Purple stems no leaf def...

[JuniorDavis]

general organics makes an organic cal mag that has no nitrogen and obviously no questionable chelates. ide also say it has to do with the cation exchange in coco, you need to keep the coco happy in order to keep the plant happy.

My problem I believe is that my coco is amended with calcium. If it is about the rate then maybe when I add calmag it is locking out the magnesium.

With human nutrition a lack of magnesium results in so many disorders it's unbelievable and no magnesium means no uptake of nutrients.

As canna said his outdoor ladies did better adding magnesium sulfate. The bioavailability for our plants in terms of magnesium sulfate is faster than other magnesium methods.

I have added calmag before and it made it worse.

I run the whole GO line as I try to keep everything simple and clean due to allergic reactions to synthetics and organics. So I grow veganically.

I want to try spinach water. Just the strained water from boiled spinach. It has mag, cal, potassium, iron, etc.

In a balance ratio and I'll test it soon enough.

Another thing discussed is VPD which mimics mag deficiency. So I've been raising humidity with some success.

 

[JuniorDavis]

Yeah I'd be careful about using calmag. I have it too, but found it's better left alone for the most part. I was reading some info about cation exchange in media, and it's definitely about the Ca:Mg:K ratio check it out: http://www.filedropper.com/understandingsoilv2-lowres

Playing with pH can help too. I'm very much thinking that a lot of deficiency is related to that. Assuming the base nutes are providing complete nutrition, which they should, then skewing pH either way on the relevant scale can help guide changes. I was reading somewhere about lowering the pH to release more Ca/K which will lower it if it's in excess, which when pH brought back up a little, Mg is more easily released, without the need to add additional Mg. Adding extra of the deficient nutrient wont help if it is unavailable due to pH. Have you done a slurry test to confirm the medias pH?

I don't PH because essentialy I am growing organic without any animal by-product.

"The key to Veganics is really the soil. It must be supercharged with a wide array of beneficial microbes and fungi. This is the only way to make sure that everything you add is and stays 100% bio-available. Thus providing suitable nutrition from extremely low NPK. While also keeping plants respiring at full capacity by constantly devouring old dead root mass and keeping nutrients available through the entire acceptable pH range. That’s 5.5-7.0, rather than constantly adjusting nutrient solutions to keep it in the sweet spot. Adjustment of pH is virtually unnecessary when using Veganic nutrients in a Veganic medium."

Essentially I feel this is what I am doing and almost achieving. Everyone keeps saying they look healthy, and for the most part I agree.

The purple stems are weak though and they aren't expressed throughout the whole plant. Only in specific locations.

It has to be VPD (my humidity is around 48) and the exchange rate.

Maybe too many microbes? Maybe need to do 1:1 bloom grow like some have stated. Since there isn't enough phosphrus.

Maybe I do need the biomarine; it is in there feeding chart. As optional.

I don't mind the smell; they just haven't answered me on where it is sourced from.

If it's from the pacific I'm all set with adding cesium to my plants due to fukushima.

I was gonna do a slurry and say what ph I'm at. I feel it's too high (excess N, lack of Posphorus), maybe due to my microbial tea? Maybe something in my Ogtea is making my medium super alkaline.

 

[cannacultural]

I use a range of microbial products with my grow. A general inoculant with a very wide range of AM ecto/edo mycorrhizae + another inoculant/stimulant product (seaweed/fish based) + GH Flora 6/9 ratio. I see it as fitting in the sweet spot between organic and synthetic. Outdoors is completely organic though, compost, worm castings, guano fed with tea and fish emulsion.

I don't think you can have too many microbes. They should balance out according to the environment, and none should pose negative effects. However one observation I'd make based on my setup is that by using particular microbes which assist in N or P uptake, can change the uptake/balance from what you feed. It complicates it all I guess a little, so I tend to feed a bit soft. I feed my pH at a range from 5.5-5.8, mostly it ends up being 5.7 and things are pretty good (this is the coco grow, outdoors is tap pH of around 7).

