Raise Grade 6"? - Transplanting Beer Cups to 3 Gal Fabric Bags

[papaduc]

same way i just did up there. take the same clone grow one in a starter cup grow another in a different sized container. compare. the end.

this isn't about me. this is about helping granger. stay on topic.

Stig, that's exactly the point I just made. There is a relationship between roots and shoots, we know that's a well established fact. But the relationship isn't what you describe. That's all I'm saying.

The tap root reaches the bottom of the pot within a few days of the seed sprouting. By the time it's this big it's tap root will have reached the bottom a long time ago. Even at seedling stage the tap root hitting the bottom doesn't restrict it's vertical growth, as anyone with stretchy seedlings will testify.




Now, that seedling got buried right up to it's first leaves. I never pot up without doing this, I always bury the stem because of the effect it has later on in the cycle.

If it restricted it's growth, then it would not look like this a week later



There'd be no difference in the growth rate if it'd gone into a bigger pot.

By the time it's that big, it's ready for a bigger pot, but not because of the tap root, but because of the general root space.

It goes into an 11L pot at that point and 12 days later it's this big and ready for flower



There's a way to transition from pot to pot and light to light, but it's not based on where about the tap root is mate. That's all.

 

[papaduc]

I'm thinking that since the air pruning/branching mitigates all these factors

I use fabric pots myself mate, and they are good. But they don't mitigate those factors. The stem will still sprout shoots and later in the cycle you'll have a thicker base because of it.

I've still got 2-3 days before I transplant, so if anyone still has ideas, please continue to post.
. -granger

Like I said above, I bury the stem because of the effect it has on the plant later in the cycle. The base gets bigger and supports better growth.

Have you got any pictures of them?

 

[theother]

Burying the stem scares me, shit goes wrong, who knows. Maybe just get aggressive with bending and or topping to make up for it?

Even though it might work fine, I don't see it being worth the risk if there is any other way to accommodate the ceiling height.

 

[papaduc]

What's the risk?

 

[Snow Crash]

What's the risk?

Damping off would be my concern.

 

[papaduc]

There's no more risk of damping off than there would be at any other time. If you're creating the conditions for damping off to occur, it will occur regardless of which part of the stem is in the ground. Think about it.

 

[Mikell]

This is rather off-topic, but while we're blabbering about roots, thought I'd throw out two theories for mental food.

1. I've read of a growers that "top" (bottom? XD) seedling/clones tap roots (or thickest root formed) to promote even developement of above ground growth, and greater branching of roots.

2. Starting seeds/clones in tree planter style seedling flats, to avoid tap-root related stress, and maintain high soil volume with a minimum foot print, e.g. Centennial seed style. I thought to try this using 1 1/2" piping, failing to get those seed flats, to jam as many babies as possible into a backpack. I abandoned the idea when it became obvious there wouldn't be an outdoor crop this season, but might fiddlefart with it over the winter.

Any experience/thoughts?

 

[Nes]

I thought i'd ignore it but seems like one day i'll come back to a 12 page thread and i was taken out of context on all 12 pages.

cannabis grows with a taproot this is science. when the taproot goes down it sends a signal to the top of the plant for it to go up. As above So below. when the taproot hits the bottom or an obstruction the top of the plant corresponds by slowing down or stopping VERTICAL growth.

like i said as above so below. when the taproot has no more room to go down it stops telling the top to get taller at the same rate since the roots aren't established enough to support up top. as the rest of the roots grow and branch out so does the top grow up and the branches spread out.

the top is a mirror of the bottom. when the taproot stops growing down the top of the plant stops growing up and starts growing out like the roots. if you look at your plant, imagine the same plant upside down and you have the root structure.

anyway continue.

Your analogy of the plant being a mirror has some truth to it, not 100%, though. look at alfalfa or carrots.
also, root classification are not a black and white of fibirous or tap rooted. I'll concede that cannabis does have tap roots, but with the ratio of tap to fibirous roots, I'm not sure I'd call it tap rooted like I would carrots or comfrey.

as for soil depth and plant height being a mirror, how do you account for industrial hemp with its roots reaching 2-2.5 meters down, yet growing to over 4 meters tall?

