help :(1 week old, light green in color, yellow tips -pro-mix

[boooyah]

Perhaps you should take a ponder at this.. it comes from an experienced grower like yourself. It came from http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?101953-Ruderalis-A-Misnomer it shows some differences between a regular mj plant a a hybrid auto

He goes onto say.. "if you come to the table with a preconceived set of notions and expectations then you of course will not be pleased, because this plant is not like any marijuana plant i have encountered in my experiences as a grower overt the last 18 years."

As well as "C. Always start your Ruderalis hybrid in the same place or container you plan to harvest it from.
Reason:the main tap root will only develop to a certain point due to the fact that ruderalis has no veg period and starts in flower mode from seed, so the plants size and ability to produce flowers will be determined by how much the tap root can grow in its first 2-3 weeks of development, once you see the first signs of flowers "within 4-5 weeks" all tap root growth is completed and the plants over all abilities to produce has been decided or limited by its container."

 

[heatherlonglee]

In Pro-Mix HP over watering will not be a problem unless you water everyday! OP has stated many times he understands about over watering; and has also posted photo's of a dry looking pot! The large pot will be fine! Forget the over watering thing Cat Jockey! I will say again, he's using Pro-Mix HP! If you don't now what that means silence!

 

[Cat Jockey]

Oh, booyah. First of all, I don't know anything at all about who you are linking to, nor do you know if their experiences are mine. I can show you someone has been growing for 30 years, but sucks balls at it. Good person, but his growing weed for 30 years, consisted of throwing bag seed in a pot on a windowsill, to 25 years later, still using bagseed, growing it under T8's, having read like two old books years previously. And then he met me, and I hooked him up. ANd he still wasn't that great, because he refused to really study what he was doing, or follow many of the pointers I gave him and he produces Intermediate level weed - but he sure liked to tell everyone he was growing for 30 years.

I just made a pot of coffee, smoked a bowl, got some shit done and you haven't told me I'm a complete dickhead yet and told me to get the fuck outta your thread (unless I missed it) - let me go click on that thread and see what you want me to see and read. And then I'll give you my thoughts on it all.

And I'm willing to read your link, perhaps would you be willing to read one of mine? I posted this link to my post in another Infirmary thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6361327&postcount=315

That dude has an entertaining grow thread going on.

Now, the connection to what I said there is I want you to consider where my advice is coming from. You have no doubt come across other myths on the weed forums, concerning the need for Cal/Mag with RO, that RDWC can't be run under a pH of 5.6, that no way can you feed plants in peat/perlite/vermic (PPV) with a nutrient solution that is a pH of 5.3, every strain is so different it needs a special nutrient mix just for it, etc.

There are a lot of different strains in those pictures. ALL on the same nutrient regime and pH (RDWC get less ppm). Not one nutrient disorder or pH issue anywhere on those plants. Just with a couple pics, I can disprove some of those weed forum 'facts'. Some damn chisled in mudder fuggin' internet stone, for awhile, weed forum 'absolute facts'

There is further significance of why I want you to think about that particular room of mine. Some of those plants are YEARS old. This plant that you can see with the 3 individual woody stems coming out is probably 6-7 years old. Bubblegum, btw. Those stems join at the meristem, but I buried it when I repotted it. Previous to being in that 5 gallon bucket, it spent years as a much smaller bonsai mom in a 6" pot under a CFL. When I opened that room and upped production, I grew it out and stopped bonsai'ing it.

The significance of that is a guy who has kept a plant alive and healthy for that many years knows all about salt build ups and nutrient lockouts over the course of time in the rootzone. And how to avoid them:



Who knows what strain this is, as I had probably 60 strains at any one time in that room:



Now. That's a 5 gallon bucket. Real close to the size of your 4 gallon pots. Your seedlings, though, and their root structure, are many, many, many times smaller than that mother plant. Do you see how disproportionate you have your pot size to plant size?

