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Plant Problem, Please Help!

R

Rookiegrower

Member
I'm a first time grower. I am using a BCNL Bloombox to grow and I moved the plants to the Flowering Chamber to veg the rest of the way before flowering (changed the HPS light to MH). Here are the conditions and pictures.

PH: 5.3-6.3
Air Temp: 75-82 F
Water Temp (Hydro): 64 - 65 F
RH: 41-61 %
Grown in Rockwool

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Please Help
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

Member
That's an unusual necrosis for the relative age of the plant. At first glance, it resembles a P or K (potentially Mg, too) deficiency, but that is not common in plants that young. A few more details can help us.

1. How old are the plants?

2. Was there chlorosis (yellowing) first, or just straight to necrosis (dead brown spots)?

3. How many days did it take for this to occur?

4. How many plants affected?

5. Appears to be occurring only on lower leaves (if you have time to snap a pic of the whole plant, that can help)?

6. What kind of water are you using - tap or RO?

7. Do you manually adjust the pH of your solution with pH Up or Down?

8. Any purpling of the stems?

9. Any chance a foreign substance got on the leaf, like a chemical, even your nutes?

10. Any bugs on the under side of the leaf?

I've never run CO2 with anything less than thowies for light, so I can't comment on your ppms for that.

Gonna go run the doggies for a bit in the woods. I'll check back in a few hours ...
 
R

Rookiegrower

Member
Excellent, I'm good at answering questions.

1. Dropped seeds in water 22 days ago

2. The leaves of all the plants has seemed slightly light green rather than having dark green leaves. It's my first grow so I don't have much to compare to.

3. It literally came out of nowhere, I woke up this morning and the leaf looked like that. I can only guess it happened overnight.

4. I looked pretty closely at the other plants and it appears like this is starting to occur on all of the plants. But this one is the worst by far.

5. On that plant it appears only on the lower leaves but it is showing slightly on other plants closer to the top.

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6. Gerber Mixing Water (Distilled) with Mag and Cal

7. I adjust the PH manually with a HM PH Pen. I adjust it when it hits 6.2, I use PH down and adjust to 5.3, two or three times a day. I have a water chiller running water temp of 64-65 degrees F.

8. After you asked about the purpling of the stems I would have to say absolutely. Based on that pic I took, is that what you mean by purple?

9. It is possible nutes got on all the leaves that are showing problems as I have had to water them manually because the watering system seems to be watering inconsistantly accross plants. When I do that, a little water can get spilled. I dry it up as soon as I spill it though.

10. No Bugs that I can see, looks really clean under the leaves so whatever is happening must be starting on top.

I am also noticing the plants look a little droopy all of a sudden. I'm wondering if they are getting water logged. Seems like growth slowed significantly all of a sudden. :-/

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I really appreciate your help

- Bird
 
R

Rookiegrower

Member
My nutrients are being mixed below suggested but only slightly as I didn't want to nute burn them like I did my mother plants (they are recovering well now). Here is a list of Nutes that I am using:

Common
Grow
VegBoom
Cal Mag+
SuperThrive
Rapid Start

Ph 5.5
water temp 64-65
Air Temp: 74-81
CO2: 800-1400 PPM
RH: 41-55%

Dont know if this helps?
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

Member
Got tied up last night. Let me smoke another bowl and let some of this coffee I'm drinking kick in, and I'll read your answers again and more thoroughly and check your pics. Looks like there is some good info in some of those answers.

I did a quick Google search on your growbox. F'ng awesome ... Awesome 'cause I'm a weed geek and think self-contained grow boxes are neat. And awesome 'cause yours particularly, is nothing more than a NewGangaBoy stealth cabinet. Old OverGrowers will know that name. Pretty sweet that some stoner's design he came up with years ago and threw up on a grow forum, got turned into a production model and all fancy, and shit.
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

Member
The 'ol hippie speedball (Sweet Lady Jane and a pot 'o coffee) has kicked in. And then the doggies needed to be fed, etc. And this post is going to be a bit wordy, 'cause with the necrosis and the purpling stems, that points to a phosphorus deficiency. But, as I noted, that is a bit unusual - plants this young and still in veg exhibiting such a severe P deficiency is unusual, unless there is something pretty wrong with the nutrient regime and/or rootzone, in one way or another, so the whole process needs to be analyzed.

