Air pump and Stone necessary?

[philbu]

Hi,

I expect the answer is yes, but maybe some opinions or alternatives. I have 18 plants in soil. I don't mind watering by hand right now. I mix nutes and ph in a 2 gallon bucket because it's easier to wrap my head around as a beginner. I pull the water from a 32 gallon reservoir.
I guess it doesn't matter how I do it, the water still needs to be oxygenated, right? If so, would a pump rated for 40 gal and an 8 inch air stone work? What's the best size for an air stone that would sit at the bottom of a trashcan reservoir?

Thanks much!

phil

 

[Rolldaddy]

Why a 32 gal Rez for 18 ladies under t5's?

 

[RonSmooth]

Why a rez at all?

The airstones are to aerate the water so it doesn't get stagnant or develop anaerobic conditions.

Cold water can hold more dissolved oxygen than warm water. Hydroponic growers maintain warm water temps as the water/nutrient solution is being directly fed to the roots. The side-effect is the environment becomes ripe for all sorts of nasty slimes and fungi.

 

[rangergord]

Not required in soil but it does help soil grown plants to grow more vigorously IMHO. Overwatering is a common problem and aeration of your water helps prevent roots from drowning.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Not required in soil but it does help soil grown plants to grow more vigorously IMHO. Overwatering is a common problem and aeration of your water helps prevent roots from drowning.

I agree I like to keep water full of oxygen for the plants benefit. Also having reservoirs allow you to treat and adjust a larger volume of water at a time.

 

[philbu]

Why a 32 gal Rez for 18 ladies under t5's?

Had a Rubbermaid handy and I could put a lot of water in it. : ) I top it off each time I water and it has time to lose the chlorine between waterings. These are going to be flipped in about a week, btw.

thnx

 

[philbu]

Why a rez at all?

The airstones are to aerate the water so it doesn't get stagnant or develop anaerobic conditions.

Cold water can hold more dissolved oxygen than warm water. Hydroponic growers maintain warm water temps as the water/nutrient solution is being directly fed to the roots. The side-effect is the environment becomes ripe for all sorts of nasty slimes and fungi.

"rez" - maybe bad terminology on my part, it's just a big rubber trash can full of water. Something I can dip my bucket into.

 

[philbu]

Not required in soil but it does help soil grown plants to grow more vigorously IMHO. Overwatering is a common problem and aeration of your water helps prevent roots from drowning.

That's my understanding.

I agree I like to keep water full of oxygen for the plants benefit. Also having reservoirs allow you to treat and adjust a larger volume of water at a time.

and that would be my next step, whether this round or a next, bigger round - treating and adjusting a larger volume at a time.

 

[philbu]

so, the question is, can one 2 inch (or 4 inch) round stone do the job or will a 10 inch long bar manage the volume better? Maybe I'll just get one of those single Micro-Pore diffusers and leave it at that.

thanks, all for your suggestions. : )

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

so, the question is, can one 2 inch (or 4 inch) round stone do the job or will a 10 inch long bar manage the volume better? Maybe I'll just get one of those single Micro-Pore diffusers and leave it at that.

thanks, all for your suggestions. : )

I like the ten inch air stones, they have a good spread and seem to take longer to clog with minerals than smaller air stones.

 

[vostok]

The 02 in the water I give my plants gets to the plant the moment the water hits the soil with the plant, to answer your question Grower and Plants don't give a hoot ..!

 

[RonSmooth]

Plants do not get oxygen from the water. They "breathe" CO2 and produce oxygen as a bi-product of photosynthesis. Since the plant has no use for it, the oxygen is then expelled through the leaves.

 

[RetroGrow]

Plants do not get oxygen from the water. They "breathe" CO2 and produce oxygen as a bi-product of photosynthesis. Since the plant has no use for it, the oxygen is then expelled through the leaves.

Actually, plants DO get oxygen from water. And plants DO have use for oxygen. Oxygen is present in every plant cell. Plants "breathe" CO2 in the daytime, and give off oxygen. This process is reversed at night. The roots can absorb oxygen both from air pockets in a soil medium, and from dissolved oxygen in the water. Otherwise, hydroponics wouldn't work. Fresh water brings fresh oxygen to the roots. Growing in Hempy buckets in coco, a hydroponic medium and system, one can easily see the results from frequent watering, which brings freshly oxygenated water to the roots. This explains the explosive growth.
I don't know where you got the idea that plants have no use for oxygen, but that is just wrong.

