Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[WaittillIdie]

I mean seriously 50 plants at once,amazing. You grow out one big one during the summer and use it all year. Saving a couple buds here in there for a long special cure till you get a nice cured stash built up.

 

[monsoon]

For the time being, the State is still allowing extended counts. They've tried to tighten this up but the last try a few months ago went nowhere. Keep in mind that these extended counts for medical came about as an addendum when the >medical< dispensaries were "legitimized" and are not a part of the original wording of Amendment 20...therefore, these specific rules can be changed at any time.

Getting an extended count has not been a problem for a lot of folks. Whether a person can get these numbers depends entirely on the doctor you see or how sick you can prove you are. Keep in mind that medical protection here offers an affirmative defense for you to argue your need but it doesn't guarantee, and has never guaranteed, that you will not end up in court. As a result, getting the count from a reputable doctor who will SHOW UP in court to defend your medical need if needed is definitely THE MOST important thing about finding a doctor. (at any level of involvement in the program)

50 outside? I'm not sure there's any legal restrictions on "locked and enclosed" in A20 as there are in A64. All I know is that years ago (2006?) when we had the GH and the teenagers in the neighborhood helped themselves and brought the cops to the house (through other circumstances, which is how it almost always goes down) the cops never said anything about us growing outside except "it probably wasn't the smartest move". LOL.

IMO, it would all depend on where you lived. In the city...LOL. 50 plants would be a magnet for every meth/crackhead and pot low life within 10 miles. In the sticks, if the deer and the bugs didn't eat it, and nobody found it, and it didn't snow/frost/FREEZE it on the stick and turn it to dust before it finished.... you might be able to make it work.

 

[LSWM]

Thanks for the info Monsoon. I cannot wait until the availability of this plant allows me to grow it in my front yard like any other vegetable. That, I believe, is the goal of most of us in this thread.

 

[LSWM]

I mean seriously 50 plants at once,amazing. You grow out one big one during the summer and use it all year. Saving a couple buds here in there for a long special cure till you get a nice cured stash built up.

There is no specific limit on plant #s with MMJ in CA. You can cultivate "as much as is necessary for your medical condition." This also leaves the judgement in the cops hands on whether you are doing "more than necessary". Although ultimate judgement is left in the hands of the courts. Most cases are thrown out unless there are clear illegal distribution charges pressed. You can also come together and collectively cultivate forother ppatients and be compensated fairly for your efforts. This means if you have written proof of your "collective" there is little chance of police involvement unless you are operating a "storefront dispensary" or are growing outdoors.

 

[Jhhnn]

For the time being, the State is still allowing extended counts. They've tried to tighten this up but the last try a few months ago went nowhere. Keep in mind that these extended counts for medical came about as an addendum when the >medical< dispensaries were "legitimized" and are not a part of the original wording of Amendment 20...therefore, these specific rules can be changed at any time.

Getting an extended count has not been a problem for a lot of folks. Whether a person can get these numbers depends entirely on the doctor you see or how sick you can prove you are. Keep in mind that medical protection here offers an affirmative defense for you to argue your need but it doesn't guarantee, and has never guaranteed, that you will not end up in court. As a result, getting the count from a reputable doctor who will SHOW UP in court to defend your medical need if needed is definitely THE MOST important thing about finding a doctor. (at any level of involvement in the program)

50 outside? I'm not sure there's any legal restrictions on "locked and enclosed" in A20 as there are in A64. All I know is that years ago (2006?) when we had the GH and the teenagers in the neighborhood helped themselves and brought the cops to the house (through other circumstances, which is how it almost always goes down) the cops never said anything about us growing outside except "it probably wasn't the smartest move". LOL.

IMO, it would all depend on where you lived. In the city...LOL. 50 plants would be a magnet for every meth/crackhead and pot low life within 10 miles. In the sticks, if the deer and the bugs didn't eat it, and nobody found it, and it didn't snow/frost/FREEZE it on the stick and turn it to dust before it finished.... you might be able to make it work.

A64 guarantees that you won't end up in state court when in compliance with public possession & personal growing provisions. The chances of ending up in federal court are also nil. None of them will even go there w/o solid proof of dealing or sizeable transport off property. As you've offered, it becomes an issue of what you want & need, also the size of your cojones.

At 65, I've come to regard discretion as the better part of valor, don't take chances that offer me little advantage. If I want to grow more, I'll just become a better grower, get more out of our 6 plant quota.

Here in CO, the marijuana war is basically over. Well, for anybody willing to let it be over. We won. Not absolutely everything. Respect for recreational users & truly personal growers is the biggest win of all, a profound shift in public sentiment from when I first got high back in 1967. It's a big change from MMJ as well, although people involved in that scene may have trouble recognizing that change for what it is.

