What are your thoughts on Density?

[Caravaggio]

And would you mostly consider a buds final density a result more of:

a. Genetics
b. Light intensity
c. rh during flower
d. drying conditions





I personally feel its A and a bit of B. Mostly A. Been doing a lot of experimenting on this lately.

 

[30years]

a & b. c for trichome concentration and d for smoke quality.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

genetics and I will agree with quality of trichome field. Exceptional resin does a lot to contribute to overall weight, which kind of goes back to genetics because some strains just have better resin then others.

I have seen good strains go bad but never a bad strain go good, if it's not there to begin with it probably wont be there no matter how well you grow it.

OG kush for example has unprecedented density due to its bud structure but I have also seen impressive weight from fox tailed buds with exceptional resin.

Aside from genetics I think nutirents play a big role and can dramatically alter the final product.

 

[theJointedOne]

all of the above, also add plant health to that list. IMo a healthy, nutrient dense plant is going to have thicker, healthier cells, cell walls, plant tissue, ect.

 

[Caravaggio]

Aside from genetics I think nutirents play a big role and can dramatically alter the final product.

interesting. I personally think Nutrients have very little to do with it.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

interesting. I personally think Nutrients have very little to do with it.

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I have been playing around with different stuff for years and I think nutrients and nutrient sources make a huge difference.

I have some clones I have been growing for years and I have had them turn out epic and I have had them turn out like crap just by altering the nutrient sources.

But that's just my observation, not really here to convince anyone.

I grow organically however, maybe if you are just grabbing any popular chemical nutrient off the shelf of the hydro store you don't notice a difference because they are all pretty much made up of the same stuff so bottle A vs bottle B doesnt make much of a difference.

 

[mazar_man]

interesting. I personally think Nutrients have very little to do with it.

For sure nutrients can have a huge amount to do with bud density. Bud density is largely related to final internode length within the bud and this can be affected by too much ammonium form nitrate, too much phosphorous and too high a nitrogen to potassium ratio.. all well known facts in plant nutrition. Too low an EC can also lower bud density as it allows cell walls to pull too much water which makes them expand more.

A, B & C all effect bud density.. D not so much. I would also add:

E - hormones especially cytokinins (kinetin etc.) as these divert lateral plant growth.

F - DIF the closer your day and night temperature are together the denser the buds

D - Temperature - cooler daily average temps make denser nugs.

 

[St. Phatty]

You say Density, I think Purple Trainwreck.

She keeps throwing out pistils, without fox-tailing. I keep checking for early signs of mold.

 

[SourDank]

To me even different bottled nutrients make a big difference because sometimes they mix the nutirents at different ratios, or have some macronutrients that aren't in others. And then when you get to micronutrients they can differ even more so if they're even in there.

To say different nutrients don't make a difference is incorrect if you ask me. And I know you can always include those other nutrients in other ways but if were talking one brand base nutrients vs another they can be very very different.

 

[madalasatori]

I think air temps have amuch higher impact than rh

 

[z-ro]

All of the above

 

[bigbag]

Superbud, Phosphoload, Megabud, Flower Dragon, Mr.No!, Bushmaster, etc... aka "hardeners". many in the $100/L price point, and neglect to tell you what's actually contained ( none say they have paclo )

 

[Huel Perkins]

Genetics are at least 75% of the equation, light intensity is another 20% and environment (rh and temps, assuming you're at least the ballpark) would be the other 5%.

Some strains no matter what will never produce rock solid buds...

I have been growing a AK-47 pheno that i love for the last 7 or so years, it produces huge buds but they aren't dense at all. In the curing containers i use, one container well packed will hold 2-2.5 zips of AK-47 but it will hold at least 7-8 zips of a really dense strain like SFV OG or Ghost OG.

Long story short, if you're buds are fluffy and not dense its most likely the genetics.

 

[bambi]

Superbud, Phosphoload, Megabud, Flower Dragon, Mr.No!, Bushmaster, etc... aka "hardeners". many in the $100/L price point, and neglect to tell you what's actually contained ( none say they have paclo )

Good point this, ive never found any of these products to be of much use really, all were doing is feeding the plant extra this or that we can do on our own anyhow,

The day or night before chopping down a plant I always give them plain water to harden the buds before the chop chop, works just the same ive found, mind you this merely helps with bag appeal and not yield,

My abc answer would be - A genetic's, nutrients or temps can have huge effects also, then again no effect at all depending on genetics,

old super skunk was used by breeders such as soma used it for its density in cross's and other traits, I found the same thing myself with the s/s giving me the most dense plants ive ever encountered in every cross made, not meaning they stay this way once worked on etc but a great start none the less. - b

 

[Caravaggio]

For sure nutrients can have a huge amount to do with bud density. Bud density is largely related to final internode length within the bud and this can be affected by too much ammonium form nitrate, too much phosphorous and too high a nitrogen to potassium ratio.. all well known facts in plant nutrition. Too low an EC can also lower bud density as it allows cell walls to pull too much water which makes them expand more.

A, B & C all effect bud density.. D not so much. I would also add:

E - hormones especially cytokinins (kinetin etc.) as these divert lateral plant growth.

F - DIF the closer your day and night temperature are together the denser the buds

D - Temperature - cooler daily average temps make denser nugs.

Do you have a scientific souce for this info or just stuff you have read on the internet?

 

[mazar_man]

Do you have a scientific souce for this info or just stuff you have read on the internet?

Pretty much none of it came from the internet.. came from working in the non-cannabis professional horticulture world for 25 years and growing weed for 20. Substitute "bud density" for stuff like "internode reduction" and "lateral growth response" or "vegetative vs generative growth" you will find a shit tonne of journal articles etc.. Cannabis is the not the first industry to care about such things.

 

[mazar_man]

I think air temps have amuch higher impact than rh

for sure! low temp rooms pump out the hardest frostiest nugs for sure.. RH makes a difference but infinitely smaller than the dif between a 80F room and a 72F room.

 

[Caravaggio]

Pretty much none of it came from the internet.. came from working in the non-cannabis professional horticulture world for 25 years and growing weed for 20. Substitute "bud density" for stuff like "internode reduction" and "lateral growth response" or "vegetative vs generative growth" you will find a shit tonne of journal articles etc.. Cannabis is the not the first industry to care about such things.

They don't seem to address density however. Just internodal length which i find most easily controlled with lower temp variances from night to day

 

[mazar_man]

isn't density really just a combination internode length and harder cell growth? If you are happy with the way your internodes are stacking inside the bud structure just focus on harder cell growth. Easiest of which imo is lowering day temps during finish, there are other aspects that can be fine tuned for harder cell growth (i.e. manipulating water availabilty during cell expansion) but temps alone are likely enough to keep most people happy. If you want journal articles to back that up to I am sure you will find many.