What's new

ROLS 4x4 Smart Pot Keep It Simpler Stoner water only method

D

DoubleDDsNuggs

Mixed soil today to cook for 2 weeks: :clock watch:
2 bales of 3 cuft compressed peat moss (equilivant to 6 cuft expanded each bale)
2 bags of Happy Frog soil
enough perlite to your liking

8 cups of fish bone meal 3-16-0
8 cups of Azomite
4 cups of Peruvian seabird guano 12-10-2
6 cups kelp meal 1-0-2
1/2 cu ft EWC
Mycos per instructions on for application
4 cups Bokashi compost starter
live freaking worms!! (add after you cook the soil) <--I probably should mention this since we're all learning. don't wanna cook your worms!

One cup per 2 cuft
6-5-3 parts of:
6- CaCO3 calcium carbonate lime (not dolomite or garden lime)
5- Soft Rock Phosphate powder
3- gypsum

Seeds to be grown first are Pineapple Chunk which germinated two days ago and were put into Root Riots and then put back in their container with a thin cotton towel over till I see some sprouts. I have some soil leftover from my previous bed that is very similar but it's not a water only soil. I will plant each of these in smart pots with the soil and amend a top mulch of alfalfa, ewc, and in the end some guano while the soil cooks and the plants grow a nice root ball.

:plant grow: Bokashi compost tea brewing http://youtu.be/ZsJMoOxJ81g

If plants need some extra nutrients, I will be using a bokashi compost tea using composted extract that is similar to worm bin tea. This compost tea will be made of only green manure, egg shells, alfalfa, veggie and fruit scraps, bones, and coffee grounds. The tea is not aerated in a compost tea brewer and is just an extract diluted in water and molasses. Composted materials will be applied as a top dressing under the mulch as the grow goes on every month or so as desired by the plants. Bokashi compost is also worm food for the worms in our bed.

I will also be growing yarrow in the same bed as the plants to increase essential oils and nutrients due to yarrow processing atmospheric nitrogen for the plant to use along with P,K, Cu.

Lighting and grow room
I have a 1000w MH for the veg period which is ran on a gas lantern routine but switches to regular 12/12 with 1000w HPS and ???w MH for bloom (I will be picking this up later. my 400w ballast broke). I was going to put this in my tent but the girls already in there are just growing like crazy so I'm putting some bigger plants in there. These girls will have to go in another room that is 6x7 with 10 ft high ceilings. Maybe these will become pineapple trees?!

The idea for this bed is to water only as much as possible to make it easy and user friendly where anyone can get great buds. :greenstars:
Importance will be put on keeping the grow environment stable as this is what I consider most important next to nutrients. I am using fan controls to eliminate hot spikes for even temps and running lights at night to take advantage of the cool night air. When winter comes, I may have to add a heater but who knows, my lights are very warm. My goal is to keep it 70F at night with 80-85F days with 80 being desirable. RH will be at 50-60% during veg and 40-50% during bloom with the RH lowering as the bloom period ends.

I will be using a refractometer and plant sap ph tests to determine plant health with an aim of 12 brix or higher due to the new soil. Brix should increase with each harvest. I will also be testing soil pH and ERGS periodically as pH is not as important and taking both tests can be done at the same time.

If you're not interested in just a water only method and would like to add aerated compost teas, then please see my other grow diary in my signature at the bottom. Using that soil recipe, you can add teas to your liking or do what I did. I switched it up a bit because this was my first grow using organics. I am now 3 weeks into it as well and my recipe I showed above, is one that I made up partially. I used bits and pieces of different threads to make it up. The seabird guano will hold the phosphate more readily than it will the nitrogen. The pelletized seabird phosphate is said to be more available than the bat guano according to the website but either way, 45% of the listed Phosphorus is actually available to the plants because it gets bound to another molecule like calcium (rock phosphate for example) which then makes the phosphate unavailable. Using Soft Rock Phosphate is better than hard rock phosphate.
 
Last edited:
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

picture.php

picture.php

picture.php
 

Thcvhunter

Well-known member
Veteran
Great info.

I was wondering if you keep your SRPhosphate seperate from your Calcium sources (calcite and gypsum) to avoid chemical binding?
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

yep! I've read of people doing it and saving leftovers but I just thought it would be wise. I use a 1/2 cup measure and works out about perfect for this recipe.
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

since there will be live worms in the bed, we have to give them some food. So now your entire bed becomes a vermicomposting machine! What you do is take your food scraps, with the bokashi sprinkles and layer it like lasagna. Put down some bokashi, then some food scraps, then some bokashi and so on. Bokashi is anaerobic bacteria and they need to have an air tight container to compost for 2-4 weeks. Then you can take it and put it into plastic containers. The plastic containers will have holes melted into the sides and bottom for the worms to get into the compost. I used a wood burning tool. Then you plant it in your bed.
picture.php
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs


NPK Nutrient values for some common worm foods I found. Plus there's some info on red wriggler composting worms at the end. Be sure to add organic food products so there's no pesticides.