And it should always be noted that many things and many individual growrooms are pretty easy to diagnose, but not everything always shows itself in 'textbook fashion' in the real world. So, the mo' info, the mo' better.

I watched the walk through video on the grow box. That thing is pretty sweet. NewGanjaBoy definitely lives on ...

Now that I see it is DWC, another good pic to snap would be a shot of the roots. Like if you can lift the lid of the reservoir, or if you can pull one of the net pots out, or both. And also the level of your reservoir - where the nutrient solution level is relative to the bottom of the net pot.

The pic of the whole plant helps. At this point, it looks like you have a nutrient solution issue. I asked about the solution levels in the res, because they have that overwatering droop thing going on, too. But, a jacked up nutrient solution that has been through some 'pH stress' can display those same signs, in my experiences.

So, now on to your base nutrient regime, and some more questions about it, starting with, what is the ppm?

I don't know anything about the nutes you are using. And I can't seem to find out, 'cause they don't say shit about them on the grow box page. Nothing that I could find, just their "Gold, Silver, Bronze" package. And the names of the nutrients, like 'Tons O Bud' and 'VegBoom'.

The growbox looks pretty sweet. The upsell on the nutrients with names that sound like they belong on a rap record, well ... Top it off with ZERO information on their website about what their nutrients are all about, what's in 'em, guaranteed analysis numbers, etc.

So, Future Harvest appears to be the mfg of the nutes (after ye 'ol Google search), btw.

Ya know, instead of typing a whole bunch of the same words that I did in another post, there are a couple of things about that nutrient regiment, just by looking at your list that you use, that I don't like. This dude has a pretty entertaining grow thread going on, and I hopped in for a post to talk about some issues I think are important in your situation:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6361327&postcount=315

I recommend clicking on the thread title in the upper right corner, when you have time, as it is an entertaining thread by an entertaining individual.

The important part for your situation, IMO, is where I talked about nutrients like Cal/Mag and proper pH ranges and pH Up and Down. That was because I read the manual that came with your grow box, and it had this in it:

If pH reads above 6.2 you will need to add pH down. Add a few drops at a time until pH reads 5.6 ... If pH reads below 5.6 you will need to add pH up. Add a few drops at a time until pH reads 5.6

First and foremost, NEVER add straight pH Up or Down to your res without first diluting it, as that manual suggests. It fucks up yer res, as it precipitates out some of the solution. And NEVER add both pH Up and Down to the same res. If you have gone too far, oh well, ya fucked up yer res, beyond salvage, and need to dump it.

Not saying you do, but now that it looks like we have potentially identified one of the symptoms, like an apparent P deficiency, we need to find out why it is happening. I've done plenty of fuckin' up of reservoirs, to the point of causing various nutrient def symptoms, so I'm trying to get at your actual process of how you mix up and maintain your res, as well as what is in it. It's not rocket science, but you are working with a chemical solution, so what you put in there and in what order can fuck up yer solution before it ever leaves your mixing tub.

Things like making sure you add your micro nutrients first. ALWAYS. It is another thing that not doing can lead to precipitating out nutes and causing major pH stress in the root zone.

The final caveat on the pH of 5.6. As I noted in that post concerning individual farmers having to mix and max a special 'formula', to get the plants to do okay in that range. But even then, there are usually slight nutritional disorders/imbalances visible. And the caveat is that I have seen a couple mfgs advertise that pH, and they are geared towards MJ gorwers. In those cases, their shit will probably not work so hot in the low 5's in addition to having to use something to drop it down there.

Sweet Lady Jane in hydro likes the low 5's. And the mid 5's. And all the way up to the very low 6's. The roots exchange the elements at different rates at different pH levels.