 

[WaittillIdie]

A64 guarantees that you won't end up in state court when in compliance with public possession & personal growing provisions. The chances of ending up in federal court are also nil. None of them will even go there w/o solid proof of dealing or sizeable transport off property. As you've offered, it becomes an issue of what you want & need, also the size of your cojones.

At 65, I've come to regard discretion as the better part of valor, don't take chances that offer me little advantage. If I want to grow more, I'll just become a better grower, get more out of our 6 plant quota.

Here in CO, the marijuana war is basically over. Well, for anybody willing to let it be over. We won. Not absolutely everything. Respect for recreational users & truly personal growers is the biggest win of all, a profound shift in public sentiment from when I first got high back in 1967. It's a big change from MMJ as well, although people involved in that scene may have trouble recognizing that change for what it is.

That sounds like a nice law. It's like a different world over here. Too bad every state does not have this law written in. They still have laws from 1937 in a lot of states. That's why it might take a lot more states 10-20 years to implement these laws.

I don't even think the war is over in Colorado. Arn't cities outside Boulder and other places that are legal waging war on there fellow towns, they are called dry cities. I think California's war is still ongoing. In some places there you can't grow and there is alot of other rules in some counties in California. Parts of Texas may never become legal lol.

 

[Jhhnn]

That sounds like a nice law. It's like a different world over here. Too bad every state does not have this law written in. They still have laws from 1937 in a lot of states. That's why it might take a lot more states 10-20 years to implement these laws.

I don't even think the war is over in Colorado. Arn't cities outside Boulder and other places that are legal waging war on there fellow towns, they are called dry cities. I think California's war is still ongoing. In some places there you can't grow and there is alot of other rules in some counties in California. Parts of Texas may never become legal lol.

Cities & towns in CO have the right to prohibit/ restrict retail MJ & MMJ establishments, but that's it. Possession & personal growing are legal state wide. Over the next few years, many of those holdout cities & towns will likely get over themselves, I suspect. That'll be particularly true when the right people figure out how to make money off it.

 

[WaittillIdie]

So ok just recreational is restricted still in some parts Colorado and all medical grows are legal.

But the point I am making is just look how far Colorado has come and how long it took them. The rest of these places are so far behind it will take them triple as long. I will probably be dead by then and never get to enjoy a nice outdoor grow.

 

[Seaf0ur]

Hello Jhhnn? It sounds like you don't do medical so this is all speculation on your part about the 50 plants thing unless someone else can confirm it. Do you know anyone growing 50 plants outside? You act like you can just walk into the doc and convince him you need 50 plants like it's a done deal which I am not so sure. Also sounds like alot of hoops to go through and there is no grantee so I don't know but it would be worth if it was a success. I'd rather do large outdoor because it saves on the power bill and I would like to cure some all year till next summer also.

Yes... as long as the yard is fenced, and every ingress or egress is locked in a fashion to keep it secure such as a key or combination lock. your outdoor is fine provided you have the paperwork. The honesty of the situation is that the doctors have a responsibility to make the best decision based on the information at hand. In many cases its best to say very little... unspecified anxiety is used often... you can disqualify yourself however, but from a doctors perspective, he wants your fee, so in my experience, the doctor wants very little information... I have MRI's and such, but for an extended plant count, bring extra cash cause the doctors have a sliding scale of $'s/plant counts.... x for 100$ x for 200$ etc... maxing out at 99 plants, because FED law kicks your ass @ 100 plants.... but thats being squeezed a bit as monsoon alluded to, so some doctors are becoming more hesitant to max out.... but you literally pay for the extra count and give the reason that you process material for edibles.

 

[budtang]

Jhhnn, you're playing both sides of the fence. On one hand you talk shit about the grey market in California and OTOH you claim that lack of penalties equates to legality.

Any cop could see your outdoor grow, of 6 plants, and tear it down and arrest you because it is,in his eyes, a violation of A64. It may get thrown out in court...

I think it is made clear hoop houses are not legal under A64, and if vinyl plastic siding counts as "enclosed and locked" I will be completely shocked.

EDIT: I guess "enclosed and locked" could mean a 10 foot fence and locked gates, but I somehow feel if you are within a quarter mileof anyone else that ssuddenly the smell alone would be considered to be "conducted publicly." Its completely grey area. To claim it is "legal" to grow outdoors because there are no "penalties" is absurd. A64 clearly states "enclosed and locked" to say that equates to legal outdoor growing is such a stretch. At least in CA there are precedents already set for most of the "grey area". I certainly wouldn't want to be the precedent set, and the one that goes to jail, for growing 6 plants outdoors...

Which, is why the 6 plant system is pointless. The odor can become a problem in a 6 plant system just easily as a 100 plant system if the grow isn't contained and the odor is controlled through air filtration. You throw in the fact that you can pretty much produce a comparable amount of weed from 6 enormous plants to growing 100 smaller plants and it's pretty clear that these regulations were put in place by people who didn't know anything about cannabis horticulture.