High N:
Blood Meal (NPK 13-1-0)
Coffee grounds (NPK 1,99-0,36-0,67)
Felt (NPK 14-0-0)
Hair (NPK 14-0-0)
Tea grounds (NPK 4,15-0,62-0,4)
Worm Meal (dried & ground worms) NPK 10-1-1
Greens, leaves & meals, alfalfa, stinging nettle

High P:
Bone Meal generic NPK 4-21-0,2
* steamed NPK 13-15-13
* burned NPK 0-34,7-0
Shrimp Waste NPK 2,87-9,95-0
Tea Leaves ash NPK 0-1,66-0,4
Wheat bran NPK 2,65-2,9-1,6
Oats, Chicken Manure

High K:
Banana skin NPK 0-3,08-11,74
Molasses NPK 0,7-0-5,32
Potato skin NPK 0-5,15-27,5
Wood Ash NPK 0-0,15-7,0
Wood ash (broadleaf) K 10%
Wood ash (coniferous) K 6%
Alfalfa, ashes, potato wastes, peel & skin (-ashes, too)

High Calcium:
Poultry manure (0,5-0,7% dry), egg shells, bone meal
Note that its usually thought that worm castings is high in calcium (perhaps with the presumption that lime or eggshells are added during the process).

High Iron:
Stinging nettle (Also high N)

High Magnesium:
Dolomite lime, poultry manure, epsom salts


Vermicomposting by Numbers

Facts from a technical compost quide, section 'Vermi-stabilization' (of composted communal waste). (Komposti, WSOY 1984).

They are talking about the red wriggler Eisenia Fetida:

• Optimum pH range 5-8. The worms die under pH 4,5 and over pH 9.
• Optimum Humidity 80-85%.
• Dissolved salt leves should not exceed 0,5 % (5000 ppm?). Ammoniumacetate is toxic to the worms when concentrations exceed 0,1% (1000ppm).
• Greatest growth rate in temperatures between 20 and 25 C degrees, greatest feeding rate in 15-20 C degrees. Temperatures above 37 C degrees cause worm deaths. Can adapt to live in temperatures close to 0 C degree.
• "Its been theorized that with optimum temperatures and sufficient food source the worms would achieve maturity in 5-9 weeks, meaning that a population of 100 worms could produce an offspring population of 250 000 worms in a year."
• "..up to 20% of the waste materials weight can become wormbiomass ." (worm biomass is the worms themselves, not the worm castings)
• "The will never be a problem with overproduction of worm- biomass, as the worms can always be dried and ground to produce a plant fertilizer. The NPK value of the dried worms is approxemately 10-1-1. The worm-biomass also contains 0,8% sulphur, 0,6% calcium, 0,3% magnesium and minerals that benefit the growth of plants."


Worm Species Data

Eisenia fetida (foetida)/Eisenia andrei
Common names: redworm, tiger worm, manure worm

Maximum reproduction under ideal condtions:
3.8 cocoons per adult per week
83.2% hatching success rate
3.3 hatchlings per cocoon
Net reproduction of 10.4 young per adult per week

Maximum growth rate under ideal conditions:
32-73 days to cocoon hatch
53-76 days to sexual maturity
85-149 days from egg to maturity

Temperature requirements °C (°F):
Minimum 3°C (38°F)
Maximum 35°C (95°F)
Ideal range 21-27°C (70-80°F)
 
Last edited:
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

It shouldn't be too bad. Just mix up some soil and let it cook for a bit. Get some food scraps (I left the NPK values of foods if you wanted to tailor your compost a certain way) and then sprinkle on some Bokashi compost starter in a layer; first bokashi then some compost, then bokashi, then compost, and so on with bokashi as the last top layer. You can make a compost bin like the video link above and collect the extract leachate and pour in some water. then feed! The bokashi will help speed up the process.

Since there are worms in the soil, you need to feed them. So I made some containers with lids where I made holes so the worms can feed on the compost. This works like a worm bin where the top section is the worm food, then the next section is the worms with the leachate collecting in the bottom. Basically, your bed of soil is now a vermicomposting bin with pot plants growing in it.

I will top dress with some The Guano Company Super Tea dry mix for veg when they get a bigger and the guanos in the soil run out. I used Bongaloids soil recipe but it is a bloom recipe and it states that if you plan on using it for veg and bloom, then you will need to amend the soil after 2-3 months because the nitrogen will run out.


You just water at first and then when they get bigger, about a foot tall, then you can amend with a light dressing of guano. When you have compost extract, just dump it in some water when you feed. If you don't want to top dress the guano, then just follow the directions on the guano bag and put a few teaspoons in your watering can and let it sit for 12-24 hours. Then use that weekly. You can also add molasses if you want too.

