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IS LOW POTENCY A RECESSIVE TRAIT?

IS LOW POTENCY A RECESSIVE TRAIT?


  • Total voters
    45
Being nonperfect is a beautiful survival strategy imo. There is a hemp side that becomes quite useful and a drug side that lifts the spirits. Cannabis obviously wants another species to find it beautiful (maybe too hippy but whatever)

I think low potency is the main strategy and high potency is its plan B for continual life cycles.
 

3dDream

Matter that Appreciates Matter
Veteran
I think cannabis is the first crop man manipulated to fill needs. Didn't some ancient man turn weed's ancestor into drug and fiber plants or did that just happen?
 

Tonygreen

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Lets get some genetic sequencing done and find out? Not one person on this forum can say so and be sure, I think.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
I don't think it is an even/or situation. I'm sure that somewhere there are/were landraces that most folks would appreciate. of course, lots of folks keep looking forward toward the next/newest etc hoping for the Holy Grail. myself, the best I ever had came from some 70+ year old men that lived out on the Cumberland Plateau here in Tennessee near Crossville. nothing new under the sun...
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Hey Tony, do all the sequencing you want, that won't tell you anything ;) .
Everybody's hunting 'genes'... but it's like with ape an men, most of the genes are highly similar, especially with regard to actually expressed ones and functionally relevant differences.
Hunt instead for 'transcriptome', 'proteome', 'metabolome', and so on, it'll make you happier (besides, for some of these you don't even need to get an expensive DNA sequencer, let alone the understanding necessary to translate the raw data into something actually useful).

De-subbed, this thread isn't worth the bits and bytes it's written with :D .
 
I had read that Cannabis will progress towards lower potency with each generation without selection. . . So that we need breeders to keep the plant potent.

True?
(makes sense, that the plant would revert/digress towards a lower THC content but a more EVEN cannabinoid profile)
The quote I remember reading was that early males tend to be lower potency thus cannabis will progress towards lower potency without selective breeding. It is also thought that later females showing flowers under 12/12 are more likly to be more potent.
(So much for a potent quick strain using rudilas genetics.) However this also might not be 100 percent true.^

An article in HT concerning auto trait and regular combining genetics required extensive selection and back crosses to infuse the auto trait into the seed genetic. (f4 gen and later= above 80%.)

But the answer to the original thread question is "no" potency is not a recessive trait. Even in drug strains of cannabis. Some are higher and some are lower. Requires testing to find the highest thc in a group of plants and I would say high potency is more rare just looking at some of the samples SG1 reported while testing the same strain looking for the most potent females to breed.

High THC plants that also contain higher numbers of terpenes are the most potent.
(CBD is thought to contain/control the effects of thc)
Unless your looking for CBD specific effect for medical reasons.

For soaring effect, high thcv is also a desired terpene to look for from what I've read.
 
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Here are some examples of the same strain popped from seed. This was done by the great SG1 and is no bullshit genetics. I like his style!!!!!!!

Helps prove if anything low potency is the norm and high potency is not. Even in drug type cannabis breed for potency. It cannot be judged solely upon smoking but must be tested.

The GQs are if anything, high in flavor and generally high terpenes.
Testing is ranging from 12.5 - 19.87%.

With the recent GQ run, it was the shorter indica dom plants that scored highest.
Between the top 3 GQs, all are very frosty and tasty.
Will regrow all 3 top GQ's again for final selections.

What I have learned about the terpenes:
Flavors and scents affect the pleasure sensors in the brain.
People get a type of high from, say a well prepared meal, smell and flavor bring
its own type of high and pleasure.

Here we go, no BS reporting coming up.
Shitty to great.

Goblin queen #1
12.32% THC
Goblin queen #4
13.54%
Goblin queen #2
13.81%
Goblin queen #5
16.04%
Goblin queen #3
17.03%
Goblin queen #7
19.48%
Goblin queen #6
19.87%
Goblin Queen #8
18.40%

This was a straggler from the GQ run. (#8)
She got beat out by #'s 6 @ 19.87% and 7 @ 19.48%
Gotta toss this cut also.


DCD #'s
2 - 10.32%
4 - 12.68%
5 - 12.21%
6 - 9.13%
7 - 14.83%
8 - 13.35%
9 - 8.33%
12 - 13.56%

All are gonna get tossed tonight.
Not a keeper in the bunch.


Other tests include:
Critical super silver haze - 14.91%
Gonna break my kids heart about this one.
He thought very highly of this cut.

