"Martian method" valid?

[magiccannabus]

I have been thinking about eventually supplementing my grow with LED side-lights. I've been using fluoros for this for years and would like something more environmentally friendly and cool-running. The LED market is confusing at best though. I was thinking about putting in something kind of red, but that got me thinking about an old idea I read about years ago called "The Martian Method". Basically the theory is that a plant's photoperiod is not influenced by deep red light, and that monochromatic red LED could be run 24/7, with the blue/white LEDs coming on only during part of the light cycle. Some seemed to test this successfully, but I don't hear much about it anymore and searching for it on IC Mag forums found no results.

Have any of you tried this method? If so, does it work? Does it benefit the grow or not? Is it worth the extra bother?

 

[Jellyfish]

Wow, I don't know, but it's an interesting idea. Subbed.

 

[magiccannabus]

I found this post at another forum and am going to quote it here because I think it explains a lot of the theory behind getting more photosynthesis out of the plant during the "dark" cycle:

I said "Since flowering requires no less than 12 hours of "darkness", we cannot simply leave the day lights on longer to get more photosynthesis."

But taken as stated, that's not correct. Sorry to have got you off on the wrong foot. What I meant was that at the rate that phytochrome converts (Pfr->Pr) in total darkness, the process takes 12 hours. You can make the process take much more or less time by altering the night spectrum. Red light slows this conversion (reverses it, actually) and Far Red speeds it up. Whatever you choose to do with the night spectrum, you need the equivalent amount of conversion for flowering. If you blast the plant with Red all night, the conversion rate (aka the plant's clock rate, remember ) slows down to a near stand-still. You'll never get flowering out of a plant that way because you slowed the clock down waaay too much. Think if it as a "total amount of progress made" sort of equation. Red light makes less progress toward Pfr->Pr conversion, but more progress toward photosynthesis. Far Red light makes more progress towards Pfr->Pr conversion, but makes no difference to photosynthesis. This is how we can add photosynthesis but keep the phytochrome progress on track.

Remember that phytochrome conversion rate manipulation is not the point, it's the method. ("The method" meaning the method we use to keep the plant flowering) It doesn't need to be "charged back up" nor does the process get "kicked off". The process happens at a directly proportional rate to the light spectrum the plant is receiving, no more, no less (total darkness included). Phytochrome conversion is not connected to photosynthesis, both phytochrome conversion and photosynthesis are controlled by light spectrum. It's because they're both controlled by the light spectrum that when we manipulate one, the other gets manipulated as well. Therefore, we don't need to worry how phytochrome relates to photosynthesis. Instead, we need to consider what spectrum we can use that will maximize photosynthesis while keeping the phytochrome conversion rate in balance.

 

[exploziv]

Sounds like something that needs to be tested. Are there any grows done like this on our forum?

 

[magiccannabus]

Sadly, I have yet to be able to find evidence of such. I've seen dozens of posts and pages on the interwebs about it, and it is my understanding that the idea may have come from NASA originally. I'm guessing some of our more esteemed LED experts here like knna might know more about the tech involved. I would do some tests myself if I had any money, but I'm disabled so budget is always a problem. I think I heard about the idea originally on O/G, so its definitely been around a long time. I've only ever seen maybe 2 grows done start to finish with it, and I don't think they were autoflowering strains, but you never know....

 

[Jellyfish]

*bump*

 

[Mikell]

Perhaps I'm off target here, but the quote you originally linked leads me to think that if you supplement far/infrared during dark, you could gain the same dark period hormone change from less than 12 hours?

 

[vostok]

The issue for me was inconclusive, ...exactly how far of the red must you go ...Infra Red...?
On most forums to quote another posting its polite to include a reference to that site?

....link please!

 

[magiccannabus]

Is it ok for me to post a link to it? I've been away from here so long I can't remember if that is allowed here.... I know a lot of forums forbid external links....

 

[Jellyfish]

I"m pretty sure it's okay. Almost all the pics posted are external links. I see youtube links all the time.

 

[magiccannabus]

Ok here's a bunch of links about it!

The first link is to the discussion I quoted.

Posts by "Mother":
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/165934-first-attempt-24-hour-martian-method.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/172031-second-martian-method-attempt.html

This guy did a variation of the method. I think it may also be called the "Rauber" method.
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cabinet-closet-grow-room-setup/112512-calling-all-martians.html

Here is page 10 of a thread. I link to page 10 because dogznova posted the PAD manual, which is fairly hard to find.
https://www.*********.com/community/threads/phytochrome-manipulation.29747/page-10

Here is a discussion about PAD(Photosynthetic Artificial Darkness)
http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced...81403-photosynthetic-artificial-darkness.html

Here is an article that is related, though oddly enough is about doing it outside....
http://theleafonline.com/c/Business/2014/01/boosting-light-dep-production-for-maximum-roi/

I have seen other things about this in the past but am having a hard time finding them. Plenty to read from what I found already though....