So no brewing, no buying EWC, use compost (free) and guano (veg tea/Budswel $23 +/- each) to feed, which equals more time to do other things or train your girls or clean.
 
Last edited:
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

I was thinking about making my own bokashi from molasses, wheat germ and dry mycos powder. Theres videos on youtube to show you how. Bokashi is $22 per 2 lb bag and I've used quite a bit since you have to cover the food well. I could make a batch and compare decomposition times with the homemade version to see how effective it is. I want this grow cheap, no waiting to brew and just rinse out your watering can or whatever your using if you mix the guano or leachate in the water which means no cleaning and replacing airstones.
 

Nes

Member
Hey doubledd, I think this ROLS forum died and moved * * *
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

I probably should've waited to post this till the seeds grew more ( third set of leaves but still tiny). I did some rearranging with the schedule for what goes in and when due to some "learning experiences" and so this soil will have different genetics in it. I took a ton of clones and the ones that take first will go in first. I also redesigned my entire grow rooms and built frames with a 4x7 permanent scrog. I'm not a carpenter so it's a little rough but I'm really proud of it considering I've never built anything before, had no design plan except a bunch of odd pieces of 1x2's at various lengths and mismatched screws and nails. I did buy some concrete blocks and some wood for the frame that needed to be longer and the smart pot 4x4 beds. I am almost finished and just need to build the scrog and finish the chicken wire flooring to help keep the bed bottom elevated and access to air.

I am also eliminating the worms and compost inside the bed. I tried this on my last one and fungus gnats got in there and started breeding. I thought the lids would keep them out but being a newb, I didn't foresee this happening. Now I see that I basically invited them in by keeping my soil moist and not drying out in between waterings so the worms would have the moist environment that they like, providing compost to feed the worms but it breeds gnats and cooking soil outside in a tarp. So I am making sure the soil I mixed up that is waiting for this grow I not filled with gnats. it looks okay when I open it up and I don't see any flyers but I've kept it wrapped tight and in full sun for two weeks so it's going in tomorrow where I hope solarization happened and it's sterile. After I put it in, it's water only unless I need to fix a deficiency, with added fresh EWC, compost, and some molasses. I will post some pics when I finish building and setting up tonight hopefully. Sorry about the delay but I really want to see how this soil recipe goes.

Does anyone foresee issues arising I should address pertaining to the soil recipe?
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

Hey doubledd, I think this ROLS forum died and moved * * *

well I'm not recycling anymore so I should contact a mod. thanks Nes!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

not like you would've contributed much anyways. I went to your thread and commented and you've never replied. I'm looking for active contributing members. that comment had no value. that's as childless as unlike-ing something on facebook.
 

FatherEarth

Active member
Veteran
fwiw

fwiw

I know you can get around the fungus gnat issue there are several ways most all are microbial or fungal inoculants and or soil mites. remember with large amounts of soil indoors you are going to have at least a few flyers always but so long as they are not prolific no worries. Effective treatments that work well: Mosquito Dunks. Take a 5 gallon bucket of clean non tap water. With a gloved hand break up a whole dunk into 5 gal and allow it to sit for about 10 mins. Then water your beds or pots with it. The main active ingredient is Bacillus Thurgensis and will wipe em out in about 3 days no more flyers. Another one that has worked well for me is OG biowar. Mix per the instructions and water as usual all gone in 3 days as well. If your pots are large enough you shouldnt worry bout the worms they will go deeper for moisture as the upper layers dry out. IMO what you should be doing is observing leaf texture to know when to water. When leaves make the hardest prayer hands the soil is nearing its tipping point going too dry. Wrinkly dry looking leaves say water NOW. Too much water droopy clawed leaves with full looking wrinkle free leaves, sometimes the edges turn upwards and look frilly. Ive seen plants actually sweat water with a bead on every point on a serrated leaf as if placed by gnomes or something. In Big soil beds over watering isnt a big deal unless we are talking swamp status with poor drainage. If you got 20% air in your mix or better youll be fine. Dont be afraid to let your room get hot either. Big soil means they can take the heat. Mid to high 90's some days no worries but watch that you dont dry out they drink LOTS when its hot. One thing I should mention is that you cannot go high temps and big water without MEGA fresh air exchange. Something about stale air makes plants burn with that kind of heat indoors. They take it outdoors just fine and will indoors too IF you got buku air exchange. Just thought Id share my thoughts and experiences on the subject. I look forward to seeing some big soil bed action ... or did you throw in the towel??


FE
 

Shcrews

DO WHO YOU BE
Veteran
this looks cool. Organic living soil is still a pretty new concept to me so i will be watching and learning, maybe implementing some of the techniques and concepts in my indoor gardens. I grow in coco now but have used organic peat-based mixes in the past indoors and nothing beats the flavor IMO.

peace!
 
Top