And there was no improvement?
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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
- Thread starter high life 45
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And there was no improvement?
Well the person sprayed preventively new cuts. They turned out duds. Nothing to compare to. I don't know any one in real life that has run a dud strain more than once. The people I know who've seen it tossed whatever it was. Everyone who has run a dud strain over and over that I know of are all on this thread somewhere.
I queried Google, "how many species of Ditylenchus dipsaci are there?
That was one of the pages that came up. I know I had seen it before, but thought it germane to the discussion of how many species there were. They say only two. What's amazing is how much ambiguity there is in regards to these, and how there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus, all of which kind of underscores the necessity of sending samples in so people know exactly what they are dealing with, among the many possibilities.
Also, notice that they did not list alfalfa as one of the hosts at all, so who are you going to believe, and how do you make sense of all the differing information?
im working on it and have sent in several. only one since we became aware of the nematodes. at that point i had a part of the plant that had a much lower chance of having the todes but am working to acquire more samples of dudded plants and am sourcing a better microscope to do the preliminary screening so as to not just spin my wheels. i have bubble bags lol. i may attempt some filtering of macerated stems in a small amount of water to isolate them and put on slides for viewing.
i am fully prepared to ship live nematodes to anyone in the world if need be to discern the particular species and or variant or race.
nematodes isolated in water is as proposed by sam and locdawg.
great suggestion. ill see if i can accomplish this.
also im looking for 2.5 uninterupted hours to manage a 112 degree fresh cutting soak to see if plants tolerate it. the test i did for 110 degrees didnt kill the plant but was only 30 minutes.
the temp did swing for a minute or two at a time to 112 so i know that it at least can tolerate that temp somewhat.
the temp is shown to kill 100 percent of this species of nematodes after 2.5 hours. im guessing it would also prove fatal to other races of the same species.
it sounds like retro and others did this at 115 with catastrophic results.
if anyone can submerge and soak a fresh cutting regardless of todes at 112 degrees for 2.5 hours please do so and report back. im seldom able to do this. monitor for adjusting heat. i use hot tap water. when the temp dips i stir while i ad a slow stream of hot water. careful to shut it before it gets over my mark.
stir frequently but not so much that youre agitating the plant too much.
my method for submerginging the cut, i wedge the cut between two wire tines of a bakers wisk then submerge the wisk. works really well.
that to me sounds like the most attractive way to eliminate the todes from your gentic stock if it could work.
if so, it would just be a matter of taking heaps of cuttings from everything you want to save and dipping in this temp water with the aforementioned formaldehyde solution. assuming that the solution doesnt change the plants temp tolerance (easy to find out) this is a much safer method and honestly i feel it would be more thorough than the chems or biologicals however none of those methods would be mutually exclusive to this if they appealed to you.
lets determine if we can kill these with heat without killing the plants.
my hesitance with thinking the the hot air treatment will work is that these are internal. even though the plants surface temps may reach the air temp, the act of transpiring to deal with the heat is going to keep leaf and definitely internal tissue much cooler. we wont see these temps inside the plant as it will be cooled through evaporative heat displacement.
these folks look like a lively bunch! think they like to get high?
maybe we should conveniently book an icmag cup at the same venue on the same day of their next wild ass get together.
http://www.nematologists.org/
maybe we should conveniently book an icmag cup at the same venue on the same day of their next wild ass get together.
http://www.nematologists.org/
To submit samples for nematode diagnoses, or for questions, please contact: Nematology Laboratory, Plant Pest Diagnostics Branch, California Department of Food and Agriculture, 3294 Meadowview Road, Sacramento, CA 95832-1448, or call the Nematology Laboratory at 916-262-1100, fax number: 916-262-1190.
The following is a compilation of various things posted earlier all of which had some positive results, so I am re-posting some of them to make it easier to research. Links included for further reading:
Formaldehyde is routinely used in hot water treatment for the control of narcissus basal rot (caused by Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. narcissi) and stem and bulb eelworm (Ditylenchus dipsaci). It does not kill all the thick walled chlamydospores of F. oxysporum. Four chemicals were evaluated for their efficacy against F. oxysporum by comparing them with the standard formaldehyde rate. At rates of 0.25% a.i. or more, a glutaraldehyde formulation (Cidex) killed 100% of spores within 160 min. Peratol, a hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid containing formulation, gave 100% kill after 80 min at a concentration of 0.5%. A thiabendazole formulation (Storite Clear Liquid) killed all the chlamydospores. Decon 90 failed to control the fungus adequately.
Formaldehyde (as 0.5% commercial formalin) gave good, but not total, control of the fungus but, at higher rates (2.5%), caused flower malformation and corkiness of bulb base plates.