And that, in addition to the lime, is a big problem I am trying to get across. You are going to deal with salt build up BECAUSE of that disproportionate pot size resulting from an inability to water to 10-15% runoff, to flush your rootzone every feed. And that will, absolutely no if, ands, or buts, reduce the quantity and quality of your yield. By how much? Potentially significantly.

Granted, over the course of time and waterings, some perlite will 'float' to the top, so the mix isn't quite as heavy on perlite as it looks, but you can see on that Bubblegum plant, Cat Jockey likes him sum perlite. And so do the Sweet Lady Jane Plants. For a PPV mix, I use this shit:

The 4P is for more perlite in that mix, and I add even more. For good reason. As a tangent, I don't know if Fafard is available in retail yet (I get it from a garden wholesaler), but it is pretty good shit and easy to work with, if anyone ever comes across it:



Obviously I had just put some freshly rooted clones in some 'dirt' that really isn't soil, but a soiless medium. R.I.P. Bubba Dog, R.I.P.

I'm going to go follow that link and see what there is to see. Keep in mind that if the root structure is that much less robust, it becomes even more important, for the sake of the quality and quantity of your harvest to get your pot sizes right.

Now, let me go read that link ...

 

[heatherlonglee]

I'm not so impressed by some plants in veg with no deficiencies. Post some photo's deep into flowering like weeks 7-10.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Okay, booyah. I read it. And then I imposed my will on the caffeine in my system, got a little sleep and just awoke a few minutes ago to a couple warm, slimy dog tongues licking my face.

This is obviously the part that you are taking away from that post:

C. Always start your Ruderalis hybrid in the same place or container you plan to harvest it from.
Reason:the main tap root will only develop to a certain point due to the fact that ruderalis has no veg period and starts in flower mode from seed, so the plants size and ability to produce flowers will be determined by how much the tap root can grow in its first 2-3 weeks of development, once you see the first signs of flowers "within 4-5 weeks" all tap root growth is completed and the plants over all abilities to produce has been decided or limited by its container.

To begin with, keep this in mind:

its just now July and I'm almost ready to harvest

The dude has not even harvested his FIRST autflower grow, it appears, at the time of posting this advice. He doesn't have a clue how big his roots are at this point.

Basically, the dude is pulling shit outta his ass to fluff up his thread, and coming up with stuff to try to position himself as 'The Guru' over there concerning autoflowers. I'm sure he is a fine individual, but that is what he is doing. Further, I spent the time to register there, so I could see the pics, and, quite frankly and honestly, was not really impressed. There was one pic that gave a clear indication of a rootzone issue - some of this stuff is subtle and missed by most.

The point being, I see a pic with a leaf displaying a rootzone issue, after 18 years of growing ...? Maybe some 'o dat 18 years of growing was the kind that guy I knew that I mentioned.

Let me break it down further:

Always start your Ruderalis hybrid in the same place or container you plan to harvest it from.
Reason:the main tap root will only develop to a certain point due to the fact that ruderalis has no veg period and starts in flower mode from seed,

A does not follow B, here. Of course the tap root will only develop to a certain point. So what? That, IN NO WAY, then leads to his conclusion. What it actually means, is that autoflowers need a smaller container then your average hybrid.

The issue I am talking about is an inability to mange your rootzone properly, through your watering procedures, due to an out-of-whack root mass to growing medium ratio.

There is absolutely nothing in the fact that autoflowers have a less developed root zone that can lead to that conclusion - he pulled it outta his ass for something to put between point B & D.

And, again, transplanting is NOT a stressful, stunting process. Now, I have certainly seen plenty of begginer/intermediate growers transplant a not 100% healthy plant and do something like get the new soil too wet and then run around claiming that transplanting 'shocks & stresses' the plant. Bullshit. Not for a Sativa, an Indica, a hybrid, or an autoflower. Or a mudder fuggin' rhodendron. This is a plant thing - not a cannabis species specific thing.

so the plants size and ability to produce flowers will be determined by how much the tap root can grow in its first 2-3 weeks of development

Well, the size of the root structure is but ONE piece of the puzzle of the flower production, a process where both quantity and quality are being sought. For any given plants root structure, it ain't just the size - it is also the structure and the root/grow medium ratio.

