Closed loop filtration media

[Lono]

Was wondering what everyone prefers for their filtration media?

I've just been using coffee filters lately, but plan to switch to filter paper.

Couple of questions..

I've been looking for some whatmans but its a PITA to find the right size AND micron. I wanted to go 10 micron on top of 5 micron. Saw Bret mention in a video once that he uses hardened ashless filters, curious if that is a necessity or not?

Going for the best fit for a 3" column too. I'm thinking slightly over 7cm? I saw a picture on IG of a small SS ring that can be used to secure the filter paper in place. I hope to be able to find/make one of those as well.

Was also thinking about adding some stainless steel wool, but wasn't sure to go with fine, medium, or coarse. Or any at all. I found some 316 rolls on ebay for $30-40.

I do plan on getting a couple 3" ferrules to weld together, with a plate in between, with holes drilled through it. Just like a big ol' buchner funnel. The SS wool will be held in place between this plate and a screen gasket.

What does everyone think? Am I going overboard with the filtration ?

 

[dopecook]

i be all using whatman #1's and and ish.


I just cut them to size. I'd like to cut custom ones though. I put them on on 80 mesh screen gaskets. Two layers. It sounds like you are wanting do what what BHOgart is selling prefabbed... Elliot.

 

[Gray Wolf]

As has been noted, you can clamp two end cap reducers together with screened gaskets in the middle and on both ends, to hold filters, or you can use a sanitary spool and pack something more elaborate.

I am personally planning to experiment with biodiesel recovery sock filters, for the first stage, after boiling the mixture for a bit to cool it down more.

A solvent cooled with dry ice could also be used as a refrigerant in a heat exchanger for cooling, as could liquid nitrogen.

Skunk Pharm Research's Joe, has also been actively working directly with VICI Metronics engineers, to develop filtration columns of mixed chromatography beads, for both pre-filtering the butane, as well as for filtering the butane oil mixture afterwards to remove the undesirable darker polar elements.

As I understand it, the mixture is of silicon and aluminum beads, with about five different surface matrices, to capture the range of evil spirits we seek to exorcise, and hydraulically compressed into stainless sleeves and the ends TIG welded in place.

We think we are close to success on the first and encouraging results, with high hopes on the second.

More as things mature!

 

[Lono]

i be all using whatman #1's and and ish.


I just cut them to size. I'd like to cut custom ones though. I put them on on 80 mesh screen gaskets. Two layers. It sounds like you are wanting do what what BHOgart is selling prefabbed... Elliot.

It is one of several things I plan to "borrow" from elliot. The filter bases, the laser cut rings to hold them in place, the filtration media obviously...

The hemispherical lid, the stainless steel recovery tank, the dry ice sleeve. The guy is a total goober but has some great tricks up his sleeve

I'm going to do it all cheaper and better though. Not going to pay a 100-200% mark up to have a company piece them together for me

#TeamDIY lol

 

[Lono]

As has been noted, you can clamp two end cap reducers together with screened gaskets in the middle and on both ends, to hold filters, or you can use a sanitary spool and pack something more elaborate.

I am personally planning to experiment with biodiesel recovery sock filters, for the first stage, after boiling the mixture for a bit to cool it down more.

A solvent cooled with dry ice could also be used as a refrigerant in a heat exchanger for cooling, as could liquid nitrogen.

Skunk Pharm Research's Joe, has also been actively working directly with VICI Metronics engineers, to develop filtration columns of mixed chromatography beads, for both pre-filtering the butane, as well as for filtering the butane oil mixture afterwards to remove the undesirable darker polar elements.

As I understand it, the mixture is of silicon and aluminum beads, with about five different surface matrices, to capture the range of evil spirits we seek to exorcise, and hydraulically compressed into stainless sleeves and the ends TIG welded in place.

We think we are close to success on the first and encouraging results, with high hopes on the second.

More as things mature!

Oh man, so relieved to hear you guys are working on something! Very excited to watch that project unfold

As always, great ideas and thank you for chiming in GW

 

[Lono]

So I went ahead and ordered some whatmans and some medium grit 316 SS wool.

For the whatmans I got:
9cm-22u
9cm-16u
9cm-8u
5.5cm-4-7u

Planning on doing some trial runs to see which configuration I prefer, but I am definitely open to suggestions

Was curious if it will be an issue to have 9cm-22 on top of a 9cm-16u on the 3" screened gasket, followed by the concentric reducer packed with SS wool, followed by the 5.5cm-4-7u filter sitting on the 1.5" screen gasket? Will having the column size reduced + finer filter be problematic?

Also, elliot "jbsholistics" valentine claims that without the SS wool, the filters will clog and not perform as well. Was just wondering if that sounded like BS to anyone else or not...

 

[ghostmade]

tag

 

[Lono]

tag

Pardon?