The results suggest that Cidex and Peratol, as they are more effective than formaldehyde in controlling the fungus and less unpleasant to use, may be suitable replacements.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0434.1991.tb01200.x/abstract
Heat Treatments, Wet & Dry: POst 1327
http://books.google.com/books?id=LT...ydrogen peroxide, Ditylenchus dipsaci&f=false
Peroxyacetic acid:
http://www.ces.uoguelph.ca/water/PATHOGEN/PeroxyaceticAcid.pdf
http://www.ovguide.com/ditylenchus-dipsaci-9202a8c04000641f80000000057df86e#
Ditylenchus dipsaci is a plant pathogenic nematode that primarily infects onion and garlic. It is commonly known as the stem nematode, the stem and bulb eelworm or onion bloat. Symptoms of infection include stunted growth, discoloration of bulbs, and swollen stems. D. dipsaci is a migratory endoparasite that has a five-stage life cycle and the ability to enter into a dormancy stage. D. dipsaci enters through stoma or plant wounds and create galls or malformations in plant growth. This allows for the entrance of secondary pathogens like fungi and bacteria. Management of disease is maintained through seed sanitation, heat treatment, crop rotation, and fumigation of fields. D. dipsaci is economically detrimental because infected crops are unmarketable.
Check the links for times and temperatures and species.
Formaldehyde is routinely used in hot water treatment for the control of narcissus basal rot (caused by Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. narcissi) and stem and bulb eelworm (Ditylenchus dipsaci). It does not kill all the thick walled chlamydospores of F. oxysporum. Four chemicals were evaluated for their efficacy against F. oxysporum by comparing them with the standard formaldehyde rate. At rates of 0.25% a.i. or more, a glutaraldehyde formulation (Cidex) killed 100% of spores within 160 min. Peratol, a hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid containing formulation, gave 100% kill after 80 min at a concentration of 0.5%. A thiabendazole formulation (Storite Clear Liquid) killed all the chlamydospores. Decon 90 failed to control the fungus adequately.
Formaldehyde (as 0.5% commercial formalin) gave good, but not total, control of the fungus but, at higher rates (2.5%), caused flower malformation and corkiness of bulb base plates.
The results suggest that Cidex and Peratol, as they are more effective than formaldehyde in controlling the fungus and less unpleasant to use, may be suitable replacements.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0434.1991.tb01200.x/abstract
Heat Treatments, Wet & Dry: POst 1327
http://books.google.com/books?id=LT...ydrogen peroxide, Ditylenchus dipsaci&f=false
Peroxyacetic acid:
http://www.ces.uoguelph.ca/water/PATHOGEN/PeroxyaceticAcid.pdf
http://www.ovguide.com/ditylenchus-dipsaci-9202a8c04000641f80000000057df86e#
Ditylenchus dipsaci is a plant pathogenic nematode that primarily infects onion and garlic. It is commonly known as the stem nematode, the stem and bulb eelworm or onion bloat. Symptoms of infection include stunted growth, discoloration of bulbs, and swollen stems. D. dipsaci is a migratory endoparasite that has a five-stage life cycle and the ability to enter into a dormancy stage. D. dipsaci enters through stoma or plant wounds and create galls or malformations in plant growth. This allows for the entrance of secondary pathogens like fungi and bacteria. Management of disease is maintained through seed sanitation, heat treatment, crop rotation, and fumigation of fields. D. dipsaci is economically detrimental because infected crops are unmarketable.
Check the links for times and temperatures and species.
Everything Foliar with the exception of Kontos.... I'll do both drench and Foliar...
You can mix them all up also...they are all compatible with each other
Fuck, I'm kind of curious if I may be experiencing some of these same issues. I've noticed some of this brown streaking in a couple iffy plants I just harvested...
Thanks for everybody contributing. Time to start doing some research myself.
Edit:
So I'm curious... and this may be very redundant, but just want to share some thoughts.
It's definitely looking like stem nematodes are the culprit for all of the dudding. Now, my first assumption would be that more people have these fuckers than expected, as from what it seems they can remain dormant until conditions are right for them... So would it be easy to assume that this has been a problem for some time, and that people growing a larger scale just never really thought too much about it when seeing a handful of plants being of lower quality than others...? Then just shaking it off as minor issues, some plants not handling certain environmental/feed/ph issues as well as others? And now that people are really looking into it, a lot of people are agreeing that they are seeing the same shit, caused by the assumed stem nematodes...
What I find odd, is now we're seeing people that are getting full room devastation, chopping early, etc.
So, regarding the cannabis industry, is this something that may have been hiding in the closet for a while, under the cloak of incorrect diagnosis, and is just now being understood and talked about? Or is this something that is completely new... like a new BM/RA type issue except much worse? People are trading cuts at a rate higher than ever, so whichever is true, obviously it's going to be spreading like wildfire.
I don't know if anybody has an answer to those thoughts, my post is more rhetorical than anything... I'm sure everyone would love to know, but the most important thing is getting rid of the problem, of course.
So whether or not I'm affected by this, I appreciate that so many intelligent minds are researching and devising a plan for the best course of action, as far as preventative measures and eradication, or providing conditions that are less favorable to the little kunts.
I'll be following along. Good vibes to everyone and their gardens.
Cheers.
Thanks for everybody contributing. Time to start doing some research myself.
Edit:
So I'm curious... and this may be very redundant, but just want to share some thoughts.