And just, if not more important (which it probably is), to your flower production is the condition of your rootzone and how you maintain. This is where your pot size comes in. With that big of a pot for the size of the plant today, and in three weeks, you have given up a major part of this control.

And it absolutely will have a negative impact upon your harvest. No way around it. And that is the goal, one you expressed, in not so many words, and a goal of pretty much every farmer, new or expereinced, when they pop a seed or root a clone - to get as much of the highest quality weed out of their crop.

I mean, that is pretty much the only goal, when you get down to it.

once you see the first signs of flowers "within 4-5 weeks" all tap root growth is complete

Well, I won't say that ain't true, but let's remember this autoflower 'expert' hasn't even chopped his first autflower crop. And he is growing in dirt - and unless he has x-ray vision, he cannot see his root structure to know when it actually stopped. You need to be in something like an aerocloner setup or a RDWC bucket to be able to inspect the root mass on a daily basis to see at what point root growth actually stops.

I do think it important for autoflower growers to have an understanding of when root growth stops. And knowing that information allows you to make an informed decision on ONE thing, and ONE thing only - your FINAL pot size. NOT starting pot size, but the final pot size (And I'm not so sure you wouldn't be better off in a 3 gallon pot for that, at this point).

That's the only thing about an autoflower's root growth you need to consider when determining pot size.

plants over all abilities to produce has been decided or limited by its container.

This is just simply not true. A plant's overall ability to produce is decided by WAY more things than the size of the container. In fact, providing you're not on the extreme ends of the spectrum, like with a seedling in a 4 gallon pot or trying to shove that one mother in the bucket I posted above in a 6 inch pot, container size is not, at all, the most important thing in determining the plants ability to produce.

I've obviously got a woody about your container size, but that is because the size you have going limits your control over the rootzone. It not only limits, but absolutely will introduce problems. The severity of which will vary due to all of the variables particular to you and your growroom. And I think you have set yourself up to be on the more severe side of the limitations.

When you water with a good 10-15% runoff, you are not just adding to the root zone. You are exchanging. You are performing a mini flush, a mini cleanout. Of what? Salts. Unspent nutrient solution and other crap from all of that ionic exchange.

You cannot water like that though, else you will have that days and days of completely waterlogged medium, which absolutely, positively retard root growth. And if you don't over saturate the medium, the only way to do so is by not flushing your rootzone through - every watering, you will accumulate more crap in the rootzone that will fuck with the pH down there, and actually impede your plant's growth.

And reduce the final quantity and quality of your yield.

That guy made shit up on a weed forum, booyah. People like to do that. There is a certain anonymity that comes along with this stuff, and a strong desire for people to be looked up to a regarded as 'the shit' on a topic. The dude you linked to was doing just that - trying to position himself. And in my eyes, he didn't do anything like that. He actually spouted off a couple nonsensical things, his container stuff being one of them.

My advice, however, is not pulled outta my ass. And it is not just the product of my experiences and obsevations - it is pretty commonly accepted. What I am telling you to do is very, very tried and true and accepted, for quite some time, in the weed growing world.

Let me know if I didn't explain any of that well ...

 

[Cat Jockey]

I'm not so impressed by some plants in veg with no deficiencies. Post some photo's deep into flowering like weeks 7-10.

Lol. So the fuck what you ain't impressed.

Further, those weren't just 'some plants in veg'. That was a 10,000 Watt mother room, running multiple grow systems with a whole bunch'o strains. So, Ms. Unimpressed, can you find me another pic on this website of a RDWC system with 24 different strains on one nute solution, and at a pH that supposedly won't work? Of completely healthy mother plants in PPV, some approaching a decade in life, that are fertilized with a nutrient solution at about 5.2-5.3?

