Deficiency I'm trying to ID...Lots of Pics

[Imationkarl]

What type of medium; soil or hydro?
-50/50 coco/perlite

What brand and type of soil?
-Canna Coco and Aurora perlite #4

Indoors or outdoors?
-indoor

What strain?
-5 different strains, all showing the same deficiency at varying intensity.

How old are the plants?
-About 45 days. They have been in their current 3 gal pots for about 2-3 weeks.

What type of lights and how many watts?
-two 1,000watt MH

How far from the lights?
-18 inches. Canopy sits around 80degrees

What is your watering frequency and source of water?
-RO water. I water every day once the plants are rooted well.

What, how much and when was it fed? NPK?
-I feed every watering. Modified lucas formula.
-1ml/gal Pro-Tekt Silica (mix in and wait 5 min)
-4ml/gal Cal-Mag
-6ml/gal Jungle Juice Micro from AN
-9ml/gal Jungle JUice Bloom from AN

What is the medium/runoff pH and PPM if in hydro?
-I try to pH to 5.8 but I didn't check it for about 2 weeks because it started being 5.8 every time i made the solution. So this deficiency popped up and when I checked, I had been feeding them pH 6.2. So I did a small flush of 5.8 nutrient solution 3 days ago. No real improvement. The runoff pH started around 5 and slowly climbed to 5.8 as I flushed...

What are the temps and humidity in the room?
-The rooms are temporarily set up while I wait for the power company to do a 3-phase power upgrade next week. (Large, industrial medical grow.) Current temps at the plant canopy are around 80F and humidity 40-50%.

What size pots?
-They have been in 3 gal Smart Pots for a little less than a month. Repotting into 7gals soon.

Any bugs? Look real close.
-No bugs.

Any other pertinent info?
-DEFICIENCY IS ON BOTTOM HALF OF THE PLANT.

 

[Imationkarl]

Forgot to add, I usually water until I JUST see runoff, maybe a few tablespoons. Is this causing salt buildup...? Any advice is very welcome.

Thank you

 

[Dave Coulier]

I fertigate as well myself, but to do so you must monitor your media EC on a regular basis to ensure you're not over doing it. Invest in a Hannah suction lysimeter if you have an EC meter.

Your pics show some classic symptoms of N deficiency, but fertigating should be providing enough N, but without knowing the ppm of N in your nutes Im not 100% sure. There could be an alternative culprit for the reason of the symptoms, and there usually is: root-health, pH, and EC of your soil solution. Id look for some answers there.

You could be experiencing salt build-up if you are fertigating these plants every day. How often are you watering/feeding them?

 

[Imationkarl]

PPM is about 1,000. I feed every day. N deficiency, huh? I'll look into that, I was thinking Ca or P.

Thank you!

 

[loveOG]

Have you used a scope to inspect the medium? Looks similar to ra damage. They are hard to see.

 

[Imationkarl]

Root aphids? Okay, I will check.

 

[loveOG]

Root aphids? Okay, I will check.

yeah there is a potato trick where you put a slice on top the medium, and within a day they should be on the underside.

 

[Imationkarl]

Okay, I will do the potato trick right now. Can you see them on the potato with the naked eye or should I use a scope?

Just tested this watering:

Table 1
Going in- 5.8 pH and 1,902 uS
Run off- 5.8 pH and 2,244 uS

Table 2
Going in- 5.8 pH and 1,902 uS
Run off- 5.6 pH and 3,000 uS

Anything jumping out at you guys?

Thanks!

 

[DropDropDrop]

Could you show a whole plant pic? i think it looks most likely overfeeding, which causes locking of nutes.

 

[Imationkarl]

The plant as a whole is beautiful. I will get a pic up soon

 

[loveOG]

Okay, I will do the potato trick right now. Can you see them on the potato with the naked eye or should I use a scope?

Just tested this watering:

Table 1
Going in- 5.8 pH and 1,902 uS
Run off- 5.8 pH and 2,244 uS

Table 2
Going in- 5.8 pH and 1,902 uS
Run off- 5.6 pH and 3,000 uS

Anything jumping out at you guys?

Thanks!

you want a scope. If your food levels are coming out higher than what you are feeding then you are too high. Run half strength nutes till run off matches feeding levels and go back up after a dry out

 

[Imationkarl]

Okay, thank you very much loveOG. I will update tomorrow.

 

[Dave Coulier]

PPM is about 1,000. I feed every day. N deficiency, huh? I'll look into that, I was thinking Ca or P.