Blue city diesel
12.44%

My sons best cut (Cherry Bomb)
16.98% (not bad son)
 
Last edited:

StankyBeamer

Professional A$$hole
Let early flowering males pollinate your grow and then grow the seeds and try to tell me low potency is recessive. The progeny revert to low potency fiber producing plants, basically hemp without the cbd. Seen too many old farmers go down this road to think high potency isn't a recessive trait, as opposed to low potency as Sam suggests. Thought the skunkman would know that. It takes generations of selection to get potency, and one fiber focusing male to fuck it all up .
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
That one time each probably every 400 posts I state something that sounds like a personal, subjective phrase, I get a foul comment...
do u go to your subbed threads first or my posts first ? i have a hard time deciding what the difference is between the two of those categories . .
And why do have these people to grouch on the public visitor message page instead of sending personal messages like normal people do?
Blue Berry said:
Sup , i dont care what threads u sub or dont sub just dont talk about it if you dont wanna talk about it . comments like those lead to comments like mine. i dont want to waste brain space thinking about what threads u sub and dont sub or when u unsub from them for personal reasons.
And worst of all, non-trolling folk using fora usually do so because they care what other people think, especially in a thread which has so far been about rather weird opinions instead of facts (apart from Pepe's answer, that is).

Anyway, this got me thinking... hence, here's the sort of reply I usually post without getting pissed at:

The OP's question sounds like a legit one, but the moment you take the person behind into account, you realise that stupid questions really exist.
No offence, Sam, but you of all people should have at least guessed the answer roughly 50 years ago. After all, you're amongst the ones who bred the most hemp and drug type cannabis varieties.
And then again, the proposed answers are, if I may put it bluntly, plain stupid.

The reason why:
The original question is about a 'recessive trait' and hence implies we're talking about genetics and inheritance. The proposed votes though are of philosophical nature. Even then, you as an advocator of the entourage effect, should have taken more than mere THC concentration into consideration.
True, from a pharmacological point of view, it's the amount of THC which basically dictates cannabis potency. In terms of 'perfect' with regard to cannabis as a medicine or a recreational drug, THC is not the only active constituent and therefore potency can not be linked to a value like 'perfect'. Others use more or less potent cannabis even for it's fibres and seeds and to them, this plant may be perfect due it's multi-functionality. And even then, from a shamanistic point of view, high contents of psychedelic substances within a plant were not always the aim, the proposed reply 'perfect a long time ago' is therefore invalid. As is the other proposed reply 'cannabis never was perfect'; for one, who are we to judge what's perfect or not? Our understanding of nature tells us that, given an organism is not in an early stage of an 'evolutionary jump' or 'got stuck', nature is as perfect as it gets (can't decide where to put humanity...).

A cannabis plant with over 20% THC (maybe even less) has no benefit (except of being cultivated indoors as cutting, which may be regarded as some sort of modern co-evolution :D ) in nature because it couldn't survive due the excessive effort. There are only a very few species on earth containing more than 10% of a single substance and not that many more who do contain mixtures of closely related compounds in selected organs (e.g. clove) at up to 20% dry weight. Think of it that way: You have a house, that stands for the plant, and you have bear traps, which symbolise THC. If you fill now your house with 10 weight-% bear traps, your house gets already very cramped, you'll start to run low on money, and doing daily business in your rooms becomes increasingly complicated. At one point, you won't be more or less safe from bears no matter how many new bear traps you get. Now fill your house with 20 or even 30% bear traps and the lives of Tom & Jerry all of a sudden looks very peaceful. Maybe to a bear hunter, your house may seem perfect at that time... but he doesn't have to live in there.

This brings me to the real answer of the original question (only an addition of Pepe's reply and meant for those who didn't read or didn't understand the publication I proposed earlier).
Current scientific data point more toward only one species within the genus of Cannabis. At least, C. sativa and C. indica are so closely related that crossing hemp with cannabis seems a legit practice to find the answer.
We know that there is no difference in the amount of canabinoids expressed due BD or BT genotypes. For the sake of simplicity, the following examples are hence about THC plus CBD and not pure THC.
A: Scientific investigations show that crossing hemp with drug type cannabis leads to approximately median THC/CBD levels in the F1 generation.
B: Subsequent generations show a high segregation from values below that of the less potent parent to such above those of the more potent one.
C: A clear pattern of inheritance was not observed.
D: Crossing female hemp to male drug type cannabis results in lower levels than the cross the other way round.
E: Cannabinoid concentration is not dictated by the genes encoding proteins involved in cannabinoid biosynthesis (neither different alleles nor the amount of gene copies).

That means several things (and bear in mind that THC concentration is at least highly proportional to potency in most cases):
A: THC concentration (and therefore potency) is inherited
B: Inheritance is of a multi-genetic nature
C: The sum of all parts looks like intermediate inheritance
D: Yet unknown non-nuclear factors contribute (do not follow Mendel's rules)
E: Concentration is regulated by the amount of expressed proteins and not the involved genes involved in biosynthesis themselves

I could go on wasting my time by picking other posts apart too to show that my above statement, that the thread until very recently has no value, is in fact true and based on published data and logical deduction. Maybe it could have a certain philosophical one were it re-located to the Toker's Den...

Should someone feel like answering to this post and wants me to see or even reply to it, please send me a personal message because I did unsubscribe this thread for a now very obvious reason ;) .
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Cannabis used to be perfect until incredible breeders like you fucked it up, Sam. If you don't believe me, ask God(Bubbl3r).