Don't think ya will, young lady. Those aren't just some plants in veg, nor did I post them to wave my dick. But, it doesn't surprise me that someone who isn't all that experienced at growing weed (which it looks to be the case with you with the watering and fertilizing advice you handed out in this thread), doesn't quite understand the significance of all of that ...

Wanna see pics of that clone closet for that room with x,xxx clones in it? Tough shit. Wanna see pics of veg and flower rooms attached to that mother room? Tough shit.

When you are playing the x,xxx plant count game, that serious time in serious big boy jail if you get popped.

I ain't fuggin' stupid enough to go around handing out electronic evidence to the po-po with grows that big. But you haven't played that game, so I dount you really thought any of this through before you hit reply.

What the fuck is up with you and your demands? Demands in your signature, demands outta me. It's irritating and pretentious ...

Kiss my ass sweet cheeks, I ain't showing you shit, just 'cause you got butt-hurt in this thread ...

This thread is about booyah's garden, not mine.

Now be a dear and spell check my posts for me ...

 

[boooyah]

Back on the subject of these plants.. any suggestion for the ro water?

 

[boooyah]

you say a ph of 5.1-2, or so, up to about 6.1-2, or so - is the ideal ph range

so I should ph down to 5.1, and the lime will bring it up, correct?

 

[Smokin Joe]

I run my promix at 5.6 to 5.8. Here is a little chart that you may find useful

 

[boooyah]

http://www.cannabis.com/growing/dualph10.jpg

 

[boooyah]

Thanks Joe,

I have that same chart printed out, and underneath it is that chart that I posted the link to.
It shows in the bottom right corner "Ph of nutrient water or saturated soiless mediums" I know it has been debated as to wether or not to run pro-mix like hydro or soil.. I have been giving it to them at 6.0, perhaps a bit lower would help

 

[boooyah]

 

[Smokin Joe]

Looks like they are chuggin along
I treat promix like hydro and the only problems I've had is human error

 

[boooyah]

If the grow was all white widows it would be lookin all good, that one is in the last pic

 

[heatherlonglee]

Flowering plants looking healthy or it didn't happen!

OP can still water to runoff? These plants will be bigger real soon like a week away maybe 10-11 days. Then OP can water to runoff! 12-15 days of watering with no runoff is fine! Not a problem. As plants grow large water like we all know how!

Cat Jockey you sure do know a few beginner tricks and like going over the basics, claiming master grower! You don't know Pro-Mix HP! It's not a pot of soil, you don't let Pro-Mix completely dry out! Will only slow growth of plants. In a 4 gal pot you can water every 3-4 days and all will be fine! Keep the Pro-Mix HP moist just don't be watering everyday. Drain the water from the bottom of the pots, I use a turkey baster to suck out the runoff.

 

[heatherlonglee]

Booyah if you would please list Earth Juice and other products you'll be using? You should get the info your asking from the directions on your nutrients. What kind of water does the Earth Juice say to use? What kind of PH does the Earth Juice say to use? I don't believe these master growers have suggested you follow directions of fertilizer. Actually I did recommend something like that =)

 

[2 Legal Co]

Flowering plants looking healthy or it didn't happen!

OP can still water to runoff? These plants will be bigger real soon like a week away maybe 10-11 days. Then OP can water to runoff! 12-15 days of watering with no runoff is fine! Not a problem. As plants grow large water like we all know how!

Cat Jockey you sure do know a few beginner tricks and like going over the basics, claiming master grower! You don't know Pro-Mix HP! It's not a pot of soil, you don't let Pro-Mix completely dry out! Will only slow growth of plants. In a 4 gal pot you can water every 3-4 days and all will be fine! Keep the Pro-Mix HP moist just don't be watering everyday. Drain the water from the bottom of the pots, I use a turkey baster to suck out the runoff.

I'm confused. Do you recommend watering to run off at this stage, or is 'water to run off' for later? If it's later, how much later?/How big should they be before the 'run off' phase?

