Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[nr nodes]

When I make yield comparisons, it's assumed the grower is fully competent, or even better a professional. Top shelf quality goes without saying.

GPW aside, at least 2 units per the space filled by 1000 watts (or equivalent) is the absolute minimum for me to take anything seriously. 2.5 with decent strains shouldn't be that difficult and many of us are pushing 3 these days, or even more with large tree setups.

For those confined to smaller spaces like cabinets or tents, other considerations take precedent anyway.

 

[nr nodes]

Stumbled across these last night-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Philips...711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338ecb7d87

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Philips...123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338ecb7f23

Very good price, particularly for the 860's. both are open fixture rated, vertical only for the 860. Mogul base for MH magnetic ballasts.

I have no commercial interest in this.

That is a screaming deal. Someone qualified should set up a room full either bare vert or in OG hoods and journal it for us. If not for just investing in electronic ballasts I would!

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

It has been a while since I poked around in here and I come to find out my beloved 400W CMH is out of production. Drat and curses!

So I have been catching up (at page 365) and thinking about replacing my three HPS mag ballasts and going with three 315 electronics so I have been doing some shopping and decided to look for the CDM400S51/v/4K/ALTO and see what was still available and I found them for $40 to $100 per bulb. And then I clicked on a google sponsored link to ebay which I usually don't due but I am glad I did. The seller had a lot of 9 of the 400W CMH bulbs for $177 including shipping. That should hold me over for at least three years and by then the 315 setup should be cheap. Thanks for all the info guys it really helps.

 

[Jhhnn]

It has been a while since I poked around in here and I come to find out my beloved 400W CMH is out of production. Drat and curses!

So I have been catching up (at page 365) and thinking about replacing my three HPS mag ballasts and going with three 315 electronics so I have been doing some shopping and decided to look for the CDM400S51/v/4K/ALTO and see what was still available and I found them for $40 to $100 per bulb. And then I clicked on a google sponsored link to ebay which I usually don't due but I am glad I did. The seller had a lot of 9 of the 400W CMH bulbs for $177 including shipping. That should hold me over for at least three years and by then the 315 setup should be cheap. Thanks for all the info guys it really helps.

Excellent deal for you. The 330's are the direct replacement for the 400's, just drawing less power & putting out somewhat less light. Neither have been marketed as Ag lamps but rather as replacements for standard 400w MH lamps. In that, I suspect that the 400's weren't good sellers because of the price, so Philips sweetened the deal for industrial buyers with "energy savings", introducing the 330's. It's the same with the 860's.

 

[Drek]

Energy consumption, imo, is the main driving force behind Philip's current tech lineup. Commercial and industrial power usage is far more of an important issue, than us little pot growers.

Not that we don't have our place too.

@Cottonmouth

Nice deal! I purchased a bunch of Retro's as well off Evilbay. I think I got 6 horizontals and 3 verticals. Enough for a long time...

I estimate my usage at ~ 3600hrs per year. Best case scenario: Each HOR bulb is good for ~ 15k hours; the Vert's being ~ 20k hours.
Let's make it easy and say 9 bulbs at (15k hrs) equates to a rough lifetime estimate of 135,000 total hours.

135,000 total hrs / 3600 hrs per annum, equates to a whopping 37 years total usage time, If I keep things as they are.

I've considered setting up another 400 as veg only, so that would cut the figure down to half that. We'll see.

 

[rives]

There are more of the T9 315w 930 lamps on eBay if anyone is interested. These aren't quite the deal that the last ones were, the seller is charging for shipping but says that they will make adjustments to the shipping cost for multiple lamps.

Remember, these are the single-envelope lamps and require an enclosed fixture.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-MAS...6124598?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#shpCntId

 

[LargePrime]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Gar...854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338dede39e

Lamp, ballast, and socket for 175. t9, so the usual warnings.

 

[rives]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Gar...854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338dede39e

Lamp, ballast, and socket for 175. t9, so the usual warnings.

I've been seeing those on there for a while now - even the overall fixture looks like it might be pretty interesting with just the addition of a make-up box to attach a cord to. It would be interesting to know what kind of a footprint that reflector would generate at close range.

 

[Firebrand]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Gar...854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338dede39e

Lamp, ballast, and socket for 175. t9, so the usual warnings.

Shipping:
$58.35 Standard Shipping

 

[rives]

Shipping:
$58.35 Standard Shipping

So it's about $235 total. Checked the prices on these components? That will be a package about 2' x 3' x 1' and weigh about 30-40 lbs or so - I don't think that they are making much on shipping.

 

[smile]

So it's about $235 total.

Goes to show a little about the profit margins dpapillon and the other CMH light manufacturers are working with.

I believe the CMH grow light companies could charge less if they wanted to - different designs and economies of scale not withstanding.

 

[rives]

Goes to show a little about the profit margins dpapillon and the other CMH light manufacturers are working with.

I believe the CMH grow light companies could charge less if they wanted to - different designs and economies of scale not withstanding.

You can't really compare the cost of new gear to surplus equipment that has gone through liquidators and wound up on eBay.

