No as BM has been show to also cause Dud's, and a few other pathogens that cause similar problems.
Life is seldom as simple as only one problem.....
-SamS
Life is seldom as simple as only one problem.....
-SamS
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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
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I agree. But... and I know this is maybe the hundredth time I've said it... but I still think there are more things than pests and pathogens responsible for some of the growth traits in these plants.
It seems surreal to me people's refusal to take on board the whole aspect of cultivation practices and procedures in relation to how they can be immensely helpful even in mitigating issues caused by pests etc.
It seems accepted that the growers who are having these issues will have done every single thing they can do to mitigate the problem or minimise the effects of it, even though we know not a single thing about whether they have or not.
You know that in outdoor growing especially you deal with pests, and that your best defence against them is a strong plant. Same thing goes for indoor growing.
The question for me still remains... is a pathogen or pest really what made those plants grow like that from the point they were cloned?
Even if we reason the hypothetical and accept that it is the case, it'd still throw up so many more questions regarding why no other measures were taken to correct the issues in growth before the plants were flowered.
Science is fascinating, but the body of our work is the growing of the plants, and when we think we're above making mistakes and we disregard that entire and immense portion of what ultimately makes us successful or not, we're overlooking a massive pool of information which I'm sure nobody in this thread can say they have complete mastery of.
There are gardeners more experienced and knowledgeable than any of us in this thread who still find new ways and tricks, pick up new tips from fellow gardeners, to mitigate issues like stunting, pest damage and weak growth.
But we're saying... no... there's definitely nothing... not a single thing I could have done differently, better... there's nothing that could be done with this plant which could have enabled it to perform better. Not one tip trick or tactic that any gardener in this world knows.
That's a pretty huge statement to make. And it seems to have been accepted.
It seems surreal to me people's refusal to take on board the whole aspect of cultivation practices and procedures in relation to how they can be immensely helpful even in mitigating issues caused by pests etc.
It seems accepted that the growers who are having these issues will have done every single thing they can do to mitigate the problem or minimise the effects of it, even though we know not a single thing about whether they have or not.
You know that in outdoor growing especially you deal with pests, and that your best defence against them is a strong plant. Same thing goes for indoor growing.
The question for me still remains... is a pathogen or pest really what made those plants grow like that from the point they were cloned?
Even if we reason the hypothetical and accept that it is the case, it'd still throw up so many more questions regarding why no other measures were taken to correct the issues in growth before the plants were flowered.
Science is fascinating, but the body of our work is the growing of the plants, and when we think we're above making mistakes and we disregard that entire and immense portion of what ultimately makes us successful or not, we're overlooking a massive pool of information which I'm sure nobody in this thread can say they have complete mastery of.
There are gardeners more experienced and knowledgeable than any of us in this thread who still find new ways and tricks, pick up new tips from fellow gardeners, to mitigate issues like stunting, pest damage and weak growth.
But we're saying... no... there's definitely nothing... not a single thing I could have done differently, better... there's nothing that could be done with this plant which could have enabled it to perform better. Not one tip trick or tactic that any gardener in this world knows.
That's a pretty huge statement to make. And it seems to have been accepted.
Nematodes 100%
Take it from those that have the problem and have had it for quite sometime
The link to that awesome book I posted earlier will help anyone understand this problem much more clear....
For the record...
Broad Mites do not cause this type of issue... you can have BM in flower and kill em off ... still harvest dank....not the case with stem nematodes...
Again.... DUDs are not from any MITE.... I would scope my plants everyday for at least an hour for the last few years.... I had BM's and I can assure you they are a joke and as easy to kill as Fungus Gnats/Spider Mites... When your enemy isn't visible until you gut your plants open...that's next level battle..
Look how many people were so off on the problem... crazy shit
Take it from those that have the problem and have had it for quite sometime
The link to that awesome book I posted earlier will help anyone understand this problem much more clear....
For the record...
Broad Mites do not cause this type of issue... you can have BM in flower and kill em off ... still harvest dank....not the case with stem nematodes...
Again.... DUDs are not from any MITE.... I would scope my plants everyday for at least an hour for the last few years.... I had BM's and I can assure you they are a joke and as easy to kill as Fungus Gnats/Spider Mites... When your enemy isn't visible until you gut your plants open...that's next level battle..
Look how many people were so off on the problem... crazy shit
Not saying you can't kill BM, I am saying people got Dud's from having BM's or from their "TOXIN" they leave when feeding.
What happened to phytoplasmas you did quite a few posts on them....
You seem blinded by the light, first one and then another, I say there are more then one pathogens at the root of this, we will see.
-SamS
Broad Mites do not cause DUDs...by your own admission...you've never had BM or Stem Nematodes...
