Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[rives]

No, I use the Bell Lighting reflectors. I don't know if Cycloptics has a vented version on the market yet, but they didn't when I was putting things together.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you watch eBay, there are some killer deals on the 315 ballasts at times if you know what to look for.

The ballast can be packaged in a pretty small enclosure because of it's low heat generation - they are barely warm to the touch after several hours of operation. A transformer is not required if you are set up to run 240v.

I run a vented reflector and my grow space is actually cooler than when I was running LEDs - while the LEDs run cooler than an HID lamp, they don't lend themselves well to containing and evacuating the heat. It's a pretty simple matter to change out the lamp socket in an existing reflector to the PGZ18 required for the 315.

Advanced sells the mogul base version of the 315, so changing the socket isn't required.

 

[rives]

Advanced sells the mogul base version of the 315, so changing the socket isn't required.

True, but there appears to be only the 4k lamp available in the Edison version, and it is single-jacketed. If you are going to go to the effort of swapping over to the 315, then you might as well have the opportunity to avail yourself of the various lamp options - single or double-jacketed for enclosed or open usage respectively, the Agro, 3k & 4K versions, etc. Also, the PGZ18 socket is a substantial step forward as far as lamp positioning and eliminating the problems with under- or over-torquing the lamp into the socket.

 

[Jhhnn]

True, but there appears to be only the 4k lamp available in the Edison version, and it is single-jacketed. If you are going to go to the effort of swapping over to the 315, then you might as well have the opportunity to avail yourself of the various lamp options - single or double-jacketed for enclosed or open usage respectively, the Agro, 3k & 4K versions, etc. Also, the PGZ18 socket is a substantial step forward as far as lamp positioning and eliminating the problems with under- or over-torquing the lamp into the socket.

Advanced offers the CDM315/U/O/4K ED37 which is open rated-

http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com/l/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-elite-mw-mogul-base/928601175501_na/

Just sayin'. Makes it easy for people who aren't very technical, & the large format centers it well in common reflectors. Use a receptacle like this (or the other style) on the ballast-

http://www.hydroponics.net/i/249988

The reflector remains stock, plug & play. Just one way of looking at it.

Some of the claims around the 315 are ridiculous, unfortunately-

http://denver.craigslist.org/grq/4550337052.html

"yields the same as a 1000w setup"

~$490, btw.

 

[Hillbilly419]

BUMP

 

[jomills1]

I'm wondering if this ballast would be good enough to use with a CMH.

http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Hortic...DI2C/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A2WRS4X4C0GMOQ

cord & socket as suggested by Jhhnn http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134821

If I'm missing something or not understanding correctly please be sure to correct me. I'm interested in running either a 330 or the 315. Could anyone explain to me what I would need beyond this to make that happen? I'm leaning more towards the 315 and if this is somehow a cheaper option (or more viable over the 330 for whatever reason), I'd be happy to do it. If I'm to buy either of these bulbs is there a suggested place to purchase them individually? Thanks to those that are taking the time to answer questions!

 

[non]

it'a a digital ballast so it won't run cmh(retrowhite) or cdm allstart(330w), for those you need switchable magnetic mh/hps ballast or just mh ballast for 330.

 

[LargePrime]

Advanced offers the http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...olor-cdm-elite-mw-mogul-base/928601175501_na/

Some of the claims around the 315 are ridiculous, unfortunately-

also that Bulb has a lot of blue and great spectrum. it does not last as long, but I am excited to see how they do in my testing

 

[LargePrime]

I'm trying to get the most future proof system. I understand that some are discontinued and don't wish to pursue those routes.

get the advancedtech 220$ combo kit. you get the new ballast and a pretty great bulb that you will probably love and it is all wired and ready to go. you can even call him and ask about putting it in whatever reflector you have. If you don't have 220V easy access get the stepup transformer too. That setup is pretty future proof, as that is the latest bulb tech and the mogul bulb has great blue your plants will love. And if there is great need, get the PGZ socket from somewhere and swap it on.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm wondering if this ballast would be good enough to use with a CMH.