VPD is definitely worth considering, environmental stress will always exacerbate an existing condition (eg deficiency) or help to express it. VPD would be a factor in how the plant is transpiring and therefore effecting the 3 pathways for nutrients to enter the plant

 

[Asslover]

Theirs NOTHING wrong with those plants, any of them. NOTHING!!!!!!
You're over thinking things and seeing things that just aren't there. Theirs no deficiency going on, no lockout, no over ferting. The leaves are picture perfect.
VPD? Too many microbes? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
Go on and grow on, theirs nothing wrong with your plants.

 

[JuniorDavis]

Theirs NOTHING wrong with those plants, any of them. NOTHING!!!!!!
You're over thinking things and seeing things that just aren't there. Theirs no deficiency going on, no lockout, no over ferting. The leaves are picture perfect.
VPD? Too many microbes? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
Go on and grow on, theirs nothing wrong with your plants.

Playing devils advocate; Why the purple stripes in veg and not flower?

What is happening in veg to cause that but when they are a week in flower they out grow the stripe?

Why are the stripe stems weak and extremely flexible compared to the green strong stem parts?

What is naturally about all my strains doing this. Even little oak seedlings I have are showing it.

The only thing I have going that isn't getting this stripe is a ruderalis strain I accidentally mixed with another strain.

I've been trying to flush this auto flower for 2 weeks and the leaves actually went from yellow to green and have barely changed. I haven't even fed it.

I also had 3 seedlings on the window sill that I watered 2 times then neglected them and didn't water for weeks.

They didn't wilt or show any sign of deficiency or stripe. Until I fed them. Then instant purple.


The purple isn't a characteristic it's a symptom of something.


I agree there is no sign of deficiency but there is a symptom. Causing that purple.

I noticed the auto flowe didn't like darkness. Grew her on 24/7 and she had no problem and didn't need any feed after first few initials. So maybe light is stressing them out?

 

[LSWM]

I think VPD plays a role as well. Until I have a sealed room where all environmental variables can be adjusted independently. I'm not sure I'll be able to completely resolve this.

I think the problem, however slight it may be, is due to some combination of VPD, nutrient ratios, and inherent properties of coco. I believe there is a solution, and we'd be getting better growth if we could get there.

I'll be sealing up my room this winter and hope to have everything dialed with my humidity in veg at least @ 50%. Currently I'm having a hard time keeping it above 30%, so I think the purpling of our rooms is VPD related.

 

[Asslover]

I think VPD plays a role as well. Until I have a sealed room where all environmental variables can be adjusted independently. I'm not sure I'll be able to completely resolve this.

I think the problem, however slight it may be, is due to some combination of VPD, nutrient ratios, and inherent properties of coco. I believe there is a solution, and we'd be getting better growth if we could get there.

I'll be sealing up my room this winter and hope to have everything dialed with my humidity in veg at least @ 50%. Currently I'm having a hard time keeping it above 30%, so I think the purpling of our rooms is VPD related.

 

[Asslover]

I don't take pics of veggers because, well, they're boring to look at. But here's a pre98 bubba @ day 1 of flower. Look closely at the purple leaf stems and purple striping on some stalks. The room is 100% sealed, co2'd, dehumidified, mini split AC. Temps NEVER get above 80 or below 76. Humidity NEVER gets above 60% or below 50%. (Botanicare) Coco, perlite, GH Flora series.
Your plants are perfectly healthy. But hey, keep changing things. Sooner or later you WILL end up with a problem...

 

[LSWM]

I don't take pics of veggers because, well, they're boring to look at. But here's a pre98 bubba @ day 1 of flower. Look closely at the purple leaf stems and purple striping on some stalks. The room is 100% sealed, co2'd, dehumidified, mini split AC. Temps NEVER get above 80 or below 76. Humidity NEVER gets above 60% or below 50%. (Botanicare) Coco, perlite, GH Flora series.
Your plants are perfectly healthy. But hey, keep changing things. Sooner or later you WILL end up with a problem...

