First grow, yellow veins

[philbu]

Scrog, soil pots, Green Crack, sativa dominant, 50 day flower time: Day 21 flower.

This all may be fine, but I’m a nervous first-timer. It probably started last week, but really didn’t notice till now. A few of the leaves are starting to turn yellow. And not the usual yellow leaves/green veins, nitrogen deficiency type that I read about. These are the other way around, yellow veins/green intraveinal areas slowly turn yellow. The ones affected seem to be larger, lower leaves. New leaves around the buds look fine so far. I’m not having a lot of luck searching the net on the yellow vein peculiarity.

They were fed Liquinox all thru veg and did great (though I’ll go with organic fert next time). Switched to Dr Earth Bud&Bloom 4-10-7 on alternate watering and molasses on all watering after going 12/12, and always monitor PH.

So, did I panic when I flushed them last night out of fear there was some lockout from salts? Should I just go back to dr earth/etc next watering? *If* it’s a nitrogen issue, what to do or too late? Or is this normal?

Thnx!

phil

 

[philbu]

stumped? : )

 

[philbu]

thanks anyway...

 

[AssSlinger]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=55165&pictureid=1287374

Let me give you a full readout of this leaf.

First and most important is that you have mites. You should definitely look that issue up.
The overall pale color is nitrogen deficiency.
The yellow veins is iron deficiency.
The burning on the sides is a PK deficiency.

Look under the leaves to see if there are more mites. If so look up a way to get rid of them.
The N and iron def. is OK at this stage for lower leaves as they don't get light and the plant breaks down the chlorophyll for its nitrogen and iron and move them to the upper parts where chlorophyll is actually needed.
The PK def. means you should add more flowering nutrients to your watering.

 

[Dave Coulier]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=55165&pictureid=1287374

Let me give you a full readout of this leaf.

First and most important is that you have mites. You should definitely look that issue up.
The overall pale color is nitrogen deficiency.
The yellow veins is iron deficiency.
The burning on the sides is a PK deficiency.

Look under the leaves to see if there are more mites. If so look up a way to get rid of them.
The N and iron def. is OK at this stage for lower leaves as they don't get light and the plant breaks down the chlorophyll for its nitrogen and iron and move them to the upper parts where chlorophyll is actually needed.
The PK def. means you should add more flowering nutrients to your watering.

For crying out loud, why are you telling this guy he has spider mites? He doesn't. Ive encountered the borg before, and I became very intimate with them. Its not an encounter Ill ever want to relive, but this guy doesn't have that problem.

Spider mites attack new growth not old growth. They dont just attack it, they wreck it to the point new growth can die, and even the death of plants if they are left unchecked. Ive had that occur before. Its ugly.

OP, check out the links in my signature. You'll learn alot.

 

[philbu]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=55165&pictureid=1287374

Let me give you a full readout of this leaf.

First and most important is that you have mites. You should definitely look that issue up.
The overall pale color is nitrogen deficiency.
The yellow veins is iron deficiency.
The burning on the sides is a PK deficiency.

The N and iron def. is OK at this stage for lower leaves as they don't get light and the plant breaks down the chlorophyll for its nitrogen and iron and move them to the upper parts where chlorophyll is actually needed.
The PK def. means you should add more flowering nutrients to your watering.

Thanks for the reply. There are no mites. I know their look and behavior because I had a mild case of them about a month ago. Proper application of Azamax killed them off and I inspect regularly.

Yes, N is the obvious suspect except that the leaves exhibit the opposite of what usually occurs - in my case, yellow veins first, then slow turn of interveinal from green to yellow. Maybe this pattern is strain-specific. That's what I was mostly curious about.

Like I said, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]switched to Dr Earth Bud&Bloom 4-10-7 on alternate watering and molasses on all watering after going 12/12[/FONT]. Water is always in 6.5 range

I used some Revive as a foliar spray after flushing. It has a dose of N, Ca, Mag, and Iron. The issue seemed to settle down a bit and I do expect some more yellowing/dropping now starting 4th week, yes?

I'm now more concerned about calyx hairs turning brown, room got to 90 one day (beyond my control). perhaps they got stressed, I don't know. There are no males, nor hermes in this group.

Thanks again : )

 

[philbu]

Ive encountered the borg before, and I became very intimate with them. Its not an encounter Ill ever want to relive, but this guy doesn't have that problem.

Spider mites attack new growth not old growth. They dont just attack it, they wreck it to the point new growth can die, and even the death of plants if they are left unchecked. Ive had that occur before. Its ugly.

OP, check out the links in my signature. You'll learn alot.

Thanks, Dave, I agree, mites are serious, very important to deal with them immediately.

I've looked at literally hundreds of images and graphics of plant afflictions/deficiencies, have about 10 references bookmarked. I haven't had a chance to look at your links yet (will tonight) but I give top priority to any information associated with universities or other research institutions, so def appreciate.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Thanks, Dave, I agree, mites are serious, very important to deal with them immediately.

