Neem Oil and Pyrethrin ... use 1 or both?

[gogetta4293]

i just picked up some pyrethin and Neem oil ...im 38 days into veg and so far ive been foliar feeding by alternating water and very light mix of fox farms gb/bb ...they will be outside for good sept. 1st to immediately start flowering...so now i want to prep for the bugs..i have these to in particular (pictured below), and i was wondering if i should just be using 1 or the other??...is is best to rotate them???....or is there a mixture of both that i can use....ive heard some say that they stop using neem in flower, but continue to use pyrethrin as needed....any and all advice welcome...thanks ahead!!!....GG

 

[CannaGen]

You're on the right track I think. I have a small outdoor grow and I use a 3 gallon garden sprayer, get a good one of those for starters as you will be spraying a lot. I use both products you have there, spraying more or less once a week, rotating both. One week spray the neem, next week spray the pyrethrin. It will take care of a lot of different pests and its a good preventative, however it will not take care of absolutely everything. I've got monster killer grasshoppers this year that pretty much nothing stops, I do believe my spray regime is slowing them down though.

I like to use the sprays late in the evening, just before dark, just to be safe. I think the label suggests this on most Neem products too, as plants can sort of burn in direct, hot sunlight right after being sprayed sometimes. Or I have done it on a cloudy, overcast day where temps are lower outside.

Put up bluebird houses next to your plants! I'm serious. Or some shelter for whatever indigenous bird you have around that eats a lot of bugs. I watch bluebirds occasionally sitting on my plants and picking hoppers off them. I have 4 bird houses within close range of them.

I do try to stop using the sprays once flowering begins or after about 3 weeks into flowering at the very latest. Just a preference thing I guess as I don't believe any actual damage would be done spraying through flower, but with the Neem your harvest would taste awful if you sprayed too late. I did save one indoor plant recently that is a spider-mite magnet, by spraying Neem in week 4 of flowering, but it's an 11 week strain, so the Neem photo-degrades I believe and there's not a hint of the smell in the finished product.

And most of all go to the garden with peace in your heart. Don't be pissed off at the bugs, they are part of nature providing biomass and energy to the overall ecosystem they are a part of. I actually have one entire plant that at this point I consider to be the sacrificial plant. It got eaten so badly by grasshoppers that it's yellowing and heavily stressed. I am letting them have it for the most part.. yes that's right, letting them have it. Sometimes if you choose not to use harsh chemicals, like we have with these organic sprays, you live with a little bit of "nature" going on. Just the way I see it. Peace and fruitful harvests.

 

[gogetta4293]

You're on the right track I think. I have a small outdoor grow and I use a 3 gallon garden sprayer, get a good one of those for starters as you will be spraying a lot. I use both products you have there, spraying more or less once a week, rotating both. One week spray the neem, next week spray the pyrethrin. It will take care of a lot of different pests and its a good preventative, however it will not take care of absolutely everything. I've got monster killer grasshoppers this year that pretty much nothing stops, I do believe my spray regime is slowing them down though.

I like to use the sprays late in the evening, just before dark, just to be safe. I think the label suggests this on most Neem products too, as plants can sort of burn in direct, hot sunlight right after being sprayed sometimes. Or I have done it on a cloudy, overcast day where temps are lower outside.

Put up bluebird houses next to your plants! I'm serious. Or some shelter for whatever indigenous bird you have around that eats a lot of bugs. I watch bluebirds occasionally sitting on my plants and picking hoppers off them. I have 4 bird houses within close range of them.

I do try to stop using the sprays once flowering begins or after about 3 weeks into flowering at the very latest. Just a preference thing I guess as I don't believe any actual damage would be done spraying through flower, but with the Neem your harvest would taste awful if you sprayed too late. I did save one indoor plant recently that is a spider-mite magnet, by spraying Neem in week 4 of flowering, but it's an 11 week strain, so the Neem photo-degrades I believe and there's not a hint of the smell in the finished product.

