Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[simple green]

I'm going to admit I haven't read this whole thread. These threads eventually lead to a lot of personal mudslinging that has little to do with the intent of the original post ("you're stupid, you don't understand what the Constitution means, you misspelled a word idiot, your mom's ugly.....")

In response to the point made by the original poster....

Right now simple possession is putting people in jail, costing good people their freedom, costing the taxpayers money, and contributing to a negative relationship between many otherwise good law abiding citizens and police.

If marijuana was legalized, and it was done in such a way that just the big companies offered their government approved weed with heavy excise taxes, the hard core folks that currently risk their freedom to grow and enjoy the variety of marijuana God has graced the earth with could still do so illegally. If they're not scared off by the laws and consequences now, I don't see why it would be different if weed were legalized under a government/corporate structure.

I do suspect that legalization would eventually lessen the stigma and eventually the penalties of growing weed, and it would certainly make it safer to carry/consume after the fact....

It would be great if the government just straight up "freed the plant", but that's not going to just happen. Controlled legalization is a step towards and away from that at the same time, but has far more benefits then drawbacks, and allows people with medical issues and casual users to freely access it.

 

[monsoon]

Everything is regulated. It's a pipe dream to believe a huge cash crop like weed will be left to the masses (messes) to grow/sell/profit from as they please. Colorado's laws aren't perfect...but as many of you will find...you have to pass stupid crap like licensing/taxes/regulation/retail sales of weed to have an inch of freedom to grow your personal stash in your own home without reproach. I DIDN'T want retail pot here...it ISN'T needed. Nobody here has EVER had a problem finding weed....yet....to get a solid/undeniable right to grow in my home I had to vote to allow for the commercial side of the game to exist. Take the good with the bad....like many times in life.

Cali's wake up call is coming. Gonna be interesting to see how the "top shelf" fares there when the small guys are cut off from supplying the market like happened here in 2010. Guaranteed the talk/dick swinging seen here time and time again will change when that happens. Yup.

good luck all

 

[JointOperation]

Yeh, my CO legal personal grow must be some kind of illusion, huh?

It's not really there, it's just my imagination. Or maybe you're the one imagining things. Or maybe it's just that Freedumb! isn't for everybody.

we are saying.. look the way alcohol is.. its legal. u can get it everywere.. but if u want to put a still in ur backyard.. u still get busted...

I think they will make people get licenses and only give out a set number like liquor licenses.. ? and all the moonshiners/ homegrowers.. are considered ILLEGAL.

especially because the fact that the main reason moonshining is illegal is because liquor taxes are so high that it takes money out of there pocket.. so.. even if it is LEGALIZED there will be laws in place just like moonshining.. to were not EVERYONE CAN JUST GROW THERE OWN .... not by a long shot..

if they legalize marijuana.. its going to be because of the money they are seeing other states make in TAXES.. meaning.. if u take money out of there POCKET.. the IRS will toss your ass in jail.. if u don't understand that.. then you haven't researched the reason for prohibition.. then the legalization of alcohol... and the reason why moonshining is still illegal.

just remember.. you get what you VOTE FOR.. just because alcohol is legal .. doesn't mean Everyone can start producing moonshine in there back yard.. just like wen pots legal. not everyone will be able to grow it.. it will be like alcohol in a sense that instead of dispensaries.. tho.. it will be sold at pharmacies more then likely.. is what the big wigs will want unless big pharma just opens dispensaries .. but either way.. big pharma is going to be the one benefiting from it being legal.. not the mom and pop shops.. and home growers..

 

[shaggyballs]

we are saying.. look the way alcohol is.. its legal. u can get it everywere.. but if u want to put a still in ur backyard.. u still get busted...

I think they will make people get licenses and only give out a set number like liquor licenses.. ? and all the moonshiners/ homegrowers.. are considered ILLEGAL.

especially because the fact that the main reason moonshining is illegal is because liquor taxes are so high that it takes money out of there pocket.. so.. even if it is LEGALIZED there will be laws in place just like moonshining.. to were not EVERYONE CAN JUST GROW THERE OWN .... not by a long shot..

if they legalize marijuana.. its going to be because of the money they are seeing other states make in TAXES.. meaning.. if u take money out of there POCKET.. the IRS will toss your ass in jail.. if u don't understand that.. then you haven't researched the reason for prohibition.. then the legalization of alcohol... and the reason why moonshining is still illegal.

just remember.. you get what you VOTE FOR.. just because alcohol is legal .. doesn't mean Everyone can start producing moonshine in there back yard.. just like wen pots legal. not everyone will be able to grow it.. it will be like alcohol in a sense that instead of dispensaries.. tho.. it will be sold at pharmacies more then likely.. is what the big wigs will want unless big pharma just opens dispensaries .. but either way.. big pharma is going to be the one benefiting from it being legal.. not the mom and pop shops.. and home growers..