http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Hortic...DI2C/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A2WRS4X4C0GMOQ

cord & socket as suggested by Jhhnn http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134821

If I'm missing something or not understanding correctly please be sure to correct me. I'm interested in running either a 330 or the 315. Could anyone explain to me what I would need beyond this to make that happen? I'm leaning more towards the 315 and if this is somehow a cheaper option (or more viable over the 330 for whatever reason), I'd be happy to do it. If I'm to buy either of these bulbs is there a suggested place to purchase them individually? Thanks to those that are taking the time to answer questions!

Negative. Magnetic ballasts don't change the frequency of the current to the lamp, just the voltage. It's always 60 Hz in N America. Consumer grade electronic/ digital ballasts operate in an entirely different way, provide very high frequency current to the lamp. CMH lamps can't withstand high frequency operation.

The 315 system uses an entirely different kind of electronic ballast, one that provides current at ~105 Hz. 315 components (other than cords & sockets) are not compatible with any other system.

Purchase individual pre-burned & tested 330 CMH lamps here-

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm

Lots of other places, too, not pre burned or tested-

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-232595-CDM330-ALLSTART-Halide/dp/B0061KR0UG

They also offer an inexpensive compatible magnetic MH ballast-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1FTW1TXT1P6H93ET2J9F

That ballast will not operate HPS lamps.

 

[Jhhnn]

get the advancedtech 220$ combo kit. you get the new ballast and a pretty great bulb that you will probably love and it is all wired and ready to go. you can even call him and ask about putting it in whatever reflector you have. If you don't have 220V easy access get the stepup transformer too. That setup is pretty future proof, as that is the latest bulb tech and the mogul bulb has great blue your plants will love. And if there is great need, get the PGZ socket from somewhere and swap it on.

Obviously a good choice, state of the art. OTOH, the 330 lamps will likely be available forever, given that there are umpteen gazillion compatible 400w MH systems currently in use in all kinds of commercial & industrial applications.

 

[jomills1]

Negative. Magnetic ballasts don't change the frequency of the current to the lamp, just the voltage. It's always 60 Hz in N America. Consumer grade electronic/ digital ballasts operate in an entirely different way, provide very high frequency current to the lamp. CMH lamps can't withstand high frequency operation.

The 315 system uses an entirely different kind of electronic ballast, one that provides current at ~105 Hz. 315 components (other than cords & sockets) are not compatible with any other system.

Purchase individual pre-burned & tested 330 CMH lamps here-

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm

Lots of other places, too, not pre burned or tested-

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-232595-CDM330-ALLSTART-Halide/dp/B0061KR0UG

They also offer an inexpensive compatible magnetic MH ballast-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1FTW1TXT1P6H93ET2J9F

That ballast will not operate HPS lamps.

Thank you. I'm thinking about purchasing that ballast, the 330 bulbs from advanced so they're tested, and the cord you mentioned earlier. Would I need anything beyond those to start my vert setup? I'm a new grower all around and trying to make the best investment. The 315 seems appealing because it's new, but 220 on the setup and then a step up transformer seems like it would be investing a lot more for a similar amount of power. Please feel free to corrrect me if I'm wrong.

 

[rives]

I think that you will be happy either way. The 330 is certainly a far cheaper introduction to the family's capabilities and if you grow on a personal level, you will produce more than you can possibly use with either one.

Personally, knowing what I know now, I would go with the 315 kit from Advanced and if you wanted to explore the other PGZ18 lamp's capabilities, spend 2 minutes swapping out a $12 socket. However, that perspective comes from having a whole damn storage room full of now-unused lighting equipment that I've tried over the years.

