DOOMED GROW, PLEASE HELP!

[ornot2p]

hey yall!

Id love some help with my indoor grow.

These plants were perfectly healthy during veg stage (200W T8 HO). As soon as I put them into flowering (400W HPS), like just 2 days after, leaves start to show some chlorosis. They will eventually go brown and die. Plants are a bit soft, leaves become somehow delicate.

Ive already tried to foliar feed K, P, Chelated Iron and Kelp Extract without any luck. I use soil and feed them organic tea, bone meal, fish meal and dolomite lime. None of these amendments showed any effect so far.

This is not the first time it has happened, last year I f**d a whole crop just like this.

PLEASE HELP!!!

 

[ornot2p]

beginning phase

beginning phase

This is a bit earlier than the previous pics. Ive been scraping the whole web after a clue..

So far Ive been suspecting of cal/mag, iron or a general ph fu*k up. Im almost ruling these all out since foliar feeding had no effect whatsoever.

 

[sourpuss]

Ill take a guess, u prob had them over watered and nute deficient in some way, im thinking cal mag, during veg. I find over water leads to weak stems and leaves.

Def showed up as u went into flower. As the def reared its ugly head u hit it with everything u got in a foliar. Id take it easy 9n the supplements add cal mag to the base nutes and flush it first. Think it may b ok to make it to the end...

Did u flush salts every couple weeks? Ur prob right about ph.

Add more info for better help, from these guys... im still noobish....

 

[sourpuss]

Actually the yrllow vein thing is a obvious sign. Use the search...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day O2p

Check your roots .

The dark look of the lower leaves and the yellowing up top make me suspect a root problem .
Some thing that makes the leaves look like nitrogen over feeding . And then turns to a lock out / non up take .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[lost in a sea]

i don't think cal/mag.. but you have a lock out of a couple elements, one could be potassium made worse by giving them too much cal/mag since magnesium is an antagonist for potassium.. there could also be pH issue which has been made worse by the substrate being wetter than it should be.

what i would do is let the medium dry out so the toxicity of certain elements that maybe causing trouble is lessened, then just give them enough pH 6-6.5 plain water to flush out the bottom enough to test the pH, if it is off from what it should be flush through three gallons for every gal of soil until it is right.. then i would use a rich organic tea about 5-7 days later to replace the bacteria/fungi in the soil and get them eating.

joe fresh's sick plant thread is really useful and packed full of knowledge

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231387

the extra photons from the flower light probably exacerbated the lock out by changing what and how much of certain elements the plants were eating..

 

[intotheunknown]

Provide more information about your soil.
How much of what and how often are you "feeding"?

Providing good information is the first step for help.

 

[silver hawaiian]

My gut (and recent experience) tells me overwatering & likely resulting wonkiness.

How hefty do your containers feel? How large are the containers? How often have you been watering? If you jab your finger down into the soil, is it moist throughout, from top of soil to your fingertip?

 

[RetroGrow]

Broad mites, or root aphids, IMO. Pull a plant and examine roots carefully with a loupe for root aphids. To check for broad or cyclamen mites or Russett mites, you must examine the undersides of leaves with a 100X microscope. Cut a couple of affected leaves and put them under a scope.
I doubt it's over watering, since they were fine in veg, unless you increased watering for some reason in flower.
Looks lie a pest problem to me.

 

[vapor]

how much calcium are you using?

 

[ornot2p]

MORE INFO AN ANSWERS thank yall for the advice!

MORE INFO AN ANSWERS thank yall for the advice!

thank yall fot the info! this is really valuable!

HERE IS A BIT MORE ABOUT MY SETUP

VEG (200W T8 HO mini outdoor greenhouse)
i root the clones in vermiculite cups. then i transplant them into 1L pots with a mix of about 40% coco, 40% worm castings and 20% vermiculite. they are fed with a mix of water from the fish tank and compost tea. before going to the flowering room they go to the final pot 8 or 10L.

FLOWER (400W or 600W HPS temps between 24ºC and 30ºC and moisture between 60% and 80%)

*IMPORTANT*
the flowering room is in the garage. sometimes i feel it might be too moist and i have even thought of some sort of infestation/disease due to the climate in the flowering room. the curious thing is that plants do well under the fluoros T8 inside the garage as well. anyway, they usually get better when they go back outdoors. it is also strange that this same problem has happened to other setups as well i.e hydro DWC and aquaponics*

Ive been setting up a little drip watering system and indeed that caused some overwatering recently. i have already cut the pump so its on the process of drying the soil. some algae has built up on top of the vermiculite.

@sourpuss
Did u flush salts every couple weeks? Ur prob right about ph.
—no flushing, straight into flower after some transplanting to 8L container.