And most of all go to the garden with peace in your heart. Don't be pissed off at the bugs, they are part of nature providing biomass and energy to the overall ecosystem they are a part of. I actually have one entire plant that at this point I consider to be the sacrificial plant. It got eaten so badly by grasshoppers that it's yellowing and heavily stressed. I am letting them have it for the most part.. yes that's right, letting them have it. Sometimes if you choose not to use harsh chemicals, like we have with these organic sprays, you live with a little bit of "nature" going on. Just the way I see it. Peace and fruitful harvests.

Thanks Canna! That sounds like a good idea...exactly what I was considering...the store clerk said that the pyrethrin has a stickin agent already, but it's safe to put a drop or 2 of dish liquid soap or a tbls of vegetable oil to the diluted mix of both the neem and pyrethrin....GG

 

[Granger2]

Good practical idea, letting the grasshoppers have one plant that they are more attracted to. You can also get a bait that has a disease specific to GHers. Works well because they cannabalize their dead which spreads the disease. Good luck. -granger

 

[ozzieAI]

neem oil will amplify the effect of the pyrethin so less will be needed to be effective...generally i recommend a test spray to make sure you don't burn your plants when mixing the 2...

good luck

 

[cyat]

pyrethrin burns... that 100 % neem oil is a mess.. i only use the 70 % neem , super clean and effective

 

[gogetta4293]

Good practical idea, letting the grasshoppers have one plant that they are more attracted to. You can also get a bait that has a disease specific to GHers. Works well because they cannabalize their dead which spreads the disease. Good luck. -granger

Ok I'll have to do a lil more research on those specific types..

neem oil will amplify the effect of the pyrethin so less will be needed to be effective...generally i recommend a test spray to make sure you don't burn your plants when mixing the 2...

good luck

I won't mix them unless u mean mixing them by alternating...I'll start with neem 1 week then pyrethrin the next...both probably at more/less medium strength ..at least to get my feet wet...or the leaves..lol..I also will add a light dose of the pure neem diluted with water to my watering once a week also...theres a thread named "PNO V HNO" by ozzieAI >>>(https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5897334#post5897334 <<< that gives information on experience with drenching my medium(ocean forest) with only PURE neem oil that promotes vigorous growth and helps the plant become resistant against pesticides, bugs, etc...

pyrethrin burns... that 100 % neem oil is a mess.. i only use the 70 % neem , super clean and effective

Thanks Cyat..I'm gonna try a lighter dosage until I learn my plants tolerance...the same article I listed above expresses how 100% neem (for example the Dyna Gro I bought) is more effective than the 70% pre-made one because there's something called Aza(azadirachtin) which is the main active ingredient for fighting insects that still ll exists in the 100%, but was removed from all the others...idk we'll see...as long as it doesn't stress the ladies out ill give it a try....GG

 

[barnyard]

alternate weeks...one week neem and Dr. bonner's soap...the next week diatomaceous earth

 

[TheDCCX]

Mix D.E. right into water and spray on, Barnyard?

 

[TheDCCX]

And how much? Ppm? Grams/Liter?

 

[cyat]

nothing is removed it has 30% emulsifier and works much better since it actually mixes... dyna gro neem sticks to everything nasty stuff imo...

 

[gogetta4293]

Is this early thrip damage?? The colors of the spots haven't changed
n over a Week but I haven't seen her in 2 days so today I will see if maybe it's gettin worse...nor have the spots spread over the whole plant, but a leaf of the new growth also has these spots.

Or maybe light/heat stress considering the fact that I've been leavin her outside every day in 90 + temps & bringing her back in before it's night cycle...maybe not because it's not on all leaves nor any other plant...though the other plant is a different strain also...

They're also in very small pots at about 6 weeks from seed now and I haven't fed them in a couple waterings now because today they will go in 5 gallon pots of ocean forest with a lil perlite added, and from what I understand from reading multiple times, it's HOTT so the ladies will catch up on nutes when I transplant...

