2 4-8k flipping flower rooms + 1 2-4k Veg room - Central vs Minisplit

[LSWM]

Here's a diagram with minor description of "process cooling" which would be cooling of a reservoir and separate loads being handled independently of the reservoir.

I'm starting to doubt that undersizing could work, but I need to do more reading/thinking first...

 

[LSWM]

Here's a diagram of what I'm talking about with the storage reservoir. The chiller would essentially run 24/7 eliminating on/off cycling, and each of the air handlers would run independently, using the chilled water storage as their source of cool water.

 

[theother]

Here's a diagram of what I'm talking about with the storage reservoir. The chiller would essentially run 24/7 eliminating on/off cycling, and each of the air handlers would run independently, using the chilled water storage as their source of cool water.

what air handlers where you looking at? I think this could work, think the volume of water may need to be higher though (just a guess) It would work though, just put the pumps feeding the air handlers on a thermostat and your golden.

I I don't know much about chillers, but I suspect your gonna have to set it at a degree, not just on. I'm pretty sure they will just freeze out? But I don't know for sure.

 

[twist1uc]

Each handler is hooked up to it's own thermostat.

 

[LSWM]

what air handlers where you looking at? I think this could work, think the volume of water may need to be higher though (just a guess) It would work though, just put the pumps feeding the air handlers on a thermostat and your golden.

I I don't know much about chillers, but I suspect your gonna have to set it at a degree, not just on. I'm pretty sure they will just freeze out? But I don't know for sure.

Something like this: CFFWA

but further down the page they have some "direct expansion" handlers as well. Not sure what the benefits of that are?

No idea on pricing either, lol.

 

[twist1uc]

Any reason why you chose the wall mounted over the ceiling mounted?

 

[LSWM]

Any reason why you chose the wall mounted over the ceiling mounted?

No, other than I'm not sure what the situation with the attic is yet.

Not sure what the situation will end up being. I'm surveying the spot this weekend, will know more then.

 

[Ttystikk]

Could I run a smaller water chiller and store chilled water in the home? Having a 2 ton chiller, and two 4 ton air handlers with a ~100gal res sounds totally doable to me. Any info?

So I guess I'm the resident water cooling expert? My only qualification is that I've been fucking with the tech for over 3 years now. I'm not HVAC certified- what I don't understand is why those who are don't get water cooling any better than they do.

I'm running twelve 860W CDM lamps bare in the summer, and while it's a close scrape, I'm doing it with just TWO TONS.

YES, I pull every trick and cheat in the book- why not?! I run two sets of four on a flip and the third stage's in veg, on for six and off for six. My cold water reservoir is about 40 gallons, but that's not the main reserve of cool.

I run RDWC, which needs cold water. My tubsites hold about 15 gallons of water apiece, times eight in the stage = 120 gallons. Allllllll that cold water got me to thinking about why my lil ol' two Ton chiller only ever seems to really fall behind when we have hot NIGHTS around here, something that doesn't happen every year. Why would that be?

I run my chiller circuit at about 58f. Proper setting is necessary to achieve this without having the machine cycle too much- whoever said this is to be avoided is right, within reason; cycling once or twice an hour is fine. Cycling every five minutes is not. I set my temperature at 48f with a 'rise' of 10f. Add the temp and the rise together to get the target temperature of the water being chilled- in my case, 58f in my chilling circuit, which then flows everywhere I need cooling.

This is easily fifteen degrees warmer than the mfr will tell you to run your cooling circuit, but I do it to gain the efficiency benefits of a small 'delta T', or temperature difference between the cooling circuit and the environment. I'm deliberately running the warmest water I possibly can in my chilling circuit to minimize losses throughout the system.

Back to the mystery of cold rooms while I have cool nights; my cooling circuit reservoir- the 'cold water' reservoir- is plenty big enough for the system, but at 40 gallons it isn't going to hold a massive amount of cooling, nor hold it for long. So that's not the real reservoir of cold...

Another reason I run my chiller temps warmer is so I don't need to buy and use a thermostatically controlled switch on my RDWC, that only chills the RDWC when temps rise above the set value. I'm cheap; it seemed like a lot of money I could avoid spending at the time. Here's what happens; my RDWC spends all night cooling down from 70-72 to 64-66f, before spending the next day cycle warming up again. Meanwhile, during hot afternoons my cooling circuit water rises into the sixties.

It's actually putting the excess heat from the system into the RDWC water until it can pump the heat out overnight when it's cooler outside! I'd discovered how to use my RDWC system as my heat sink and reservoir, with enough capacity to assist the chiller through the hot afternoon and evening until it cools down enough for the unit to catch up.

In other words, the water in my RDWC backstops the chiller; if the cooling circuit gets warmer than the RDWC water, the excess heat is left there until the chiller can catch up... overnight.

And that's how two Tons cools twelve bare bulbs in August.