I've never understood why none of these regulations on cultivation revolved around limits on square footage as opposed to plant limits. That's how you control the amount of weed cultivated in a residence. Not plant limits. If you slapped a 5 X 5 X 8 foot cultivation space limit on residents then you would actually accomplish something. 6 plant limits are laughable when there are systems of growing that produce 50 lbs/year by following the limits. If the goal with that regulation is to eliminate black market sales and you have growers producing 50 lbs/year under those limits... it's safe to say the regulations are pointless. The Feds are catching on and so is the Colorado state government.

The only market these regulations affect is the breeding/genetics cannabis market. Not wholesale distribution on the black market. Which, is why there is merit to the "Monsanto" angle. As that's the market they're focused on primarily. Whether, they're currently involved in it, or not, there is no denying these regulations benefit their company should they ever officially decide to get involved in the cannabis genetics industry. That's not a theory.

 

[monsoon]

Again...is anyone going house to house and checking if residents >only< have 6 plants and no more? The same thing can easily be said with sq ft limitations you want imposed upon everyone. Who would check to see the garden wasn't 6 x 12 x 8? Seriously?

the State has it covered with State statutes for distribution/etc. for those who play outside the set rules. They know folks are growing in residences and they have no clue how much, and they know folks are gifting and selling as well because they have to see the massive listings of OPEN sales on craigslist for weed/shatter/hash/edibles/etc by unlicensed folks. I bet the Feds see it too...

Oh, my.

It's harvest here. (indoor/6 plant garden...LOL) Back door is open, smell wafting down the block. I sure hope this isn't they day the feds come to bust me or the state comes to count...LOL.

Are you guys ascared yet? I sure am. Gonna be even scarier when the ethanol and the bubblebags come out...know what I mean?

 

[budtang]

Again...is anyone going house to house and checking if residents >only< have 6 plants and no more? The same thing can easily be said with sq ft limitations you want imposed upon everyone. Who would check to see the garden wasn't 6 x 12 x 8? Seriously?

I don't want that. I'm saying that would be more effective at accomplishing the goal of a "6 plant regulation."

the State has it covered with State statutes for distribution/etc. for those who play outside the set rules. They know folks are growing in residences and they have no clue how much, and they know folks are gifting and selling as well because they have to see the massive listings of OPEN sales on craigslist for weed/shatter/hash/edibles/etc by unlicensed folks. I bet the Feds see it too...

Oh, my.

You casually say,"Oh, my."

However, one solution to the "problem" the Feds see could/would be to eliminate "6 plant regulation" altogether. Since, there is no tax system in place. It would be a better idea to preserve that "6 plant system" by installing a registration system for residential growers to sign up and volunteer to pay taxes.

You know? That way the Feds don't even consider abolishing "6 plant limits." I just don't see any other possible outcome other than the Feds targeting home growing if there is no voluntary tax system in place for residential growers.

You keep holding on to this delusion that Colorado voters are God.... immune to federal intervention in your system. You need to wake up and see what's coming. Stop obsessing over what is currently happening. There don't need to be "door to door" inspections on growers bank accounts. The IRS doesn't need to go "door to door" to investigate a potential illegal grower. The future in Colorado is massive IRS audits of illegal growers. They don't need to raid your grow to get you. They just need to raid your bank accounts.

 

[monsoon]

I don't want that. I'm saying that would be more effective at accomplishing the goal of a "6 plant regulation."


However, one solution to the "problem" the Feds see could/would be to eliminate "6 plant regulation" altogether.


They don't need to raid your grow to get you. They just need to raid your bank accounts.

It might e more effective...if they could come for NO REASON. the folks here know that isn't gonna happen...and they will go for the folks who deal..as you are stuck on doing, it seems...rather than target everyone.

They can look at my bank records all they want. Just paychecks from regular jobs and lotsa charges for gas, food, mortgages, and utilities. I mean...who would put cash in the bank from illegal sales if they were making illegal sales? Nobody I've ever met. If it were to come in at all, most folks would be spending it on daily living expenses/etc. right out of the gate. (paying taxes along the way on purchases and pumping $$ into the economy)

Next you'll be saying "they will track all of your cash purchases"

and on and on.

As far as them taking away our grow rights... LOL...gonna be a huge fight in court between the State/People and the fed should anyone try such a stunt.

And seriously...do you think them saying "you can't grow" means folks are not gonna do it ? When has the Fed stopped anything from happening in the world of drugs on such a scale...or at all for that matter?

Has anyone here had trouble finding drugs of all kinds over the last 45 years or so, all of which are federally illegal?

Nobody I know has. Get real.