Now all of dat shit being said, in addition to getting a good look at your roots, can you provide some info on how you are using pH Up and Down (like both in the same res, diluted/undiluted, etc), 'cause that is one way I have personally introduced a P def in a garden, years ago, before I knew better.

That grow box is pretty sweet. I have my own preferences on nutrients, though. One other thing, is that whichever way you proceed from here, a good flush with something like Clearex will be beneficial to recovery.

Oh yea, are you using RO or tap water? If tap, what is the starting pH and ppm. Maybe you said and I missed it.

A little disjointed and long, but the gist of it being suspecting a jacked up nutrient solution as a major contributing factor. I didn't list the question neatly this time, I buried them in a bunch 'o words, lol. Let me know if none of what I am asking about or getting at doesn't make sense.
 
R

Rookiegrower

Member
Hey Smith,

Don't worry about being wordy, I really appreciate the time spent to help.

I will answer all the questions and then shoot some pics as well.

1.) The water I use is: Gerber Mixing Water (distilled with mag and cal), starts at PH 7.1

2.) I never ever ever put PH up and PH down in the same reservior. In fact, I never use PH up ever.

3.) I have never mixed my micro nutrients first so I will certainly do that for now on. I always mixed "Common" in first because it mentioned that in the mixing instructions. Of course none of the micronutrients are in the mixing instructions.

4.) The plants looking droopy was definitely overwatering because it took care of itself when I didn't water them today.

5.) PPM in the reservoir is 480.

6.) I definitely use straight PH down in my Rez :-/
Now that I know it is a bad idea, I will make sure I don't. The only saving grace is that I have a water chiller installed with a 500 gph pump in the res so there is good water flow in there so it should mix quite quickly.

7.) I'm glad to hear you are into the geek box style growing. That is kind of what got me into it, I saw endless opportunities to make the boxes better. So far I have made mods to the reservior with a water chiller, I can raise and lower the reservoir in 2" increments to keep lights at optimal distance, I disconnected the CO2 from the internal timer and hooked it up to a plug. Now I plug the CO2 relay into a AutoPilot Greenhouse Master Controller which has a remote Temp/Humidity/CO2 sensor which I installed in the Flowering Chamber. The CO2 is now injected based on the fuzy-logic sensors' ppm reading, which is customizeable; I put a 12,500 BTU A/C Heater combo behind the box which makes controlling the temp in the box possible (needs a little work, VegChamber is colder than FlowerChamber which is backwards); Added battery back up to the box for short power outages although, as I understand it, I can add a new voltage regulator to the UPS and hook up more batteries. Ultimately, I would like to have a two hour back up for bad power outages; added three La Crosse TX60U-IT sensors to each chamber Veg Chamber (Bloombox), Flowering Chamber (Bloombox) and Mother Ship. These sensors have Air Temp, Humidity and Water Temp, they are also Wifi enabled so you can use an app on your phone to check on the environment of any chamber from anywhere in the world. You can also set parameters for each environmental condition in each chamber so that it will text you when something is out of range.

If I spend any more money on this thing right now my wife will castrate me, so I'm going to see where this takes me for now. I still have some tweaks I can do to dial temp and humidity in that won't cost me much money. I have another thread on ICMAG called "BC Northern Lights - Bloombox and Mothership 2", where I am posting pics of the mods as I get a chance.

Thanks again for the help, I'll take a few pics of roots and post them on the next post.
 
R

Rookiegrower

Member
I was doing some searching online for pictures that were similar to mine and I saw someone who had wind burn on some of the leaves, they looked very similar. Not an answer for the purple stems but I did have the fan blowing on the really damaged plant more than the others. I have moved the stream of air above the plants now, it still moves the plants around, just indirectly now.
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

Member
The water I use is: Gerber Mixing Water (distilled with mag and cal), starts at PH 7.1

Before I go on, is this the Gerber Baby food purified water you are talking about? I know yer in a hurry, since this is a quickly occurring. I'll post more soon - I'm multi-tasking while posting today.
 
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