@elmerbud
The dark look of the lower leaves and the yellowing up top make me suspect a root problem. Some thing that makes the leaves look like nitrogen over feeding. And then turns to a lock out / non up take.
—maybe too much rich tea?

@lost in a sea
what i would do is let the medium dry out so the toxicity of certain elements that maybe causing trouble is lessened, then just give them enough pH 6-6.5 plain water to flush out the bottom enough to test the pH...
—im on the process of fixing the ph. ive been testing with ph strips and getting 7.0, but just got myself an eletronic tester.

@intotheunknown and silver hawaiian
I feed some organic tea i brew myself with compost, fish extract, kelp extract and micros. i 'feed' it every 2-3 days, but i accidentally overwatered them implementing a dripline.

@RetroGrow
Broad mites, or root aphids, IMO. Pull a plant and examine roots carefully with a loupe for root aphids...
I doubt it's over watering, since they were fine in veg, unless you increased watering for some reason in flower...Looks lie a pest problem to me.
—ive always suspected of pest problems, since it gets better when out of the garage. but it happens too fast after going into flowering and improves outdoors. also, veg plants do fine indoors too.

@vapor
how much calcium are you using?
—about 2tbsp per gallon of soil

well, thats about what i can say. I really appreciate any other thoughts! sorry if ive missed anything.

 

[sourpuss]

Yeah fish tank compost tea. Sounds cool, over my head.....

 

[ornot2p]

its basically water from a 1000L tilapia fish tank that i hooked to an aquaponics system. if the fish are doing great i know the water is about right. its basically the water youd get from a pond, with supposedly nice stuff and somehow balanced. then the compost tea is basic tea brewing with an air stone blowing air and some extracts.

 

[ornot2p]

no one went for the iron def? that was my best guess so far...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day O2P

The part where you say the environment is damp is the clue .
I have just spent a few months diagnosing my garden which looked very similar to yours .
Some kind of mold or fungi at work is my call . Esp if you don`t see any pests .

I had a root disease . The same over fed look,followed by yellowing looking like Cal Mag def . And burnt tips on the new growth .

Check the roots . The plants grow kinda ok in vegg .Other than looking over dosed on N . Even though I was feeding very low doses of nutes .
But when pushed to flower they get sickly .

@ Retro

I tried Aspirin . I tried H2O2 didn`t solve the problem .

Thanks for sharin

EB

 

[vapor]

no one went for the iron def? that was my best guess so far...

that is certainly what it look like to me. so why is the question/

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

i found this: Fusarium damage is first evidenced by its affect on leaves and stems in the form of small dark spots on the leaves closest to the soil. They rapidly turn yellow-brown, leaf tips curl upward and the wilting damage is set in motion. Leaves will decline but not drop. Stems collapse. This is called Fusarium wilt and is a signal that the blight Fusarium causes has already begun.
also, Wikipedia has a good article on it. not sure of the accuracy but it sounds like what's going on. I hope this helps you!

 

[ornot2p]

yeah, @vapor, it def LOOKS LIKE iron def, the question is then why with different growing methods and chelated iron addition the problem is still manifesting itself? wouldnt it show any improvement after the addition of iron? what would you do to remedy this? foliar feed?

regarding the suggestion of a disease at work, it might indeed, but as i said, it would have had contaminated before going into flowering, and started acting very fast after putting them indoors. and then what doesnt quite add up to me is why it will get better so soon after going back outdoors. wouldnt a disease problem keep on going?

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day O2P

I agree with Double DD`s Nugs .
Root disease is my call . The yellow leaves turning up at the tips ,that don`t fall off is one sign . The look of cal mag def as well .
Also not drinking water .

Once in the xylem, the mycelium remains exclusively in the xylem vessels and produce microconidia (asexual spores).[9] The microconidia are able to enter into the sap stream and are transported upward. Where the flow of the sap stops the microconidia germinate. Eventually the spores and the mycelia clog the vascular vessels, which prevents the plant from up-taking and translocating nutrients. In the end the plant transpires more than it can transport, the stomata close, the leaves wilt, and the plant dies. After the plant dies the fungus invades all tissues, sporulates, and continues to infect neighboring plants.

My plants recovered when transplanted fresh soil indoor or out . Coco or perlite the problem continued .
Out doors they showed improvement in a cpl of days and flowered out without drama . Indoors in coco or perlite they yellowed off from the bottoms and eventually died .

When i explained the symptoms to the hydro shop man he told me I have a root pathogen . And treat with systemic fungicide then make cuts .

Thanks for sharin

EB

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

the sun has UVC light which is a germicidal band of UV light which may be why they're getting better outside. I have read that foliar spraying iron is a great way to fix a def. so if that isn't working, I would try something else. fusarium will cause a dark streak inside the main vein of the stalk. you could always try breaking off one of the infected stalks to check the center inside to see if it's dark.