New Grower - Plans/Soil recipe advice

[victoroni]

Hey all,
I am usually pretty hesitant to post on discussion boards for fear of being scolded to search first. I am an adamant believer of the search function. I have been doing my homework for the last 6 months on many cannabis boards and ICMag has easily become my favorite, I have bookmarked many pages on all subjects of growing and I am almost ready to pull the trigger on my grow as my school semester is about to end so i will have time to set everything up. I just wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback on my plans so far. I will eventually be posting a grow journal for everyone to follow along. It will be my first grow and I am aiming for top quality Organics.

Some details:
I just received the brand new A51 XGS-190.
Planning a small closest grow that i will be building a custom box for. I will post more on the build later in case anyone is interested. My inner dimensions will be 24" x 32" the box will be around 5ft tall.
I was inspired by VerdantGreen's Scrog grows (particularly the 187w grow) and will be setting up my plants in a very similar if not identical fashion though I'm aiming to fit 6 plants in my space.

Medium: I'm a bit torn between LC's soil mix and Subcools JAW-style recipe. Or making my own base with a mixture of Peat/Coco/Perlite and using their amenities as guidelines for my own. I will also be purchasing a high quality water pump for making Aerated Compost Teas.

I do need to buy the soil/mix soon so i can get it cooking/nutrient cycling/composting. I guess i am wondering if it would be more beneficial to create my own base mixture vs using something like roots,FFOF, or sunshine. I'm sure it would be cheaper to source the Peat/coco/perlite/EWC separately. My question is what would be a good ratio for the base ingredients of my mix. And is there a rule of thumb for how much fertilizer to add per gal of mix?
This is where i am so far:
3 parts peat
2 parts coco
2 parts perlite
3 parts EWC
Is this okay, do i need more EWC or Perlite? Less peat/coco?

amendments -
? Bone meal
? Blood meal
? Epsom salts Mg
? dolomite lime- Ca & pH
? Kelp meal

I will also be ACT's when needed and depending on how rich my mix ends up being. I like the idea of adding beneficial microbes/fungi etc. to the medium.

Some people suggest twice the amount of Bone meal, others use equal parts? Why is this. Can anyone point me in the right direction as far as amendment content, or is there a thread that lays out the NPK requirements and content in each fertilizer?
I am really interested in knowing the "why" of things instead of just following a recipe blindly. Please let me know if I am missing anything! Thanks in advance for reading through i know it was long, but any advice is much appreciated. Looking forward to being a part of this community!

 

[xmobotx]

I'd ditch all those amendments except kelp meal

maybe something like;
meals:
1pt ea
fish
fish bone
neem seed
kelp
& 2 pt crab

then "lime" w/ gypsum & oyster flour {1 pt ea}

"pt" being ~1TBS/gallon of mix or ~1/2c/cubic foot of mix

cool that you're doing LED! quite a few people have shared some very nice LED grows & the area 51 is supposed to be a good commercial unit

 

[victoroni]

Thank you very much xmobotx, that's exactly the rule of thumb I was looking for. I have just read all about fish and fishbone, and now I think I would much rather use those in favor of Factory Farm byproducts bone and blood meal, I strongly detest the food industrial system.

However, I am curious if there are any other benefits to skipping bone and blood meal. In your experience what has convinced you that the fish alternatives are superior?
Also, at that ratio, 1 tbsp per gal. will this mix be on the hotter or milder side of the spectrum? I want to know how often I might be able to supplement some ACT's, i would of course start very lightly to gauge the plant's reactions. I would love to brew up some of my own kelp tea as I live 30 minutes from the pacific.