Science, bitch! LOL

 

[LSWM]

So I guess I'm the resident water cooling expert? My only qualification is that I've been fucking with the tech for over 3 years now. I'm not HVAC certified- what I don't understand is why those who are don't get water cooling any better than they do.

Yes, you are! It seems to be initial setup cost has hindered the residential market for years, even though efficiency wins every time.

I'm running twelve 860W CDM lamps bare in the summer, and while it's a close scrape, I'm doing it with just TWO TONS.

YES, I pull every trick and cheat in the book- why not?! I run two sets of four on a flip and the third stage's in veg, on for six and off for six. My cold water reservoir is about 40 gallons, but that's not the main reserve of cool.

Does that mean you are running 12 lamps at one time or only 6 or 8? I'm confused. 2 tons should cool 4k. What size are your air handlers?

I run RDWC, which needs cold water. My tubsites hold about 15 gallons of water apiece, times eight in the stage = 120 gallons. Allllllll that cold water got me to thinking about why my lil ol' two Ton chiller only ever seems to really fall behind when we have hot NIGHTS around here, something that doesn't happen every year. Why would that be?

I run my chiller circuit at about 58f. Proper setting is necessary to achieve this without having the machine cycle too much- whoever said this is to be avoided is right, within reason; cycling once or twice an hour is fine. Cycling every five minutes is not. I set my temperature at 48f with a 'rise' of 10f. Add the temp and the rise together to get the target temperature of the water being chilled- in my case, 58f in my chilling circuit, which then flows everywhere I need cooling.

This is easily fifteen degrees warmer than the mfr will tell you to run your cooling circuit, but I do it to gain the efficiency benefits of a small 'delta T', or temperature difference between the cooling circuit and the environment. I'm deliberately running the warmest water I possibly can in my chilling circuit to minimize losses throughout the system.

Back to the mystery of cold rooms while I have cool nights; my cooling circuit reservoir- the 'cold water' reservoir- is plenty big enough for the system, but at 40 gallons it isn't going to hold a massive amount of cooling, nor hold it for long. So that's not the real reservoir of cold...

Another reason I run my chiller temps warmer is so I don't need to buy and use a thermostatically controlled switch on my RDWC, that only chills the RDWC when temps rise above the set value. I'm cheap; it seemed like a lot of money I could avoid spending at the time. Here's what happens; my RDWC spends all night cooling down from 70-72 to 64-66f, before spending the next day cycle warming up again. Meanwhile, during hot afternoons my cooling circuit water rises into the sixties.

It's actually putting the excess heat from the system into the RDWC water until it can pump the heat out overnight when it's cooler outside! I'd discovered how to use my RDWC system as my heat sink and reservoir, with enough capacity to assist the chiller through the hot afternoon and evening until it cools down enough for the unit to catch up.

In other words, the water in my RDWC backstops the chiller; if the cooling circuit gets warmer than the RDWC water, the excess heat is left there until the chiller can catch up... overnight.

And that's how two Tons cools twelve bare bulbs in August.

Science, bitch! LOL

So let me get this straight, you have the chiller cooling a 40 gal reservoir, then that reservoir has a heat exchanger that you pump your RDWC water through?

What are the temperatures outside during mid August in your area?

 

[theother]

So I guess I'm the resident water cooling expert? My only qualification is that I've been fucking with the tech for over 3 years now. I'm not HVAC certified- what I don't understand is why those who are don't get water cooling any better than they do.

I'm running twelve 860W CDM lamps bare in the summer, and while it's a close scrape, I'm doing it with just TWO TONS.

YES, I pull every trick and cheat in the book- why not?! I run two sets of four on a flip and the third stage's in veg, on for six and off for six. My cold water reservoir is about 40 gallons, but that's not the main reserve of cool.

I run RDWC, which needs cold water. My tubsites hold about 15 gallons of water apiece, times eight in the stage = 120 gallons. Allllllll that cold water got me to thinking about why my lil ol' two Ton chiller only ever seems to really fall behind when we have hot NIGHTS around here, something that doesn't happen every year. Why would that be?

I run my chiller circuit at about 58f. Proper setting is necessary to achieve this without having the machine cycle too much- whoever said this is to be avoided is right, within reason; cycling once or twice an hour is fine. Cycling every five minutes is not. I set my temperature at 48f with a 'rise' of 10f. Add the temp and the rise together to get the target temperature of the water being chilled- in my case, 58f in my chilling circuit, which then flows everywhere I need cooling.

This is easily fifteen degrees warmer than the mfr will tell you to run your cooling circuit, but I do it to gain the efficiency benefits of a small 'delta T', or temperature difference between the cooling circuit and the environment. I'm deliberately running the warmest water I possibly can in my chilling circuit to minimize losses throughout the system.

Back to the mystery of cold rooms while I have cool nights; my cooling circuit reservoir- the 'cold water' reservoir- is plenty big enough for the system, but at 40 gallons it isn't going to hold a massive amount of cooling, nor hold it for long. So that's not the real reservoir of cold...