Another thing I may have forgot to mention, I saw these 316 rings that were laser cut tig wire or something? Theyre used to hold the filter in place. Apparently they have a little "spring" to them which allows them to securely hold the filter in place.

Any of you engineering minds(GW and co) have an idea of how such a thing could be made?

 

[CaliGabe]

Don't know if this is helpful yet you can buy just about anything regarding filter media (screens) from Sefar. They sell in bulk though so probably way overkill for personal use. Probably just FYI stuff. At one company we used to buy rolls of screen for large scale production in the health supplement/food industry.

 

[CaliGabe]

I am personally planning to experiment with biodiesel recovery sock filters, for the first stage, after boiling the mixture for a bit to cool it down more.

Sounds like something similar I used to use on air intakes when I was growing indoors. Each intake fan had a sock and used a micron rating that would eliminate spider mite eggs. Didn't bother with something like HEPA for spore elimination. Can't remember for sure the company I would buy those socks from yet think it was Westco.

EDIT - after some more research seems like you guys can look at some type of inline cartridge filter and just add the necessary plumbing? Just a thought.

DOUBLE EDIT - Either Sefar or Tetco, a company that makes filter media that Sefar sells, will offer samples and pretty sure they are square yet don't remember what size. I picked up a bunch of synthetic material samples, probably polyethylene, yet ended up going with socks due to flow restrictions on a flat piece of material as socks give more total surface area. One thing you need to watch is the % open area as that dictates flow rate. You can have 2 different materials with the same micron rating yet 2 different % open areas which affects flow. Same thing with something like stainless screen from Cleveland Wire Cloth.

 

[HighStateToke]

Pardon?

Another thing I may have forgot to mention, I saw these 316 rings that were laser cut tig wire or something? Theyre used to hold the filter in place. Apparently they have a little "spring" to them which allows them to securely hold the filter in place.

Any of you engineering minds(GW and co) have an idea of how such a thing could be made?

Message a guy names Redeyes Mj on facebook, he made eliot's

 

[HighStateToke]

Also, elliot "jbsholistics" valentine claims that without the SS wool, the filters will clog and not perform as well. Was just wondering if that sounded like BS to anyone else or not...

Totally legit. The smaller particles need to be picked out prior to the filter to prevent clogging. I have been wanting to make some filter bases for a minute..did you say you were making your own? (Yeah no way I want to pay $100+ for such a simple thing)

 

[Lono]

Sounds like something similar I used to use on air intakes when I was growing indoors. Each intake fan had a sock and used a micron rating that would eliminate spider mite eggs. Didn't bother with something like HEPA for spore elimination. Can't remember for sure the company I would buy those socks from yet think it was Westco.

EDIT - after some more research seems like you guys can look at some type of inline cartridge filter and just add the necessary plumbing? Just a thought.

DOUBLE EDIT - Either Sefar or Tetco, a company that makes filter media that Sefar sells, will offer samples and pretty sure they are square yet don't remember what size. I picked up a bunch of synthetic material samples, probably polyethylene, yet ended up going with socks due to flow restrictions on a flat piece of material as socks give more total surface area. One thing you need to watch is the % open area as that dictates flow rate. You can have 2 different materials with the same micron rating yet 2 different % open areas which affects flow. Same thing with something like stainless screen from Cleveland Wire Cloth.

I was looking through some of those sock filters, thanks for the links. Was trying to find one made of a material with a good butane rating, couldn't find one but I'm sure they're there

 

[Lono]

Totally legit. The smaller particles need to be picked out prior to the filter to prevent clogging. I have been wanting to make some filter bases for a minute..did you say you were making your own? (Yeah no way I want to pay $100+ for such a simple thing)

Wouldn't the smaller particles be filtered by the 22u filter above it?

Yes, in the process of making the 'prototype' now. Have the parts in the mail, should be here Wednesday. Talked it over with my welder buddy and he has a pretty solid plan for how hes going to do it. Gotta see how much time/labor it takes and I'll get back to you on a price.

Messaged that guy on Facebook too. Realllyyyyy want those rings !

 

[pharmco]

Wouldn't the smaller particles be filtered by the 22u filter above it?

Yes, in the process of making the 'prototype' now. Have the parts in the mail, should be here Wednesday. Talked it over with my welder buddy and he has a pretty solid plan for how hes going to do it. Gotta see how much time/labor it takes and I'll get back to you on a price.

Messaged that guy on Facebook too. Realllyyyyy want those rings !

I am also interested in buying filter bases if yours work well

 

[Lono]

I am also interested in buying filter bases if yours work well

Sick, thanks man! My partner will be stoked . He has a passion for welding and this is going to be his new project. Just crossing our fingers that bhogart doesn't have em copyrighted or anything :X

Made contact with the ring guy!! Super cool dude! I'll definitely be including his rings with the bases . Having 3" AND 1.5" made. He said he hasn't done 1.5" yet. People with smaller systems are in luck

 

[Gray Wolf]

Pardon?