I've looked at literally hundreds of images and graphics of plant afflictions/deficiencies, have about 10 references bookmarked. I haven't had a chance to look at your links yet (will tonight) but I give top priority to any information associated with universities or other research institutions, so def appreciate.

Philbu, I did the same thing as you. I looked at hundreds of photos, and had boatloads of bookmarks saved, but Ive found those 3 videos, and Understanding Ph Management For Container Grown Plants by Bill Argo, and Paul Fisher will cover virtually everything you'll need to know to grow healthy plants. That book is a gold mine of information. Read, it and re-read it and thank me later.

Now, that you've mentioned you stopped feeding a higher N at onset of flowering, and that youre experiencing leaf abscission. I think we've narrowed down your problem greatly.

N defiencies are the most common problem any of us will face, but thankfully its easily fixed. Feed at a higher N. I can tell you, that you're not providing enough. I still keep feeding a 'high' N diet for the first month of flower. The sooner you start seeing lower leaves turning yellow, the worse off your yield will be, so make sure to feed them enough N to keep them healthy and green longer into flower.

Never expect it to be a normal process that occurs around the first month mark.

If you know how to calculate ppm of N, id recommend feeding at 100ppm N each watering for a bit. You should see the stop of leaf abscission and a halt to the yellowing your experiencing.

Also, drop the p.h. to low to mid 5's. Micronutrients are more available to plants at lower pH. 6.5 is too high.

 

[vapor]

whats your ph?
what ppm are you feeding?

 

[philbu]

have kept the ph in the 6.5 range religiously.
to be honest, this is first grow and never got to learning enough about ppm, yet. i did get a meter, but... : (

 

[philbu]

Now, that you've mentioned you stopped feeding a higher N at onset of flowering, and that youre experiencing leaf abscission. I think we've narrowed down your problem greatly.

N defiencies are the most common problem any of us will face, but thankfully its easily fixed. Feed at a higher N. I can tell you, that you're not providing enough. I still keep feeding a 'high' N diet for the first month of flower. The sooner you start seeing lower leaves turning yellow, the worse off your yield will be, so make sure to feed them enough N to keep them healthy and green longer into flower.

Never expect it to be a normal process that occurs around the first month mark.

If you know how to calculate ppm of N, id recommend feeding at 100ppm N each watering for a bit. You should see the stop of leaf abscission and a halt to the yellowing your experiencing.

Also, drop the p.h. to low to mid 5's. Micronutrients are more available to plants at lower pH. 6.5 is too high.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Right, I tried the Revive as a foliar spray a few days ago and it seemed to alleviate the issue. It has a dose of N, Ca, Mag, and Iron and is intended for "yellow leaf syndrome". I'm going to spray them again tonight, one week after first spray, per instructions. This may be the last time I spray as week 5 is about to begin. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Will be going back to bloom nutes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Green Crack is supposed to be fast, 49-56 days. I think you're right, I went to bloom nutes too quickly and neglected the N. It makes sense that there should be some overlap of nutrients in early flower phase.

About the ph, I'm growing in soil, so I should be in 6.5 range, yes? 5.5 for hydro?

Thanks!
[/FONT]

 

[Dave Coulier]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Right, I tried the Revive as a foliar spray a few days ago and it seemed to alleviate the issue. It has a dose of N, Ca, Mag, and Iron and is intended for "yellow leaf syndrome". I'm going to spray them again tonight, one week after first spray, per instructions. This may be the last time I spray as week 5 is about to begin. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Will be going back to bloom nutes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Green Crack is supposed to be fast, 49-56 days. I think you're right, I went to bloom nutes too quickly and neglected the N. It makes sense that there should be some overlap of nutrients in early flower phase.

About the ph, I'm growing in soil, so I should be in 6.5 range, yes? 5.5 for hydro?

Thanks!
[/FONT]

Im glad the foliar spray helped alleviate the issues at hand. It'll help, but its no substitute for feeding via watering the roots. Id keep a batch of 'veg' fertilizer solution on hand in case the yellowing returns too quickly after you stop the foliar feeding.

I wouldn't go by the breeders flower range. Seed plants typically are slower than clones, and even then I still dont trust breeder estimates in most cases .

Just go by when your plants buds appear ready, not by what you read on an advert, forum, etc.

As for the soil ph, you're really growing in a soil-less media, and pH requirements really aren't that far off from Hydro. Im shooting for a pH of 5.3-5.8 in my soil-less media. If you go over 6, try to keep it close to low 6's to help reduce any risk of micronutrient defiency from high pH.

 

[philbu]

I wouldn't go by the breeders flower range. Seed plants typically are slower than clones, and even then I still dont trust breeder estimates in most cases .