Thank you!

I just calculated the Nitrogen PPM of your ferts, and its supplying around 95ppm N. Feeding on a daily basis should be providing enough N even though Id recommend a higher level of N during early-mid flowering once we sort this issue out.

Just curious, do your plant really need watering every day? The only time Ive ever had to do that is if they're in very small containers. Im kinda surprised you have to water every day in 3 gallon pots. Over-watering can easily kill your root-hairs and limit uptake of nutrients.

As for P, a deficiency can mimic that of an N def, but this looks more like Nitrogen to me. As for Calcium, its an immobile element, so you'll see problems on the new growth, not older fan leaves.

Btw, watch the videos in my sig if you've not yet. You'll learn alot, then watch some more videos there too!

 

[QUANTUMeCANNics]

What type of medium; soil or hydro?





What is the medium/runoff pH and PPM if in hydro?
-I try to pH to 5.8 but I didn't check it for about 2 weeks because it started being 5.8 every time i made the solution. So this deficiency popped up and when I checked, I had been feeding them pH 6.2. So I did a small flush of 5.8 nutrient solution 3 days ago. No real improvement. The runoff pH started around 5 and slowly climbed to 5.8 as I flushed...



Any other pertinent info?
-DEFICIENCY IS ON BOTTOM HALF OF THE PLANT.

Quick Thought...I think you might have answered your own question. I haven't grown coco in a while but if I remember correctly it was very pH sensitive. A slight pH indifference might have locked out the N, which would have manifested in chlorotic leaves that present toward the bottom of the plant.

 

[Granger2]

Yes it "looks" like text book N def., especially on bottom of plant. Shedding lower leaves can be caused by lack o' light, and combined with lower N in the chow...

For the potato RA test, I'd use a magnifying glass with a wide field of view. It's enough magnification, just be quick, cuz they will haul ass. Also do it in good light with your glasses on if you use them.

Dave C.'s right about watering. They'll grow roots faster. They don't need it everyday till they've got a big root system. Water, pick up container, mental note weight. Check weight daily. Don't water till your feel a good difference in weight, then water to 20%+ runoff. Good luck. -granger

 

[Imationkarl]

I water every 2-3 days as needed but, as you'll see the in the pics, I actually have to water every 18 hours or so to keep the coco from completely drying. They are very rooted.

I think I am going to start a grow log up here after such a great response I got. I can't find any more sick leaves, I've just been actually monitoring my pH to 5.8 (I didn't check pH for a while and it ran high locking phosphorus out, I believe.) and waiting for good run off.

So here's some more pictures for you guys to put things to scale. I have 7,500sq ft to develop. We just got power so I will be closing up the walls on the new rooms shortly and I'll be up in running. Setup is drain to waste, 2 flower rooms on a flip and 1 veg room. eight 1000watts in each flower, 2 over each 4x8 table.

In the photos you can see the 3 rooms, temporarily set up, and some of the equipment. Still waiting on 1 more CAN150 filter and 4 maxfans. I should be finishing construction and moving these plants into flower in the next 10 days. (they will be one plant per 1000 watt light.)

 

[QUANTUMeCANNics]

Very Cool!! Best of luck in the new spot!!

 

[JointOperation]

I had so many issues with coco.. until I found canna coco.. and use canna coco a and b with rhizotonic.. cannazym.. pk13/14 and bio boost.. it was fucking amazing.. some of the best tasting and smellin buds I have ever grown.. the problem being.. 20 a bag of coco.. expensive.. if im paying that .. ill buy ocean forest.. and not have to use nearly as much nutrients.

 

[Imationkarl]

I get canna for about $11 a bag through a local distributor I used to work for. and I might try and reuse it. the nutrients I'm using are so dirt cheap. I just got 5 gal jugs of JUngle Juice micro and bloom by AN for like $140. That, cal/mag and silica is it. some people still use a bloom booster but i'm not sure if I will.

 

[NEGT1]

I had so many issues with coco.. until I found canna coco.. and use canna coco a and b with rhizotonic.. cannazym.. pk13/14 and bio boost.. it was fucking amazing.. some of the best tasting and smellin buds I have ever grown.. the problem being.. 20 a bag of coco.. expensive.. if im paying that .. ill buy ocean forest.. and not have to use nearly as much nutrients.

That's what I find odd. People can't grow from bricked coco so they go buy charged coco....it makes no sense to me.

I'd rather learn how to properly amend coco with a little from the bottle, it's a lot cheaper than paying 20$ a bag for expanded coco.