Another thing I may have forgot to mention, I saw these 316 rings that were laser cut tig wire or something? Theyre used to hold the filter in place. Apparently they have a little "spring" to them which allows them to securely hold the filter in place.

Any of you engineering minds(GW and co) have an idea of how such a thing could be made?

Let's talk about filters. First, there are nominal filters and absolute filters. A 25 micron nominal filter will on average, have a 25 micron pore size, but can also have some larger.

An absolute filter has no holes larger than 25 micron.

There is face filtration, body filtration, and variations like cross flow.

There is also cake filtration, where the deposits on the filter face act as filtration themselves.

You can use pressure or vacuum to accelerate the filtration rate.

From a solution standpoint, there are two primary things we are filtering out. Debris and plant waxes.

As soon as a face filter pore does its job, it is closed and no longer available to do its job. When all the pores are closed, we say the filter is blinded, because no liquid flows from them.

Soooo, from that morass, lets talk filtration.

The waxes present make face filtration problematic, in that they blind almost immediately.

A body filter has more surface area, so blinds slower, because it has more pores.

A cross flow pumps the solution through a porus membrane at high velocity, so that the solution weeps out through the pores in the membrane, but the high solution velocity across the surface of the membrane, keeps the pores swept clear. That is how micro filtration and reverse osmosis work.

Let's start by eliminating cross flow, due to its complexity, and focus on combinations of face and body filters.

To take out the bulk of the waxes, I plan to use a sock filter, which can be obtained in micron and sub-micron meshes for filtering bio-diesel.

Someone doing high volume might also look at filter presses, though the plant waxes might create problems without pre-coating the membranes, which creates problems for us on the other end, from a contamination standpoint.

Stainless wool might also be a good nominal body filtration solution, as well as glass or ceramic beads, and wadded coffee filters serve that purpose as well.

With regard to the weld wire. Start with a springy alloy and wrap it around a mandrel the right size. Clip out sections to use as circlips.

6 AL 4V or 5 AL 2.5 V Titanium works well for that, as does 17-4 Ph.

 

[pharmco]

Let's talk about filters. First, there are nominal filters and absolute filters. A 25 micron nominal filter will on average, have a 25 micron pore size, but can also have some larger.

An absolute filter has no holes larger than 25 micron.

There is face filtration, body filtration, and variations like cross flow.

There is also cake filtration, where the deposits on the filter face act as filtration themselves.

You can use pressure or vacuum to accelerate the filtration rate.

From a solution standpoint, there are two primary things we are filtering out. Debris and plant waxes.

As soon as a face filter pore does its job, it is closed and no longer available to do its job. When all the pores are closed, we say the filter is blinded, because no liquid flows from them.

Soooo, from that morass, lets talk filtration.

The waxes present make face filtration problematic, in that they blind almost immediately.

A body filter has more surface area, so blinds slower, because it has more pores.

A cross flow pumps the solution through a porus membrane at high velocity, so that the solution weeps out through the pores in the membrane, but the high solution velocity across the surface of the membrane, keeps the pores swept clear. That is how micro filtration and reverse osmosis work.

Let's start by eliminating cross flow, due to its complexity, and focus on combinations of face and body filters.

To take out the bulk of the waxes, I plan to use a sock filter, which can be obtained in micron and sub-micron meshes for filtering bio-diesel.

Someone doing high volume might also look at filter presses, though the plant waxes might create problems without pre-coating the membranes, which creates problems for us on the other end, from a contamination standpoint.

Stainless wool might also be a good nominal body filtration solution, as well as glass or ceramic beads, and wadded coffee filters serve that purpose as well.

With regard to the weld wire. Start with a springy alloy and wrap it around a mandrel the right size. Clip out sections to use as circlips.

6 AL 4V or 5 AL 2.5 V Titanium works well for that, as does 17-4 Ph.

That's a lot of good information, and seems to support a lot of what I suspected about so called "in-line dewaxing" where one dewaxes as they extract. I feel the term is a misnomer, and more accurately, it's inline wax reduction.

Running at -60 F, we don't pick up the majority of the waxes present, and what non wax particles we pick up, can be filtered to a degree by running through an array of filters down to 5 micron, or even less, dependent upon flow issues. But mostly, we just leave the waxes behind and need to use more butane to keep our yields up due to reduced solubility for cannabinoids as well.

The face filter pore part in particular makes good sense. Layering steel wool, and then large to small filters, would take out the larger particles, and leave the smaller microns to do what work they can.

I've used steel wool in conjunction with just my 25 micron filters, and it works very well for preventing the 25 micron from clogging by snagging all the larger particles and allowing good flow.