I was wrong about Phytoplasma... I made that quite clear..... but guess what I wasn't wrong about
I was wrong about Phytoplasma... I made that quite clear..... but guess what I wasn't wrong about
reading other peoples problems and thinking you can diagnosis them without exp it yourself or being on the frontline in the trenches....doesn't make sense on any level...
as is the case with Broad Mites and Stem Nematodes....
The thread should move in the direction of killing stem nematodes...and nothing else
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Kill-Stem-Nematode-and-Root-knot_1100726822.html
as is the case with Broad Mites and Stem Nematodes....
The thread should move in the direction of killing stem nematodes...and nothing else
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Kill-Stem-Nematode-and-Root-knot_1100726822.html
with all due respect papaduc, please give it a rest. We all know that it's all our fault that a small percentage of our plants get these symptoms from time to time...you've already told us this many times...
you seem like a smart enough guy to realize your better off saving your breath than commenting on something that you have never witnessed/experienced firsthand...your post's really aren't helping us get any closer to a solution, re-read them...what applicable content have you provided to this thread? every post you've made is just a spin on "this is all caused by grower error" you have as much evidence of that as you do experience on this issue.
you seem like a smart enough guy to realize your better off saving your breath than commenting on something that you have never witnessed/experienced firsthand...your post's really aren't helping us get any closer to a solution, re-read them...what applicable content have you provided to this thread? every post you've made is just a spin on "this is all caused by grower error" you have as much evidence of that as you do experience on this issue.
Papa we have made a discovery here. Why can you not get off the grower error thing? You can say that about just about anything. Its becoming a lame argument. Look at the incredible growers that have had this issue. Your redundancy is becoming a bit pathetic, Papathetic even! Chiming in now and reminding us we arent masters and some plants are stronger than others and whatnot, at this point, is, well, just silly. Again, ive had one single dud in a tray fed off of the same res, same environment. I did the exact same thing for the other 31 plants and they were all perfect. Just one dudded, in the middle of a light with great exposure and training like all the others. I did nothing different but one plant suffered. I just cant tell myself oh that was my error when there was literally nothing i could have done to cause it.
I haven't been following along to be honest... but does the above fit the description of the damage? If so, it is certainly stem nematodes.... however the above damage does not seem to be the damage shown in these "duds".... I've yet to see black stems with white leaves devoid of chlorophyll....
not tryin to be the turd in the punchbowl... but only a small portion of the damage seems to fit the scapegoat pest....
hey mikenite69 were they these? some soil mite i found i a potato slice test looking for root aphids a long time ago. i freaked thought they may have been bulb mites i still dont know for sure.
i wouldnt describe springtails as bulbous but here is a link to a pic of springtails
someone asked if these were aphids in the ra thread. im pretty sure these are springtails.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38481&pictureid=1279824
thats what i thought but then someone said that bulb mites looked different, im not sure but they lookk like bulb mites to me too from pics. i should do another potato slice test.
sorry not trying to derail but i just wanted to add pics to quickly make sure everyone is referring to the same bugs in their descriptions.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/prm7899
White Flagging-
White flag symptoms of single alfalfa shoots infected by the alfalfa stem nematode.
Go back and look at the pics in this thread...the ones in flowering
Scrappy-doo
Well-known member
Yup springtails.
Broad Mites do not cause DUDs...by your own admission...you've never had BM or Stem Nematodes...
I was wrong about Phytoplasma... I made that quite clear..... but guess what I wasn't wrong about
Reread my post 1111, I have seen stem and root nematodes in the EU and elsewhere, I have not had them I knew of, I think I would know, I examine any sickly plant intensely and have access to the local Netherlands Agricultural services to ID pests and diseases/pathogens for many many years here. But if I did not know, I did not know.
-SamS
Nothing wrong with me trying to help as I do have more experience with Cannabis Pests and Diseases then anyone in this forum.
I am not trying to say I know more then anyone about everything to do with Pests and Diseases, as I meet people all the time that can maybe add something, but that said, I have been at this a very very long time with many different problems found and solved, and have used for decades, numbers of bio-controls you can only imagine. I know how to ID pests & pathogens pretty well, as well as kill many of them.
And for you to now presume that all Dud's are now 100% from stem nematodes, I think just maybe you are a bit early, and as I have said from the beginning I will be surprised if it is just a single problem, time will tell.
Good luck killing the Stem Nematodes, be careful what you use to kill them as many chemical controls are not allowed with any/all food crops, there is a reason.
-SamS
I did go back, but didn't see many pics... however, assuming symptoms have been narrowed down to stem nematodes,
here are some sources:
Utah Plant Pest Diagnostic Laboratory - Alfalfa Stem Nematode Factsheet (pdf)
Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Service - Alfalfa Stem Nematode Factsheet (pdf)
University of Illinois College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences - Alfalfa Stem Nematode
and an interesting sidenote...
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