It's definitely looking like stem nematodes are the culprit for all of the dudding. Now, my first assumption would be that more people have these fuckers than expected, as from what it seems they can remain dormant until conditions are right for them... So would it be easy to assume that this has been a problem for some time, and that people growing a larger scale just never really thought too much about it when seeing a handful of plants being of lower quality than others...? Then just shaking it off as minor issues, some plants not handling certain environmental/feed/ph issues as well as others? And now that people are really looking into it, a lot of people are agreeing that they are seeing the same shit, caused by the assumed stem nematodes...
What I find odd, is now we're seeing people that are getting full room devastation, chopping early, etc.
So, regarding the cannabis industry, is this something that may have been hiding in the closet for a while, under the cloak of incorrect diagnosis, and is just now being understood and talked about? Or is this something that is completely new... like a new BM/RA type issue except much worse? People are trading cuts at a rate higher than ever, so whichever is true, obviously it's going to be spreading like wildfire.
I don't know if anybody has an answer to those thoughts, my post is more rhetorical than anything... I'm sure everyone would love to know, but the most important thing is getting rid of the problem, of course.
So whether or not I'm affected by this, I appreciate that so many intelligent minds are researching and devising a plan for the best course of action, as far as preventative measures and eradication, or providing conditions that are less favorable to the little kunts.
I'll be following along. Good vibes to everyone and their gardens.
Cheers.
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These creatures have been around for hundreds of millions of years. They are one of the most prolific life forms, found all over the world, and extremely adaptable. They are everywhere, and infect hundreds or thousands of plant types, including alfalfa, which is grown in the U.S., and people use alfalfa in their mixes/compost/teas, etc., so not really surprising that, with all the clone trading, it is spreading around. And it spreads through seeds also, which makes it doubly dangerous. Usually, when you buy seeds, you are not expecting a pathogen, with the exception of an occasional virus. Now, it seems that heat treating of seeds is on the table as a preventative measure. The more people growing in an area (Cali), the greater the danger of it spreading.
I can't think of anyone else who has experienced the rapid death of plants other than myself. Obsoul33ts partners outdoor plant that had the stem nematodes 'collapsed.' Has anyone else had plants rapidly wilt and die?
It's likely there were other contributing factors in the room that I recently chopped early.
It's likely there were other contributing factors in the room that I recently chopped early.
well we know that dudding is often in conjunction with other root diseases. my guess is it was overcome with disease due to lack of vigor. pythium fusarium or any number of other root diseases can cause die off.
Yes, the stem break caused by nematodes leaves the plant wide open to fusarium and others, which will cause rapid die off. That's one of the things that testing will verify, and just another reason to emphasize getting your duds tested.
To submit samples for nematode diagnoses, or for questions, please contact: Nematology Laboratory, Plant Pest Diagnostics Branch, California Department of Food and Agriculture, 3294 Meadowview Road, Sacramento, CA 95832-1448, or call the Nematology Laboratory at 916-262-1100, fax number: 916-262-1190.
Hmmm.....that brings back memories....I had really bad athlete's foot, and had to soak my feet in potassiun permanganate. It turned my feet purple. Wouldn't want to use it on cannabis, though. We already have plenty of fungicides. What we need here is nematocides.
Give it a rest. You have already seen the pictures, and dismissed them as grower error. You were & are wrong, but not man enough to admit it. It's all about arguing with you. Watt even posted videos, but I guess you dismiss those too. Earlier, you said you could identify problems with each and every one of the plants whose pictures were posted, and that they were not caused by pathogens. Do you really want me to pull up the posts? That was a rhetorical question. I'm really not interested in arguing or discussing anything about this issue which you know nothing about. You enjoy arguing, but it's really just a waste of everyone's time. The issue has been identified. There is nothing to argue about, and I (we?) have nothing to prove to you. I would have you on ignore, but it's not my policy, and if you were ignored, there would be no one to call you out on your baseless statements. I will not be responding to whatever you have to say about this post, because it's counter productive. Nematodes are real, and if you still want to deny that, well, you haven't been paying attention. We know they are real, and all these growers who have experienced them are not crazy.
I think your comment was directed towards me.
Nematodes aren't a foreign concept to me, I'm well aware that they are prolific in nature, possibly one of the earliest forms of life... From beneficial nematodes that are abundant in and play a crucial role in nature, to predatory and parasitic nematodes, etc... they are literally everywhere. Forests floors, soil, plants, volcanic vents on ocean floors, inside animals, fresh water... Very interesting creatures, if you're a science/nature nerd anyway.
Anywho... My point was...
So why are we just now seeing these issues in the cannabis growing paradigm? I wonder, if they are actually very common in everyone's gardens and have been for some time, but with the vast amount of trading between growers, they are beginning to take a stronger hold, rather than be isolated between plant to plant and garden to garden... allowing them to spread freely over time to now become an actual problem. Are certain conditions and/or other problems causing them to flourish?
The cannabis growing community is a very interesting thing... a prime definition of a clusterfuck.
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