As for the soil ph, you're really growing in a soil-less media, and pH requirements really aren't that far off from Hydro. Im shooting for a pH of 5.3-5.8 in my soil-less media. If you go over 6, try to keep it close to low 6's to help reduce any risk of micronutrient defiency from high pH.

Still a bit confused by what soil-less media actually means. I'm growing in soil.

Yeah, these were clones, not from seed.

Right, I have some previous experience with finish, how trichs develop, change color, what percentage of milky/amber to harvest at, etc.

Thnxs, Dave

phil

 

[Dave Coulier]

Soil-less media would include perlite, spaghnum peat moss, compost, ewc. I imagine your mix may have some of those components included.

 

[philbu]

I see. It's mostly a pro-mix, some compost and some perlite.

 

[AssSlinger]

For crying out loud, why are you telling this guy he has spider mites? He doesn't. Ive encountered the borg before, and I became very intimate with them. Its not an encounter Ill ever want to relive, but this guy doesn't have that problem.

Spider mites attack new growth not old growth. They dont just attack it, they wreck it to the point new growth can die, and even the death of plants if they are left unchecked. Ive had that occur before. Its ugly.

OP, check out the links in my signature. You'll learn alot.

Not spider mites, I never said he had spider mites.
He had what seems like mite bites on the leave.

Thanks for the reply. There are no mites. I know their look and behavior because I had a mild case of them about a month ago. Proper application of Azamax killed them off and I inspect regularly.

Yes, N is the obvious suspect except that the leaves exhibit the opposite of what usually occurs - in my case, yellow veins first, then slow turn of interveinal from green to yellow. Maybe this pattern is strain-specific. That's what I was mostly curious about.

Like I said, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]switched to Dr Earth Bud&Bloom 4-10-7 on alternate watering and molasses on all watering after going 12/12[/FONT]. Water is always in 6.5 range

I used some Revive as a foliar spray after flushing. It has a dose of N, Ca, Mag, and Iron. The issue seemed to settle down a bit and I do expect some more yellowing/dropping now starting 4th week, yes?

I'm now more concerned about calyx hairs turning brown, room got to 90 one day (beyond my control). perhaps they got stressed, I don't know. There are no males, nor hermes in this group.

Thanks again : )

The yellow veins looks like iron def. but the overall paleness is most likely N def.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Not spider mites, I never said he had spider mites.
He had what seems like mite bites on the leave.

The yellow veins looks like iron def. but the overall paleness is most likely N def.

The white dots on the top of one of the leaves in his pics did catch my eye as well, but seeing the rest of his garden flowering so well, I dont think he has them anymore. More likely, those white dots are from when he was battling the mites previously.

Im glad to see them flowering so well, when they could have easily ruined his entire garden. Theres hope yet for those of you afflicted by this plague!

Regarding Fe def, Iron is a micronutrient, so its going to affect the newest growth. It can't be translocated out of the older leaves to new growth. I do think you're onto something regarding PK though. Necrosis at tips, and edges points in the direction of K def, but P def can be chlorosis with necrotic tissue as well.

Id suggest op check out his rootzone and see how healthy it is. Unhealthy roots can easily lead to nutrient defiencies.

 

[philbu]

Thanks, guys for your responses/suggestions. I still spot an occasional mite, you just have to stay on top of it. I've no fear that they will run rampant or have any bearing on the final outcome. The Revive stopped the yellowing, probably it was an N deficiency. In a 6'x4' area, I may have 4 or 5 leaves at a time that exhibit some chlorosis/necrosis. I'm not worried about that either. They're on the FoxFarm feeding schedule at Day 40 flowering. GC is reportedly a fast bloomer, ready in the 49-56 day window, but I'm thinking it's going to be way at the back-end of that. I've seen a youtube vid of a great looking crop of GC that went all the way to day 65, so....

 

[Dave Coulier]

Thanks, guys for your responses/suggestions. I still spot an occasional mite, you just have to stay on top of it. I've no fear that they will run rampant or have any bearing on the final outcome. The Revive stopped the yellowing, probably it was an N deficiency. In a 6'x4' area, I may have 4 or 5 leaves at a time that exhibit some chlorosis/necrosis. I'm not worried about that either. They're on the FoxFarm feeding schedule at Day 40 flowering. GC is reportedly a fast bloomer, ready in the 49-56 day window, but I'm thinking it's going to be way at the back-end of that. I've seen a youtube vid of a great looking crop of GC that went all the way to day 65, so....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55534&pictureid=1296190View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55534&pictureid=1296191View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55534&pictureid=1296192View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55534&pictureid=1296193View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55534&pictureid=1296194View Image

Your garden looks great amigo. Thats a nice scrog job you've done there. You'll soon be reaping the rewards of your hard work. Im with you on the later harvest day. Those ladies need 2 weeks minimum. 3-3.5 may be required.

I like my ladies to be curvy. Give them the time to swell and stack those calyxes and you'll be nicely rewarded.