Gee thanks,
So just to be clear it was perfect until the hand of man got it? Or was it my hand?
If it is fucked up then any god would know that it was going to happen and yet let it anyway, so I guess it being fucked up was perfect?
I think we should keep God out it.
-SamS
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
The thread was a joke. Of course it was a mix of opinion and crap.
If not funny, then spend an hour with a serious response and you will see everyone laughing.
No problem, I had forgot I posted it. It was more then 6 years old.....
With only 6 out of 44 not getting it.
-SamS



That one time each probably every 400 posts I state something that sounds like a personal, subjective phrase, I get a foul comment...

And why do have these people to grouch on the public visitor message page instead of sending personal messages like normal people do?

And worst of all, non-trolling folk using fora usually do so because they care what other people think, especially in a thread which has so far been about rather weird opinions instead of facts (apart from Pepe's answer, that is).

Anyway, this got me thinking... hence, here's the sort of reply I usually post without getting pissed at:

The OP's question sounds like a legit one, but the moment you take the person behind into account, you realise that stupid questions really exist.
No offence, Sam, but you of all people should have at least guessed the answer roughly 50 years ago. After all, you're amongst the ones who bred the most hemp and drug type cannabis varieties.
And then again, the proposed answers are, if I may put it bluntly, plain stupid.

The reason why:
The original question is about a 'recessive trait' and hence implies we're talking about genetics and inheritance. The proposed votes though are of philosophical nature. Even then, you as an advocator of the entourage effect, should have taken more than mere THC concentration into consideration.
True, from a pharmacological point of view, it's the amount of THC which basically dictates cannabis potency. In terms of 'perfect' with regard to cannabis as a medicine or a recreational drug, THC is not the only active constituent and therefore potency can not be linked to a value like 'perfect'. Others use more or less potent cannabis even for it's fibres and seeds and to them, this plant may be perfect due it's multi-functionality. And even then, from a shamanistic point of view, high contents of psychedelic substances within a plant were not always the aim, the proposed reply 'perfect a long time ago' is therefore invalid. As is the other proposed reply 'cannabis never was perfect'; for one, who are we to judge what's perfect or not? Our understanding of nature tells us that, given an organism is not in an early stage of an 'evolutionary jump' or 'got stuck', nature is as perfect as it gets (can't decide where to put humanity...).

A cannabis plant with over 20% THC (maybe even less) has no benefit (except of being cultivated indoors as cutting, which may be regarded as some sort of modern co-evolution :D ) in nature because it couldn't survive due the excessive effort. There are only a very few species on earth containing more than 10% of a single substance and not that many more who do contain mixtures of closely related compounds in selected organs (e.g. clove) at up to 20% dry weight. Think of it that way: You have a house, that stands for the plant, and you have bear traps, which symbolise THC. If you fill now your house with 10 weight-% bear traps, your house gets already very cramped, you'll start to run low on money, and doing daily business in your rooms becomes increasingly complicated. At one point, you won't be more or less safe from bears no matter how many new bear traps you get. Now fill your house with 20 or even 30% bear traps and the lives of Tom & Jerry all of a sudden looks very peaceful. Maybe to a bear hunter, your house may seem perfect at that time... but he doesn't have to live in there.

This brings me to the real answer of the original question (only an addition of Pepe's reply and meant for those who didn't read or didn't understand the publication I proposed earlier).
Current scientific data point more toward only one species within the genus of Cannabis. At least, C. sativa and C. indica are so closely related that crossing hemp with cannabis seems a legit practice to find the answer.
We know that there is no difference in the amount of canabinoids expressed due BD or BT genotypes. For the sake of simplicity, the following examples are hence about THC plus CBD and not pure THC.
A: Scientific investigations show that crossing hemp with drug type cannabis leads to approximately median THC/CBD levels in the F1 generation.
B: Subsequent generations show a high segregation from values below that of the less potent parent to such above those of the more potent one.
C: A clear pattern of inheritance was not observed.
D: Crossing female hemp to male drug type cannabis results in lower levels than the cross the other way round.
E: Cannabinoid concentration is not dictated by the genes encoding proteins involved in cannabinoid biosynthesis (neither different alleles nor the amount of gene copies).

That means several things (and bear in mind that THC concentration is at least highly proportional to potency in most cases):
A: THC concentration (and therefore potency) is inherited
B: Inheritance is of a multi-genetic nature
C: The sum of all parts looks like intermediate inheritance
D: Yet unknown non-nuclear factors contribute (do not follow Mendel's rules)
E: Concentration is regulated by the amount of expressed proteins and not the involved genes involved in biosynthesis themselves

I could go on wasting my time by picking other posts apart too to show that my above statement, that the thread until very recently has no value, is in fact true and based on published data and logical deduction. Maybe it could have a certain philosophical one were it re-located to the Toker's Den...

Should someone feel like answering to this post and wants me to see or even reply to it, please send me a personal message because I did unsubscribe this thread for a now very obvious reason ;) .
 

Dropped Cat

Six Gummi Bears and Some Scotch
Veteran
Any thread with a reply from suzycremecheese is just dreamy.

I forgot to mention how much I like her posts.

Sam, you slay me, lol.
 

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