 

[xmobotx]

many avoid the bone meal on the basis of the slaughter industry (of course fish get slaughtered too right?) but; some raise concerns about antibiotics & BGH while others even suggest concerns about mad cow disease. I can see some potential for vacillations on how healthy a choice fish might be w/ the oil spills in the atlantic and the radiation in the pacific.
Can't win for losing? ~not so much, there's also the plant based choices. As jaykush liked to phrase it, "flowers for flowers." And clover living mulch as well as alfalfa meal for vegetative growth.
Blood meal is just too soluble. There's the danger of over-applying & the problem that it constantly has to be re-applied since it will be gone soon.
If you followed that to the letter, you'd be putting 1/2 cup of amendments in your gallon of soil. That strikes me as a little "hot." But, keep in mind that many of these are less soluble and will benefit more as "staying power" than an immediate "feed." I don;t like those terms because I prefer the living soil approach which is based more on quality humus sources and taking care of microbial populations. One of the best ways to do that is your EWC and vermicast teas. You pretty much cannot over-do EWC or EWC tea. In fact, if you have problems, put more EWC on. The exceptio to that might be if your EWC has had a lot of nutrients cycled through it as they can still be in there and one can make EWC "hot" if they really try.
Using wild harvested kelp is a great idea. I believe people who have that option like to rinse it pretty good before applying it & I know lots of folks use local seaweed as well.

 

[victoroni]

Possible deficiency?

Possible deficiency?

Hey Mobot or anybody else who can chime in. We are seeing some kind of deficiency in my friend's plants using the same mix recommended above. It could be something else, so I'll leave the official diagnosis to the pros.

My blueberry was burning pretty badly initially, so I cut it with promix and also added some glacial rock dust and cascade minerals cause my vegetables outside are doing phenomenal in the above mix with those additional amendments. I thought it would help the microbes. My plants don't have the same leaf chlorosis though.

I know it could also be a ph related lock out. I haven't seen his plants in person yet and he's going to be out of town till the weekend so just thought I'd start investigating now. Thanks so much guys, happy growing.

 

[Granger2]

Best to have EWC and perlite in equal amounts or a bit more Perlite. Good luck. -granger

 

[EclipseFour20]

My $0.02....all living things need these three things to live: Water, food, and air.

Should be no problem with the first two necessities--since most of us use "water" to deliver/transport "food" (nutes, ferts, minerals, elements, bacteria, etc.) to our soil/plant. The plant's root zone "air" is normally a function of the grow medium's "air porosity"...or more specifically the "mixture" and "selection" of aggregates that hold water and create air pockets (like perlite) and...aggregates that retain water but create zero air pockets (like clay).

The attached pdfs are Rutger bulletins (Fundamentals of Container Media Management, Parts I & II) explain how to measure various physical characteristics of container growing mediums. IMHO, not only is the aggregate ratio important--but so is moisture retention--which is a function of "how" and "frequency" each of us waters...so what works for me, might not work for you--if our watering habits are different.

Let your air/water porosity numbers determine the grow medium's ratio of "this and that"...that is how I fine tuned mine.

 

[xmobotx]

i wouldn;t rule out a bad water source. they could be over-watered also. what are temps & circulation like?

keep in mind it could be any of or even a combination of many things. they don't look too bad so, gentle nudges.

a transplant may even solve those problems?

 

[victoroni]

Hey thanks for the advice guys! Apologies for the delay its been somewhat hectic these last couple weeks. The ventilation and temps are pretty solid, it goes from 70-78 on the hottest days, but over all no extremes.

I just got a TDS meter and our water is at 320 ppm! I'm assuming that can't be great, and is a potential culprit. From what I've read hard water can cause lockouts or a high ph. Are there any steps to take in dealing with the water ppm? I was under the assumption that a good microbial population would help to buffer the ph of our tap water. Perhaps a switch to RO distilled water is in order. We've also been using tap water to make compost tea, using microbeman's method, although now i realize my water ppm is higher than he recommends for his recipe, since hard water has less oxygen capacity or something of the like. I've also read that a bacteria dominate compost tea usually has a higher pH, although now I'm just speculating as to some of my possible causes. I will provide an update as soon as possible after watering with "pure" water.