 

[Seaf0ur]

Budtang, your trolling is not going to get any of us against legalization. Your efforts are laughable. You just pointed to someone else's incorrect speculations as if they were fact.
You keep bouncing back and forth between nonsensical arguments and act as if you want us all to agree that your taxman should be checking our homes for that seventh plant otherwise we are "fucking over the children"...
meanwhile you *say* that you wanna grow all you can out of your house for profit with a "voluntary tax system"...
Please point to any single topic under governmental control and taxation that is voluntary....
Government rule is by force against the people. Nothing is ever voluntary to any government for long.
Mandatory is the word of the governmental realm.

You are clearly either a cop troll, or a 16 year old idiot.

 

[budtang]

It might e more effective...if they could come for NO REASON.

Tax evasion would be the reason.

If it were to come in at all, most folks would be spending it on daily living expenses/etc.

I did that and was contacted by the IRS after only 2 years. You don't need to accumulate cash in bank accounts to get their attention. You clearly don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

right out of the gate. (paying taxes along the way on purchases and pumping $$ into the economy)

Purchasing what? Slurpees at 7-11? If you try to acquire significant assets like property you'er shit out of luck. That's no way to live life.

Next you'll be saying "they will track all of your cash purchases"

No, but they will track electrical usage with smart meters and label residential growers eco-terrorist who contribute to global warming and need to be dealt with, as a result.

As far as them taking away our grow rights... LOL...gonna be a huge fight in court between the State/People and the fed should anyone try such a stunt.

Sure. Because it was such a huge fight when prohibition began.

And seriously...do you think them saying "you can't grow" means folks are not gonna do it ? When has the Fed stopped anything from happening in the world of drugs on such a scale...or at all for that matter?

No, they're going to allow people to do it and then seize all their assets when they evade paying their taxes.

Has anyone here had trouble finding drugs of all kinds over the last 45 years or so, all of which are federally illegal?

No, but plenty of distributors responsible for providing those drugs have issues with the IRS. Supply was never the problem with prohibition. Neither w As many Colorado growers will face in the near future. How long has weed been legal now? 9 months? And, you think it's significant because the IRS hasn't stepped in, yet?

Just wait for the IRS to finish their investigations. It takes more than 9 months. We haven't even gone through a full year for them to audit growers for evading taxes on.

 

[budtang]

Budtang, your trolling is not going to get any of us against legalization. Your efforts are laughable. You just pointed to someone else's incorrect speculations as if they were fact.
You keep bouncing back and forth between nonsensical arguments and act as if you want us all to agree that your taxman should be checking our homes for that seventh plant otherwise we are "fucking over the children"...
meanwhile you *say* that you wanna grow all you can out of your house for profit with a "voluntary tax system"...
Please point to any single topic under governmental control and taxation that is voluntary....

Following a "6 plant limitation" is voluntary. That was a regulation installed by the government. There's one.

 

[Seaf0ur]

You seem to want a babysitter....

I call DINGO

And 6 plants is not voluntary or you'd not be crying about that.

6 plants is a mandatory rule for A64's population enforceable by force.
It does not limit A20, but you dont know what you're talking about, so it is to be expected that you'd be incorrect.

what you want, is easy enforcement because you are a lazy cop troll.... you don't get to look in our homes and we do not want your inspections.

 

[budtang]

you don't get to look in our homes and we do not want your inspections.

There is no need for in home inspections. The weed grown in homes must be inspected at certified facilities before sold to dispensaries.

No in home inspections required to maintain quality control.

 

[monsoon]

Smart meters and eco terrorists?

First...we don't have smart meters here. 2nd..it isn't illegal here to use electricity in any amount for a grow. I can run 20 lights off my 200 amp panel if I choose to do so. I can set em all out in the driveway if I want and call the cops to come over to heat donuts and coffee under em...but that's >>>all<<< they could do with 'em. None of that is illegal here. Sorry....nor do we have tract houses all the same where they can even gauge how the power was used. Could be a hot tub/sauna...could be 6K of HPS. If they smart meter it and you THINK it's to try to see 12/12 cycle so they can bust you....just run a fuckin flip flop and 24 hour draws and ignore that shit, dummy. They can't get a warrant here for power usage unless they see you are STEALING it pre-meter/etc.

Again... we grew here..in the same residence...for 15 years when the Feds could have taken it all...and the kids too... IF they gave a fuck. The only bust here in all the time I've been here (30 years) that had any Fed involvement was a 225 plant count bust in about 95.(pre med/pre any laws here allowing anything)...and the guy got a whopping 3 years of PROBATION for his crime. Try again. Show us WHERE folks are going down...not the "it could happen if mom lets me play in the street" kinda shit.

 

[budtang]

Try again. Show us WHERE folks are going down...not the "it could happen if mom lets me play in the street" kinda shit.

Are you saying moonshiners aren't going to prison?