Please clarify, for my benefit if no one else's.

 

[boooyah]

I believe watering to run off at this point may cause over watering, and damping off of the small lil plant, but in 2 weeks or so from now, they should have a decent amount of root to pot ratio and then water to run off should work no prob.

heather, I will be using earth juice grow,bloom,catalyst,meta-k, and micro. I also have hygrozyme, myco madness, LXR black humic acid, and lxr gold fulvic acid, and some blackstrap molasses as well.

 

[boooyah]

Earth juice website recommends using tap water, they are not too specific on ph. Basically if the ph is above 4 and rising they claim it is good to go. Also they mention this - "Earth Juice’s Non-Burning, No Salt Residue formula is intended for “Hand-Feeding” applications only."

 

[Cat Jockey]

Flowering plants looking healthy or it didn't happen!

I guess you didn't understand me. Lick my balls with your demands, honey. You irritate me with them ...

12-15 days of watering with no runoff is fine! Not a problem. As plants grow large water like we all know how!

Who said anything about 12-15 days? I'm talking about his entire crop cycle. As plants grow large? Not in all gardens, they don't. And the more mistakes one has in that crop cycle, the smaller they'll be.

(EDIT): 'Cause I forgot this part. Like 'we all know how'? Got a mouse in yer pocket, 'cause overwatering is in the top three mistakes made by new growers, and it ain't number 3 on the list. It is something that new growers NEED TO FAMILIARIZE themselves with. You are talking vague bullshit about how to poperly water with 'just water enough with mild nutes'. Wtf does that mean in the real world? I am providing specifics, like 10-15% runoff and using the 'lift the pot' method, which works pretty damn good for the majority of new growers.

Cat Jockey you sure do know a few beginner tricks

You're an f'ing fool. Growing 24 different mother strains on one RDWC nute solution at a pH that isn't supposed to work isn't a beginner trick. Keeping an anuual plant in the condition I have for almost a decade isn't a beginner trick being fed a nute solution of 5.2-3 ain't a beginner trick. Managing multiple systems in one room isn't a beginner trick.

With the watering and fertlizing advice you are handing out in this thread, and your complete cluelessness on porper pot sizing and how imporatnt it is and the fact that if he does what you suggest, modify his watering and fertilizing schedule to meet a fucked up pot size potentially causing him a pretty good reduction in the quantity and quality, it is quite clear to me that there are a few beginner's tricks you are oblivious about and that I could teach ya, if you had an open mind about it ...

You sure you ain't an 18 year old dude, Heather? 'Cause that's how yer acting with all the pride yo have thrown out there in this thread, now wounded and you hurling insults at me.

Making demands of what pics of my gardens I post. Insinuating I am a liar if I do not meet your demands and post pics of a flower room. Gimme a break.

I am addressing the information you have put out there in this thread that is bad. And I ain't just calling it bad. I have taken time to explain both why it is bad and a better way to do it and why there is a better way and how that better way works. You, on the other hand, in response, are just trying to attack and discredit me personally.

And I am not doing that to be a dick. There is nothing personal here - I'm well aware that the net, and weed forums, do weird things to people's personalities, and were this discussion happening in real life, there would be much less conflict, so, I don't have any personal issues with you here, and in person, you are probably less irritating ...

But, we're on the net, on a weed forum, talking about this

And now, you are being stubborn in that defense of pride you ahve engaged in, leading me to the question, from tha tbehavior, "Ya sure you ain't an 18 year old dude, 'cause now, that's how yer acting". And it is still irritating.

In addition to your demands (note that I am not making any - well, I demanded you spell check my posts, but I think we all know I was being a smartass, versus you, who are actually making actual demands of people, or else you claim them discredted if they don't meet your demnads), in your posts and your sig, you seem to lament the absence of neg rep and bustin' people's chops about it? Pissing and arguing on the net - is that yo thang?

Even when you are wrong? Hmmm ...

See lots 'o those squiggley red lines. Oh, well, hitting submit post ...