 

[maulwurst]

Hey thanks for the advice guys! Apologies for the delay its been somewhat hectic these last couple weeks. The ventilation and temps are pretty solid, it goes from 70-78 on the hottest days, but over all no extremes.

I just got a TDS meter and our water is at 320 ppm! I'm assuming that can't be great, and is a potential culprit. From what I've read hard water can cause lockouts or a high ph. Are there any steps to take in dealing with the water ppm?

this would also interest me. Goodluck with your plants though I'll be lurking

 

[Gubar1]

Your right on the assumption you shouldn't have to worry about ph to much with organics, but with hard water its a little different. Its basically over fert of cal. It does effect the ph of the soil. I think of it as theres too much calcium in pathways of the plant blocking other nutrients from moving. If you switch to ro and give them a decent flush, nothing to crazy the ph will level out pretty fast. The calcium in the soil make take a little longer to be broken down by the microbes. 320 isn't horrible but shouldn't be used. My tap water comes out at 400 ppm and it causes lockout in my outdoor that like higher levels of cal/mag.

 

[VerdantGreen]

rainwater is great if you can collect it.

when i used to use hard tapwater i bought the pH down to 6 with citric acid which worked ok too.

VG

 

[Microbeman]

Hi Vic; X and others have steered you right. Did you state the pH of the water? I'd be interested in that. With your high TDS I'd recommend a little less volume on the ingredients unless it always smells good at the end. The nose knows; now he nose

I'd leave kelpmeal off the ACT recipe with that TDS. Apply it separately.

 

[Granger2]

I have very hard, high alkalinity, high pH, high lime water. I use citric acid to bring it down to high 6's, then add nutes. If I'm using it straight, I take it down to 6. Converts a lot of the lime into more available citrates. Good luck. -granger

 

[victoroni]

Wow great thanks for all the help everyone. You guys are basically my mentors for growing/gardening so it's a pleasure to have you here MM, VG and Mobot. I haven't yet used another ACT, but I will keep those recommendations in mind. I do not have access to a pH meter for cost related reasons. I'm not really sure if the cheap ones on amazon would do for my purposes?

My city's annual water report for 2013 is one resource that helped me confirm my hard water hypothesis: (these are averages in mg/l or ppm)
Calcium 44
Hardness [as CaCO3] 190
Magnesium 19 ppm
pH range 7.6 to 8.4 average 8.0
Potassium 2.8
Sodium 63
Not sure how accurate these numbers are today of course, but I don't imagine things have changed much. I have yet to see my friend's plants again, I had a camping trip last week and he is usually quite busy with work.

Verdant, unfortunately rainwater is in short supply here in Southern California or I would be all over it.
Here's an update on my plants: Since my last post I have purchased a few gallons of Crystal Geyser (reads about 120 ppm) and have since watered 3 times with it including today, I also cheated and added 5ml/gal of liquid karma. Upon returning from my five day camping trip, (I had a roommate water them while I was gone) my plants appear much darker and have grown much more than I have seen usually. This leads me to believe the tap water has been stunting my plants and I will definitely stay away from it going forward. I'll have to find a good RO filter. One problem down, but I think my blueberry is still suffering from burn in the hot mix which I already diluted once.

 

[magiccannabus]

Its the chlorine in tap water that creates the most problems IMO. Just be very careful what you use to dechlorinate. Some of the fish tank chlorine removers have salts in them(not necessarily sodium chloride, but still some things that are bad for plants). I think it was Microbe Man who was using a little bit of molasses for that, and having good results. I honestly don't bother removing chlorine as often as I should these days, and I do think it has caused me some problems.

 

[FunkBomb]

This basic filter does a great job at getting some of the junk out of public water:

http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=14787

-Funk

 

[magiccannabus]

Sadly it doesn't remove fluoride, which is an industrial waste product that in any other use is considered hazardous waste. Even if you live in a pretty dry state, you might be able to get some pretty pure water by collecting air conditioner condensation....