The signal you are refering to, between the tops and root tips is the auxin/cytokynin relationship i mentioned before. cytokynin is produced in the roots and is what promotes vertical growth and branching. auxin is produced in the meristem and inhibits branching. When the roots stop sending as much cytokynin up, the auxin takes dominance and causes stretching without branching, not the other way round.

 

[Nes]

Hah, whoa I didn't realize there was a whole other page of comments here. thats what i get for not paying attention.

I gotta agree with papaduc on dampening off. this is why I'd say not to scrape or cut into the cambrium, though. no need to further conditions that'd encourage an issue like dampening off.

 

[theother]

What's the risk?

Nothing specific, just its abnormal and I have seen plants suffer from wet stems, no idea if being surrounded by soil triggers the rooting response. I would just say that even if they did create new roots there you would always risk a slow plant that doesn't do it as quickly and pics up some stem nasty in the process.

 

[watts]

bury it bro

 

[Nes]

Nothing specific, just its abnormal and I have seen plants suffer from wet stems, no idea if being surrounded by soil triggers the rooting response. I would just say that even if they did create new roots there you would always risk a slow plant that doesn't do it as quickly and pics up some stem nasty in the process.

It's not really abnormal, it's a natural response that can be taken advantage of in an agricultural setting. mounding like this is how you create more root stock for perrenial fruits. Proper humidity arround the stem triggers rooting, just like with layering or air layering propagation techniques. Oversaturation and high humidity around the stem, without some drying, will cause rotting just as it will with clones in a humidity dome.

 

[Weeded1s]

 

[papaduc]

Your analogy of the plant being a mirror has some truth to it, not 100%, though. look at alfalfa or carrots.
also, root classification are not a black and white of fibirous or tap rooted. I'll concede that cannabis does have tap roots, but with the ratio of tap to fibirous roots, I'm not sure I'd call it tap rooted like I would carrots or comfrey.

as for soil depth and plant height being a mirror, how do you account for industrial hemp with its roots reaching 2-2.5 meters down, yet growing to over 4 meters tall?

The signal you are refering to, between the tops and root tips is the auxin/cytokynin relationship i mentioned before. cytokynin is produced in the roots and is what promotes vertical growth and branching. auxin is produced in the meristem and inhibits branching. When the roots stop sending as much cytokynin up, the auxin takes dominance and causes stretching without branching, not the other way round.

It's not really abnormal, it's a natural response that can be taken advantage of in an agricultural setting. mounding like this is how you create more root stock for perrenial fruits. Proper humidity arround the stem triggers rooting, just like with layering or air layering propagation techniques. Oversaturation and high humidity around the stem, without some drying, will cause rotting just as it will with clones in a humidity dome.

Spot on. Good gardening knowledge and I agree with all of it. Comfrey, like you say, is a good example of a plant which relies on it's tap root to mine deep into the subsoil for food, which is why it's leaves are used to mulch or extract.

The limitations of the cannabis plant to grow are more to do with the health and pot space of the fibrous system than it's tap root. In fact, when you think about it, when you bury the stem it effectively becomes an extension of the tap root, with lateral roots growing from it.

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

there is a guy named Plago with a thread on here where he took one plant and then took each branch and rooted it into the ground like a strawberry runner. he kept doing it and the plant grew really wide before he let it grow upwards. it was a pretty neat concept to watch for outdoor grows.

 

[Nes]

there is a guy named Plago with a thread on here where he took one plant and then took each branch and rooted it into the ground like a strawberry runner. he kept doing it and the plant grew really wide before he let it grow upwards. it was a pretty neat concept to watch for outdoor grows.

Sounds like a fun experiment!
That is essentially layering.

It's similar to strawberries, though their crowns will start sending roots just hanging close to the dirt. Blackberryies spread this way, without the crowns, as do a lot of viney things. Some trees actually do this naturally as well. I've done this with rosemary and lavender as well, to propogate new plants, you can do it with all sorts!

When seaching for the layering image, I found this good mounding graffic as well.

and this