I priced the Philips ballasts out a few years ago when I first started chasing the CDM stuff, and an electrical supply house that I've used for 25+ years at a great discount rate was going to have to charge almost $400 a ballast. It's gotten quite a bit better since, but as far as I know, Advanced Tech Lighting has the best prices around for the ballasts and they are still pushing the hell out of $200.

 

[HunterJ]

If you're talking about the 315w ballast the cheapest is from China. USD80 a piece for 4 plus shipping. MOQ is 4. The Philips bulb (315w Master Color Elite) is also available from china but I only found the one supplier and they haven't got back to me in two days.

For ballasts Welthink.com / http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/315W-CMH-CDM-electronic-ballast-for_1560753029.html --- for bulbs it's http://www.chang-ming-dianqi.com / http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Philips-metal-halide-bulbs-Elite-CDM_686603753.html

Due to RIVES and others input here, and produce, I was going to give this 315w a go but its rarity, where I am, and this thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257559 (read through) changed my mind. For an all MH grow, even with supplemental HPS in bloom, the gear is already widely available and I can get it cheap/er from China.

 

[DrFever]

Pretty amazing.

www.directupload.net/down/d/3554/6tu4sjvl_pdf.htm

One begins to wonder how bias this really is and how truthful???? really temps 85 ?? Anything past 87 degrees and they don't conduct photosynthesis as well as they are trying to re-coup from the heat they didn't enjoy
So with that being said 85 one would think heat stress would kick in either way its close Right???? i do not see in cost sheet AC expense cause if he is mentioning outside temps day and night then with even 75 - 85 coming in and heat in room would likely still be 85 + in room probably more closer to 90
Hey Rives wondering how these would work placing them in each corner of A grow room

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Ford-92-96-B...ccessories&hash=item35d5a56a65&vxp=mtr&_uhb=1

 

[rives]

HunterJ, I was referring to Philips-manufactured ballasts like the one in the eBay fixture. It's possible that Chinese gear is comparable, but that has never been my experience. If I recall correctly, a couple of years ago Welthink had some early failure issues with their LED fixtures but stood behind them. There are a number of us who have found the 315w CDM lamps to work better than either straight MH or CMH.

Good luck and keep us posted about your results, please.

 

[HunterJ]

@rives I saw earlier in thread you use/make LED's. While searching Ch for stuff I was introduced to Dennis, owner (I believe) of this http://www.lumenhort.com/ who seems to know his stuff and has been very helpful. I'm on the technical curve and a ways to go yet so can't properly engage him.

I haven't mentioned this forum or Canna but he has been to Holland and they manufacture and supply lighting for commercial horticulture. Thought the LED in particular might interest you and others.

He would recognize my handle.

 

[rives]

www.directupload.net/down/d/3554/6tu4sjvl_pdf.htm

One begins to wonder how bias this really is and how truthful???? really temps 85 ?? Anything past 87 degrees and they don't conduct photosynthesis as well as they are trying to re-coup from the heat they didn't enjoy
So with that being said 85 one would think heat stress would kick in either way its close Right???? i do not see in cost sheet AC expense cause if he is mentioning outside temps day and night then with even 75 - 85 coming in and heat in room would likely still be 85 + in room probably more closer to 90
Hey Rives wondering how these would work placing them in each corner of A grow room

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Ford-92-96-B...ccessories&hash=item35d5a56a65&vxp=mtr&_uhb=1

It's always possible that information from a vendor is bullshit, but I've had numerous conversations with the owner of Cycloptics and he seems like a pretty straight-up guy.

The temperature thing is hard to get a handle on for me. 85 is a pretty cool day outside in a lot of pot-growing areas. I know that OldMac and a number of LED growers swear by running at 85, and I've never had a problem with it. I think that this is one big difference between HPS and either LED or MH/CMH/CDM - the HPS lamps "cast" IR and heat the surface of anything that they light up, whereas the other technologies do not. So, 85 ambient under HPS is going to be substantially different at the leaf than with the other technologies.

No idea how those would work, Doc. It would be kind of an expensive experiment by the time you bought the lights and added power supplies, though.

 

[HunterJ]

I understand your caution re China product. Where I am local costs are ridiculously high which makes taking a chance on China appealing. The locals get theirs from China anyway.

HunterJ, I was referring to Philips-manufactured ballasts like the one in the eBay fixture. It's possible that Chinese gear is comparable, but that has never been my experience. If I recall correctly, a couple of years ago Welthink had some early failure issues with their LED fixtures but stood behind them. There are a number of us who have found the 315w CDM lamps to work better than either straight MH or CMH.

Good luck and keep us posted about your results, please.

 

[Drek]

A CDM lamp is a CMH lamp.

I can't see there being much difference between the two other than availability and efficiency, in which the CDM would be better.

Philips Metal halides (and a few others) in general @ 3-4k will be fairly close if not identical in terms of their PAR performance and intensity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp

 

[rives]

Yes, a CDM lamp is a subset of the CMH lamps. However, they have different spectra and lumens/watt. Growers who have used both the 400w CMH and the 315w CDM have commented on a significant difference in performance.