also witnessed plants pulled out of serious flowering with the use of concentrated lighting. Perhaps double the density you see here and left on for, I believe, 18 hours.

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Training. In the above picture you can still see the 2’ diameter rings we use for initial training. This stage gives us an even plant and is useful for setting up what will be main support branches. This next shot shows when we usually put the next ring on. Timing in all of these steps is critical. Do it too late and you’re struggling to get the plant in the right position being able to train the tops where you want them. I pointed out some of the initial training that was done when the ring went on.

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Here’s the same plant 17 days later.

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The astute observer will notice there is now a “cap” on the concrete wire support ring. These are cut 5’x5’ and fit nicely over the rings. Again, timing is key. Placing the caps on when the plants are at the stage below ensures you can put the tops in a nice even canopy.

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As the plants continue to fill the space, we come in with 5/8” rebar cut to 10’ lengths and more hortinova. In these shots we did not use t-posts at the bases of the rebar, but did this last year for more support.

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10 days later. It would have been much harder to put the netting on at this point. When the growing tips get 12-18" beyond the existing netting, we come in with another layer lightly draped over the outside of the plant and allow it to grow through that layer. The timing on this additional netting is dictated by plant growth.

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Here’s a shot from this year’s garden probably the day we put on the netting as the bottoms still are not fastened to the rings. Also notice how the netting is only loosely around the plants. We're looking to have the plants grow through the netting, not be forced through.

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For me, one of the keys to big plants (in this case higher yield, not just super tall or wide) is an even canopy with lots and lots of budsites. We let our plants veg to three or four feet and then take a large set of tip cuttings off the plant. 6-8” from all the main leader shoots. This creates a much more ball shaped plant. This first picture is a plant with a more traditional, small topping approach. You can see how there are fewer large growing tips than the next picture. That plant had a larger set of cuttings taken from the tips. It’s my feeling that you are changing the balance of growth auxins by removing that material.

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We also prune up the insides to remove spindly growth and vegetation not getting good light. The improvement in ventilation inside the plant as well as the majority of growth going to quality budsites is well worth the effort...and it does take maintenance!

Well, that’s all for now. Perhaps we should go into soil prep next? I’m mixing mine now for this summer...

Happy gardening - Butte

 

[epicorchard]

Was reading through the highlights of the thread, and picked up on this gem of information from Butte. Seems like something that is lost in this thread, nobody tops the plants anymore. I also like how he defines "Large Plants" that maybe we should go back to. We seem to be getting caught up on 12ft tall or bust attitude. Just thought I would share.

Thanks for the info!

This year i ran one patch with cfl's over each plant in ground from may 22 to june 10th. Obviously no signs of flower.

At another patch, I ran the same genetics in the ground may 28th with no supplemental light.... again no signs of flower.

I'm sure this differs from season to season, but that was my experience this year.

As far as plant size go, I like to look at the plant as a solar panel. Since the sun moves, it makes sense that the more bud sights you have that receive full sun all day, the higher your yield should be.

Seems as if plants that are taller then they are wide (tall oval shape), would have half the plant receiving morning light, and the other half of the plant would be shaded. As the sun passes over the plant, I imagine the reverse occurs.

This is why personally I go for a plant that is wider than it is tall. About 12-15' diameter. While topping is one method to create this effect, I think super cropping and LST is more effective.

 

[Bulldog420]

I have been looking for another post of Tom's, but he recommends topping like this also. He says it really sets the root system of the plant, and helps promote overall health at the end of the season. If I find it I will post it up also.

 

[epicorchard]

Can we talk about N for a minute? Based on the 4bags of stutzmans, and the the fact that my soil is mostly mushroom compost made from horse manure, I'm thinking I can switch to a lucas formula and cut back on my nitrogen now that I'm entering day 35-45 of flower.

Currently I feed with AN Bloom schedule once a week. I'm also brewing a tea once a week of 3gal fish hydrolysate, 3gal shrimp hydrolysate, 3 gal liquid kelp, and 1000 ml hi brix mol. It aerates for three days with a tea bag filled with 1,000 ml Roots Organic EWC, 1,000 ml Dr Earth Live Probiotic, and 1,000 ml Roots Organic Phospho sea bird guano. All this bubbles in a 275 gallon totes. Each plant gets about 12 gallons of tea, and then 12 gallons of AN every week.

I know most of you guys in here take a more organic approach, but at what point do you guys start cutting back on N?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I let my plants get their N from the atmosphere , and it's regulated by microorganisms...I'll go outside and try and have a conversation with them and see how they see fit to regulate things.

 

[ponobegone]

I'm taking my n a little longer this year after seeing how my dep went and final product turned out. All my n comes from fish hydrosolate, vital earth's 5 9 4 and the live ewc in my drenches. I'm also top dressing with need seed meal, fish bone meal and the crab meal. I'm switching to 0 13 0 in my drench on my earliest girls this week. For maybe the next 3 or 4 drenches, then back to the 5 9 4 for a couple drenches. I grew a lot of flowers in the garden this year and used different guano top dressings to feed and the 5 9 4 made them explode with blooms and color everytime no doubt. I have a couple of small plants I may foliar with ppd tonight just to see how they turn out. BTW that stihl backpack sprayer is freaking awesome I highly recommend it. Nice find bulldog, and like that recipe epic, which hydrosolate do you use? I use the Pacific gro but I bet it's all the same

 

[ponobegone]

The second trunk got a soft spot in it, I treated with an actinovate paste on the trunk covered with glacial rock dust. These are ficus trees btw