Idk....if so though I'm just gonna go ahead and go BACK to the store n get spinosad..can never have too much for the ladies...they're just like real women...money AND time consuming!!! Lol...jus kiddin...GG

 

[ozzieAI]

pyrethrin burns... that 100 % neem oil is a mess.. i only use the 70 % neem , super clean and effective

nothing is removed it has 30% emulsifier and works much better since it actually mixes... dyna gro neem sticks to everything nasty stuff imo...

70% neem oil (hydrophodic) has had the majority of the active ingredients removed through alcohol extraction...read that link the OP posted or the one in my sig...

mixing the neem oil and pyrethrin together i found to be very effective, but used the pyrethrin at 25% strength...

have you checked under the leaves for spidermites?

 

[vostok]

Pyrethrin breaks down too quick under UV, but neem oil is the way to go, not too close to harvest as Neem is an acquired taste, that said Neem Oil is systemic too, plants drink it up, and makes life horrid for sap suckers

 

[gogetta4293]

70% neem oil (hydrophodic) has had the majority of the active ingredients removed through alcohol extraction...read that link the OP posted or the one in my sig...

mixing the neem oil and pyrethrin together i found to be very effective, but used the pyrethrin at 25% strength...

have you checked under the leaves for spidermites?

Yes I have, but the leaves look exactly the same for over a week now..I would imagine some type of damage would show by now...I'm gonna do the mix though the same way u did with the pyrethrin at 25%..I read your links Ozzie..great info! Thanks for the guys...GG

 

[Greyskull]

I love the dyna grow cold pressed neem oil
It's my friend
I like to warm it up in a hot water bath (the whole bottle gets to sit in the hot water for a few min) to make it more liquid/less wax. While it's warming up I grab my sprayer and start filling it 1/2 full with warm water....

When time to mix, it's pretty easy:
2 tablespoons (30ml) neem + 2 tea spoons (10ml) dish soap (I like lemon joy) per gallon of water. Then, Shake it up shake it up shake it up
Spray either early am or just before sunset... Though I've sprayed middle of night too, no trouble.
I spray veg thru flower (wk 6)
bonus.... Week 4 (days 29-35) I like to also add Dipel @ 2 tablespoons per G to keep caterpillars away.

I recently tried pyrethrin. I didn't do a test plant. And I used at recommended rates... Fucking burn baby burn. Oops. Won't do that again...

Aloha

 

[gogetta4293]

I love the dyna grow cold pressed neem oil
It's my friend
I like to warm it up in a hot water bath (the whole bottle gets to sit in the hot water for a few min) to make it more liquid/less wax. While it's warming up I grab my sprayer and start filling it 1/2 full with warm water....

When time to mix, it's pretty easy:
2 tablespoons (30ml) neem + 2 tea spoons (10ml) dish soap (I like lemon joy) per gallon of water. Then, Shake it up shake it up shake it up
Spray either early am or just before sunset... Though I've sprayed middle of night too, no trouble.
I spray veg thru flower (wk 6)
bonus.... Week 4 (days 29-35) I like to also add Dipel @ 2 tablespoons per G to keep caterpillars away.

I recently tried pyrethrin. I didn't do a test plant. And I used at recommended rates... Fucking burn baby burn. Oops. Won't do that again...

Aloha

Thanks Greyskull for the knowledge also....your mix sounds good..I'll do like Ozzie said on page 1. Add 25% pyrethrin to the mix but 1st I may mix it in a separate bottle to test a plant just in case of having o dilute it I won't be diluting the neem too. Thanks for backing up the Dyna Gro! I feel good about buying it now! Lol..the horticulturist at the shop says pyrethrin is the best solution to cats hands down when used right. I'll also look up the Dipel for a backup plan too though...GG

 

[Greyskull]

how'd things go for you?
did you mix the pyrethrin in, too?

aloha

 

[gogetta4293]

how'd things go for you?
did you mix the pyrethrin in, too?

aloha

Yes! Worked great with a light dose..none on the new growth. ..GG