Finally someone gets the big picture!

The country I live in is supposed to be a Government of the people, by the people, for the people!
Anything less and we should be ashamed of ourselves for allowing it.
Let the people be heard and speak out!

 

[shaggyballs]

Everything is regulated. It's a pipe dream to believe a huge cash crop like weed will be left to the masses (messes) to grow/sell/profit from as they please. Colorado's laws aren't perfect...but as many of you will find...you have to pass stupid crap like licensing/taxes/regulation/retail sales of weed to have an inch of freedom to grow your personal stash in your own home without reproach. I DIDN'T want retail pot here...it ISN'T needed. Nobody here has EVER had a problem finding weed....yet....to get a solid/undeniable right to grow in my home I had to vote to allow for the commercial side of the game to exist. Take the good with the bad....like many times in life.

Cali's wake up call is coming. Gonna be interesting to see how the "top shelf" fares there when the small guys are cut off from supplying the market like happened here in 2010. Guaranteed the talk/dick swinging seen here time and time again will change when that happens. Yup.

good luck all

I feel for ya!
Sounds like a trade off to me!
For instance.

Why in the should I have to give up my constitutional right to bare arms just to get medicine???

It does not even make sense!
That is so wrong on many many levels....if you want this then you must give up that!

Things may be great in certain places now.....but they may not stay that way.
Stay informed....do your research!
shag

 

[bentom187]

I beg to differ with you opinion sir, but you definitely do not have all the facts on this matter!

Being a sovereign is very involved,you just need to know how to do it correctly.

Like I keep saying, find the real truth for yourself.
Taxes are actually unconstitutional by law.
That is what this country was founded on....no tea tax!(BS but, it is what we are told)

But we are gettin off topic.

Evidence to your point about sovereignty.

Chisholm v. Georgia
2 U.S. 419 (1793)

Jay, Chief justice.
........
The same feudal ideas run through all their jurisprudence, and constantly remind us of the distinction between the Prince and the subject. No such ideas obtain here; at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects (unless the African slaves among us may be so called), and have none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty.................

 

[shaggyballs]

This gentleman has provided facts for you.
Please stay informed....know the real truth!
Find it for yourself....do not just take my(anyone's) word for it!
Stand tall for what you believe!
Give me freedom or give me DEATH.

I know some of you wish I would get the latter...LOL
But at least you are being informed.
That is most important!
shag

 

[SirStynkalot]

Case law has changed significantly since 1793, though. I mean, there are references to slavery in that.

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Evidence to your point about sovereignty.

Chisholm v. Georgia
2 U.S. 419 (1793)

Ah, the good ol days!

 

[bentom187]

Ok in the context that they had only needed to escape to free states where slavery was already outlawed. Dangerous ? yes, but we did the same thing to a monarch. Not to mention it is a excellent case in point for being armed.
Then further to the point of sovereignty, this man named Lysander Spooner a lawyer from Massachusetts destroyed the constitution as a contractual obligation being binding upon no one. As no one has the authority to force you to contract, that would be considered fraud anywhere, and this is especially true if they were dead for centuries.

No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority | by Lysander Spooner
[YOUTUBEIF]dWESql2dXoc[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Jhhnn]

The sovereign citizen movement is Libertopian delusion at its finest.

First off, Chisolm vs Georgia never was about what proponents claim it was about, at all-

Facts of the Case

In 1777, the Executive Council of Georgia authorized the purchase of needed supplies from a South Carolina businessman. After receiving the supplies, Georgia did not deliver payments as promised. After the merchant's death, the executor of his estate, Alexander Chisholm, took the case to court in an attempt to collect from the state. Georgia maintained that it was a sovereign state not subject to the authority of the federal courts.
Question

Was the state of Georgia subject to the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and the federal government?
Conclusion

In a 4-to-1 decision, the justices held that "the people of the United States" intended to bind the states by the legislative, executive, and judicial powers of the national government. The Court held that supreme or sovereign power was retained by citizens themselves, not by the "artificial person" of the State of Georgia. The Constitution made clear that controversies between individual states and citizens of other states were under the jurisdiction of federal courts. State conduct was subject to judicial review.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1792-1850/1793/1793_0

It affirmed supremacy of the federal judiciary.