 

[jomills1]

I think that you will be happy either way. The 330 is certainly a far cheaper introduction to the family's capabilities and if you grow on a personal level, you will produce more than you can possibly use with either one.

Personally, knowing what I know now, I would go with the 315 kit from Advanced and if you wanted to explore the other PGZ18 lamp's capabilities, spend 2 minutes swapping out a $12 socket. However, that perspective comes from having a whole damn storage room full of now-unused lighting equipment that I've tried over the years.

This is the perspective that I'm looking for though! Would you be able to tell me which system I could build onto the easiest? I can't see myself ever going above 2-3 bulbs and with the 315 I figured a 1500 or a 2000w step up transformer as shown here

http://www.amazon.com/ELC-T-2000-2000-Watt-Converter-Transformer/dp/B00FHHVC1C/ref=pd_cp_e_3

I'd also like to ask why you ultimately sided with the 315 over 330 or a 400. Is it the newer technology involved? I know there's more to it and I'm hoping to get a glimpse of knowledge.

 

[jomills1]

After putting more thought into this I ought as well scrap the cfl's and use these for veg too while dimmed. I know I won't ever go above 3 lights total. Would I need to buy a new ballast for 195 from advanced tech each time I wanted to add a light?

 

[rives]

Any expansion that you do is going to require multiples of the original setup - each one will require it's own ballast and related gear. If you watch eBay, you will find good pricing sporadically on the ballasts - I think that the most that I have paid for one is $83, and I bought several more for as low as $40.

The transformer should work fine for what you want.

I didn't really even consider the 330 or 400 - I had run MH 400's many (many!) years ago and had been happy with the results, but when I started growing again a few years ago, I began chasing LED tech and trying to tune the light source better for our purposes. After working through a couple of generations of them, the cost and effort to build them was getting ridiculous, and about that time I caught wind of the prospective product that Cycloptics was planning. That caused me to start researching the CDM line, and when I found some gear on eBay, I was on my way.

 

[jomills1]

Rives, I've read tons on forums about about being weary of Ebay. Is this a quality example similar to what you've purchased?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robertson-4...655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d343451f

If this is what you would suggest would I need a bulb, plug & socket, and the step up transformer? I apologize for all the questions. I just don't want to make an order and then have to make three more after because of mistakes.

 

[jomills1]

Immediately after posting that I think I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just having self doubt, but I'm pretty sure the 315 would need it's own special setup, right? Not a standard 400w...

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you. I'm thinking about purchasing that ballast, the 330 bulbs from advanced so they're tested, and the cord you mentioned earlier. Would I need anything beyond those to start my vert setup? I'm a new grower all around and trying to make the best investment. The 315 seems appealing because it's new, but 220 on the setup and then a step up transformer seems like it would be investing a lot more for a similar amount of power. Please feel free to corrrect me if I'm wrong.

Beyond those 3 things, you need to have a timer, a plan to dissipate the heat, get it out of the growing area, odor control, and a way to maintain photoperiod control.

I think that rives & I share a certain techno tinkering curiosity, also the means to support it. That's something you can grow into down the road, or not, depending on how well your planned adventure agrees with you. I'd suggest making it cheap & easy on yourself atm, bring in a harvest, take it from there.

If you want to explore down the road, what you buy now can serve as backup in the future. More than one grower has found themselves jammed from lack of spares when equipment failure occurs. It's worse when you're using uncommon equipment like 315 hardware. With the standard 400/330w hardware, an urban dweller can get any part of it locally in a pinch, even make substitutions, enough to keep on growing. It's even better if you can just swap for stuff you have, sort out the problem independent of the grow.

 

[rives]

Immediately after posting that I think I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just having self doubt, but I'm pretty sure the 315 would need it's own special setup, right? Not a standard 400w...

Correct. The 315w uses only the ballast designed for it, which is a low-frequency electronics ballast. There are two designs from Philips and a couple of other companies build compatible ones, but they can only be used with the 315w lamps.