Another reason I run my chiller temps warmer is so I don't need to buy and use a thermostatically controlled switch on my RDWC, that only chills the RDWC when temps rise above the set value. I'm cheap; it seemed like a lot of money I could avoid spending at the time. Here's what happens; my RDWC spends all night cooling down from 70-72 to 64-66f, before spending the next day cycle warming up again. Meanwhile, during hot afternoons my cooling circuit water rises into the sixties.

It's actually putting the excess heat from the system into the RDWC water until it can pump the heat out overnight when it's cooler outside! I'd discovered how to use my RDWC system as my heat sink and reservoir, with enough capacity to assist the chiller through the hot afternoon and evening until it cools down enough for the unit to catch up.

In other words, the water in my RDWC backstops the chiller; if the cooling circuit gets warmer than the RDWC water, the excess heat is left there until the chiller can catch up... overnight.

And that's how two Tons cools twelve bare bulbs in August.

Science, bitch! LOL

Just wanted to clarify something you are using wort style heat exchanger in the rdwc correct. Do you think it would be possible to add an extra ton to the chiller for lswm and just use a larger volume of water for a reservoir?

Any advice on sourcing the chiller or air handler?

 

[Ttystikk]

I bent my own 1/2" copper tubing into a coil, that goes into the control bucket because that's where the most flow is. Works great.

 

[Ttystikk]

So let me get this straight, you have the chiller cooling a 40 gal reservoir, then that reservoir has a heat exchanger that you pump your RDWC water through?

What are the temperatures outside during mid August in your area?

Not quite. There is an entire circulation system that services the chiller and every other cooling device, and the 40 gallon reservoir is at its heart. That system effectively distributes the chiller's cool output to every point in the system that needs cooling. Water to water heat exchanger cores in every control bucket keep water for plants separate from water for cooling.

We hit mid 90s regularly this month and last. It's a typical Colorado summer, perhaps a bit on the cool side after the record breaking heat last year.

 

[Hydropimp]

We use climate master ac water cooled

Either with a well or a big pool that is above
Ground

 

[Ttystikk]

We use climate master ac water cooled

Either with a well or a big pool that is above
Ground

That's a heat pump- if you have a cold water circuit that's the whole shebang right there. I read heat pump brochures and they want you to bury the other side of the system in the ground?? Hey now, I've got needs for hot AND cold running water 24/7/365-

Should I contact the company? They seem a lot more expensive than SURNA.

 

[LSWM]

Got some new info to share, and plans varying. Busy chopping up plants that managed to get a bit too dry in the 60 hours I was gone.

Be back soon with an updated floor plan and new goals.

 

[Ttystikk]

Waiting for that update...

 

[LSWM]

Im spending the winter at my current spot I decided. This new spot will be planned out and renovated in the mean time.

Unfortunately my phone broke this week and was my only source of internet. Im away from the spot for a few days, and i fixed the phone now, but forgot the sim card...

I promise an update is coming, but its gonna be a few days and its not as urgent an issue anymore.

 

[LSWM]

Wow, well this is embarrassing. I have been searching for my notes from when I visited the spot weeks ago, and I cannot seem to find them. I guess it's not the end of the world because I have to plan out a new room at my current location anyways.

This thread should still be valid in 6 months, but at the moment doesn't really matter.

One new piece of info, is that there is a covered patio that is ~13x20 if memory serves. It is sloped and only has ~7 feet of height on the lower end. I'm thinking about excavating it a foot or two, then enclosing the area. This would open up many new room designs and possibilities.

Apologies for wasting anyone who's helped contribute to this thread's time. Thanks anyway guys.

 

[LSWM]

And this thread is back! Putting in 30 days notice at this pad and starting cleaning out/setup at the new spot.

Still really unsure what my budget is going to be, or what I want to accomplish. I'm thinking about starting this new year with a single room with 6k in it and just a large window AC. (Family has a million laying around, so while efficiency will be shit, initial investment will be nil) With running lights at night, and ventilating the room, it should be fine until April/May.

If I can pull off a couple successful harvests on the cheap, then I will be upgrading to either a zoned Central A/C or a water chilled setup.

There is still a lot of factors that need to be decided upon. I'd love to run a flip setup, but a 13x20 space may, or may not, be setup for that. I could maybe run one of the bedrooms and that space and flip 4-6k? I dunno.

Tree rooms vs donuts vs overhead lighting... 8x8 rooms scream tree room to me. Can't fit more than a single tray in there. Low ceilings don't exactly sound like they will work for stacked donuts, nor do they sound like a good plan for overhead lighting.

Large coco bushes is probably where my future is headed. I'm pissed though because I just dropped $400 on trays last month... Ughhh...

Enough rambling... I'll have more info in the next few weeks as this progresses.

 

[Hydropimp]

Here they dig deep wells to get the cold water into the unit.

As for heat i don't know about that one.

Climate master is pricey but you can find cheap ones on crlist.