Sick, thanks man! My partner will be stoked . He has a passion for welding and this is going to be his new project. Just crossing our fingers that bhogart doesn't have em copyrighted or anything :X

Made contact with the ring guy!! Super cool dude! I'll definitely be including his rings with the bases . Having 3" AND 1.5" made. He said he hasn't done 1.5" yet. People with smaller systems are in luck

Very cool! I will definitely probably be interested in filter bases for one or both sizes, although I only have a 1.5 x 36 column currently.

I wouldn't worry too hard about the patents or whatnot. Difficult to patent what already exists in multiple forms and multiple places. Even Elliot admits he didn't invent filter bases.

I was looking at a similar range for my filters as well, although I had not decided which filters specifically. Going with "fast" filters everywhere, though.

Ironfist has some nice looking filter bases as well, although I'm expecting a hefty price tag and a bit of a run around trying to contact him for those.

 

[Lono]

Let's talk about filters. First, there are nominal filters and absolute filters. A 25 micron nominal filter will on average, have a 25 micron pore size, but can also have some larger.

An absolute filter has no holes larger than 25 micron.

There is face filtration, body filtration, and variations like cross flow.

There is also cake filtration, where the deposits on the filter face act as filtration themselves.

You can use pressure or vacuum to accelerate the filtration rate.

From a solution standpoint, there are two primary things we are filtering out. Debris and plant waxes.

As soon as a face filter pore does its job, it is closed and no longer available to do its job. When all the pores are closed, we say the filter is blinded, because no liquid flows from them.

Soooo, from that morass, lets talk filtration.

The waxes present make face filtration problematic, in that they blind almost immediately.

A body filter has more surface area, so blinds slower, because it has more pores.

A cross flow pumps the solution through a porus membrane at high velocity, so that the solution weeps out through the pores in the membrane, but the high solution velocity across the surface of the membrane, keeps the pores swept clear. That is how micro filtration and reverse osmosis work.

Let's start by eliminating cross flow, due to its complexity, and focus on combinations of face and body filters.

To take out the bulk of the waxes, I plan to use a sock filter, which can be obtained in micron and sub-micron meshes for filtering bio-diesel.

Someone doing high volume might also look at filter presses, though the plant waxes might create problems without pre-coating the membranes, which creates problems for us on the other end, from a contamination standpoint.

Stainless wool might also be a good nominal body filtration solution, as well as glass or ceramic beads, and wadded coffee filters serve that purpose as well.

With regard to the weld wire. Start with a springy alloy and wrap it around a mandrel the right size. Clip out sections to use as circlips.

6 AL 4V or 5 AL 2.5 V Titanium works well for that, as does 17-4 Ph.

So much great info here, can't thank you enough

Where do you recommend going for sock filters, GW?
Also, would you recommend using a glass filter bed as opposed to stainless steel wool? I still haven't found any, may not be searching for the right thing. Is fritted glass what I'm looking for?

 

[Lono]

That's a lot of good information, and seems to support a lot of what I suspected about so called "in-line dewaxing" where one dewaxes as they extract. I feel the term is a misnomer, and more accurately, it's inline wax reduction.

Running at -60 F, we don't pick up the majority of the waxes present, and what non wax particles we pick up, can be filtered to a degree by running through an array of filters down to 5 micron, or even less, dependent upon flow issues. But mostly, we just leave the waxes behind and need to use more butane to keep our yields up due to reduced solubility for cannabinoids as well.

The face filter pore part in particular makes good sense. Layering steel wool, and then large to small filters, would take out the larger particles, and leave the smaller microns to do what work they can.

I've used steel wool in conjunction with just my 25 micron filters, and it works very well for preventing the 25 micron from clogging by snagging all the larger particles and allowing good flow.



Very cool! I will definitely probably be interested in filter bases for one or both sizes, although I only have a 1.5 x 36 column currently.

I wouldn't worry too hard about the patents or whatnot. Difficult to patent what already exists in multiple forms and multiple places. Even Elliot admits he didn't invent filter bases.

I was looking at a similar range for my filters as well, although I had not decided which filters specifically. Going with "fast" filters everywhere, though.

Ironfist has some nice looking filter bases as well, although I'm expecting a hefty price tag and a bit of a run around trying to contact him for those.

We actually plan on making 3", 2", and 1.5", so you're in luck . When I spoke with the filter ring guy, he said he's only made 3" so far. So we actually have to build the 1.5" prototype and send it out to him(hopefully by friday) so he can measure + make the 1.5"ers. We plan on including them with the bases, and hopefully making them in-house eventually so we can drop the price.

I'll have to check out Carl's filter bases. I love Carl's work, just a little expensive. But you certainly get what you pay for. Great welder, beautiful system.

how in the heck does Bret get away with using 4 micron slow flows? I don't think he has any wool or any other form of packing in there either. I definitely plan on starting with the larger microns, and working my way down depending on what they pick up.