The rest of it is pure fantasy as well, based on tedious arguments that the 16th amendment wasn't properly ratified & yada, yada, yada.

Playing that game is a great way to get bitch slapped into federal prison like a lot of others who tried to play it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

Anybody begging for martyrdom is welcome to go for it. You will be obliged.

 

[Granger2]

Wandered onto this thread, and won't waste anymore time. Just want to say that taxes being unconstitutional is silly and absolutely incorrect. Like, read the U.S. Constitution. Also, the Constitution was amended to create the Graduated Income Tax. -granger

 

[shaggyballs]

The sovereign citizen movement is Libertopian delusion at its finest.

First off, Chisolm vs Georgia never was about what proponents claim it was about, at all-



http://www.oyez.org/cases/1792-1850/1793/1793_0

It affirmed supremacy of the federal judiciary.

The rest of it is pure fantasy as well, based on tedious arguments that the 16th amendment wasn't properly ratified & yada, yada, yada.

Playing that game is a great way to get bitch slapped into federal prison like a lot of others who tried to play it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

Anybody begging for martyrdom is welcome to go for it. You will be obliged.

From your reference!

In 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers" with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."

Are they all in Federal prison?

 

[shaggyballs]

Wandered onto this thread, and won't waste anymore time. Just want to say that taxes being unconstitutional is silly and absolutely incorrect. Like, read the U.S. Constitution. Also, the Constitution was amended to create the Graduated Income Tax. -granger

I suggest you recheck your references sir!

Before it was amended ,Income tax was unconstitutional.
It was amended to help recover from the war.
Even then it was supposed to be temporary.

Why did we break away from england?
Something about taxes if I remember correctly..No???


Again I state find the real facts for yourselves.
We are told Betsy Ross sewed the first flag of the USA????
But is this true????

 

[Jhhnn]

I suggest you recheck your references sir!

Before it was amended ,Income tax was unconstitutional.
It was amended to help recover from the war.
Even then it was supposed to be temporary.

Why did we break away from england?
Something about taxes if I remember correctly..No???


Again I state find the real facts for yourselves.
We are told Betsy Ross sewed the first flag of the USA????
But is this true????

What war do you speak of, Kimosabe? The 16th amendment was adopted in Feb of 1913, before the start of WW1 in July of 1914, 5 years before our entry in 1918.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The last war we had was 15 years earlier, the Spanish American war of 1898.

 

[Jhhnn]

From your reference!

In 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers" with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."

Are they all in Federal prison?

"Believing" & "asserting" are 2 different things.

.033% of Americans are complete idiots? Color me surprised.

 

[armedoldhippy]

"Believing" & "asserting" are 2 different things.

.033% of Americans are complete idiots? Color me surprised.

all too true. one may believe anything he wants, but go into a federal courthouse & lay the "sovereign" horseshit on a judge & see what happens to you. oh, & be sure to put the film of your case on YouTube for us to mock heartily... I'd bet it is a whole lot more than .033% myself, LOL!

 

[armedoldhippy]

Before it was amended ,Income tax was unconstitutional.
It was amended to help recover from the war.
Even then it was supposed to be temporary.

but it WAS amended, & it never ended. having pot as a sch. 1 drug was only going to be temporary so the AMA did not fight them in court. last time I checked, it was still on there...

 

[shaggyballs]

What war do you speak of, Kimosabe? The 16th amendment was adopted in Feb of 1913, before the start of WW1 in July of 1914, 5 years before our entry in 1918.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The last war we had was 15 years earlier, the Spanish American war of 1898.

The war for independence.
Ya know like why was Bunker Hill slippery???

Cause the British were cummin'!!
Ya! that one.....LOL

And Paul Revere and the Raiders wrote all those cool rock songs......Better put the wax away now!
goodnight...zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[SirStynkalot]

From your reference!

In 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers" with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."

Are they all in Federal prison?

Might not wanna pull your figures from an organization that identifies and fights against hate groups...