Cool, so you think your room was birthed from the vagina of the virgin mary and there is no room for improvement? I'm not sure you read my post properly or not, but I said "the problem, however slight it may be." Please note that I'm simply suggesting room for improvement. Hardly would I say these plants are unhealthy, nor would anyone else.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Through many grows in soil and now coco I've never been able to grow plants that didn't have purple striped stalks and purple stems, no matter what strain. I've never had dialed in grow rooms and never will. Living on top of the world I use the air I have and it's frikken cold. They grow in lights off temps between 40-50 in winter and 40-60 in summer. I just assumed the purple is from low temps and see no other drawbacks so I sure am not laying out a lot of cash to keep their toes from turning purple. I'm sure other things can cause the purple and I'm pretty sure I know what causes mine.

 

[Infected361]

i agree. too much thinking.

these are from my magenta mom. its a lipping purple stemmed plant and it is not a weak and floppy plant. root damn fast too.

pretty is what i think

 

[Asche]

the red comes from the Anthocyanin in the plants which is perfectly natural.
you find it more in some in others less, its a phenotypical expression.

no deficiencies.

 

[Asslover]

Cool, so you think your room was birthed from the vagina of the virgin mary and there is no room for improvement? I'm not sure you read my post properly or not, but I said "the problem, however slight it may be." Please note that I'm simply suggesting room for improvement. Hardly would I say these plants are unhealthy, nor would anyone else.

If you can find an area of improvement then please let me know
The point of my post was to illustrate how a plant in a controlled environment does exactly what the OP's plants are doing.
Soooo, to the OP...Your plants are healthy right now.

 

[sureshot66]

calmag 1-2ml

 

[d3cryption]

If you can find an area of improvement then please let me know
The point of my post was to illustrate how a plant in a controlled environment does exactly what the OP's plants are doing.
Soooo, to the OP...Your plants are healthy right now.

Higher temps? Using c02 shouldn't your temp be in the mid 80s...?

 

[JuniorDavis]

I am away from home right now and extemely busy. I have foud literature to support the fact that purpling is an issue with uptake a phosphorus and yes LSWM is correct.

This isn't my first grow and I have a good understanding how how things "grow" now.

There is a slight stuntness of growth and like I said the stripe goes away in flower.

In soil I didn't have this and in flower I don't either.

I will touch upon this later when I have the time with more information and photo's.

 

[Nifty_PoT]

^^ I have also experienced purple stems alot , its really nothing to worry about . Vegetative nutrients have a really low amount of P , usually about 20-30ppm roughly.
Low P will help the plants stay shorter and reduce stretch untill after 2 weeks flower when you switch to flower nutrients , which will have allot more P (50-100ppm roughly) .

You dont want to be adding to much P in veg or even early flower as it wil just make em stretch and you end up with leggy plants!

IMO you don't have to worry about this , KISS

 

[l orange bud l]

or is it not enough ca messing up nute uptake like p etc. ?

 

[Cannatarian]

If it doesn't happen in soil, then it's the coco. Is it brick coco? If so, the inherent lockout problems are to blame. If it's not top quality, pre-buffered coco pith, then those same inherent lockouts will occur. Irrespective, if you go with a top quality bag of pre-buffered coco (ie, Canna), you'll see improvement. The quality of the coco combimed with the fact that you're amending with an alkali: calcium something-or-other..will create a tough uptake-environment for phosphorus. This alone can cause weak purple stems. Then, your 24hr lighting schedule gives them less roots, (because they focus on rooting/repair while in their darktime resting phase), which will also lead to minor deficiencies (I assume that the little micro roots grow more in the darkness). Another thing could be day/night temperature differences, more than 15° F difference will purple anything.

It's obviously not a strain-specific coloration, or a normal part of a fully-functioning grow room (it's medium-dependant), and you wanna figure it out, kudos to you for striving for perfection!

So, my advice is thus: stick to unamended (except perlite at 70/30) quality coco pith; go with the GO half grow half bloom for your veg phase; add GO's organic ca/mg+ supplement (coco needs more ca/mg to thrive, but not physically locked into the medium) to your feedings; don't irrigate with plain water; and, finally, give veg'ers at least 6 hrs of light.

Peace!

 

[FlaDankster]

What kind of lights do you veg under?