 

[rangergord]

Hydroponics is all about dissolved oxygen levels in the water. Soiless mix is a hydroponic medium. Aeration works. Roots must have oxygen to grow or they die. I use a rain barrel as a pre reservoir. I fill it with rain water or snow until I need it for my flood and drain rez. No need for an RO unit with naturally distilled water.

 

[RonSmooth]

Actually, plants DO get oxygen from water. And plants DO have use for oxygen. Oxygen is present in every plant cell. Plants "breathe" CO2 in the daytime, and give off oxygen. This process is reversed at night. The roots can absorb oxygen both from air pockets in a soil medium, and from dissolved oxygen in the water. Otherwise, hydroponics wouldn't work. Fresh water brings fresh oxygen to the roots. Growing in Hempy buckets in coco, a hydroponic medium and system, one can easily see the results from frequent watering, which brings freshly oxygenated water to the roots. This explains the explosive growth.
I don't know where you got the idea that plants have no use for oxygen, but that is just wrong.

Why would the roots need to absorb oxygen?

The plant disregards the oxygen produced during photosynthesis. That is why it is found in the plant at all.

Plants take in CO2, break off that carbon atom and toss the waste product. Oxygen. It would be contradictory to then have to waste energy reabsorbing it. Evolution would have quickly weeded out this type of inefficiency a long time ago.


Water needs dissolved oxygen so it doesn't get stagnant and anaerobic.

It takes a while for dissolved oxygen in water to be completely depleted.

The warmer the water, the less o2 it can hold. Hydroponic generally use warmer water. The air stones to keep the nutrient solution mixed and to add dissolved o2. Again, this is to prevent the growth of anaerobic bacteria and not to supply the roots with O2.

It is the anaerobic bacteria in the water that ruin the media (whatever it is) . With the media compromised, the plant cannot perform biological functions properly and eventually the system fails aka the plant dies.

I would be happy to reconsider my position provided sufficient evidence to the contrary were presented.

 

[RetroGrow]

Plants take in CO2, break off that carbon atom and toss the waste product. Oxygen. It would be contradictory to then have to waste energy reabsorbing it. Evolution would have quickly weeded out this type of inefficiency a long time ago.

Plants take in CO2 in the DAYTIME, or when the lights are on. The process is reversed at night, or when lights are off, when the plant takes in oxygen, and gives off CO2. Roots most definitely use oxygen, both dissolved in water and in the air pockets in the soil. As stated, oxygen is contained in EVERY plant cell. You need to do some Googling.

 

[philbu]

Yes, true, oxygenated water is poison to anaerobic bacteria.

Regarding plant use of the same, hmmm:
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2860
http://www.hightimes.com/read/insiders-grow-co2-and-o2-cannabis-production

 

[philbu]

I like the ten inch air stones, they have a good spread and seem to take longer to clog with minerals than smaller air stones.

Thanks, I guess "spread" was what I was getting at. On the face of it, it does seem logical that the larger the area of bubble source the more evenly the oxygen is distributed throughout the container. But, water is a funny medium and we don't have Dr Science here to describe a model for oxygen distribution. I'll place my bet on a 10" long micro pore diffuser. : )

 

[RetroGrow]

Yes, true, oxygenated water is poison to anaerobic bacteria.

Regarding plant use of the same, hmmm:
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2860
http://www.hightimes.com/read/insiders-grow-co2-and-o2-cannabis-production

Correct. That is one reason why plants in hydroponics require a fresh water supply. The plants use up the dissolved oxygen in the water, which they take up by their roots. Without fresh water, the oxygen gets used up and anaerobic bacteria proliferate. This is what causes root rot. Plants use oxygen in two ways: they "breathe" it in @ night, and they take it in through their roots from the soil, or in hydroponics, from the dissolved oxygen in the water. Plants cannot function without oxygen.
Oddly, I was at that first link you posted last night. Good links.
From the High Times article, for Ron Smoothe:
" But that's one half of the missing equation. Plants live in two different worlds at the same time -- while the green portion of the plant is processing CO2 for energy to grow with light, the lower portion is taking in water and nutrients to balance the equation. Having higher DO (dissolved oxygen) and good ambient O2 levels at the roots do for the plant what CO2 does for the upper portions: it increases growth rates and yields; plants perform at a higher metabolic rate of activity.

Adding CO2 into a relatively healthy growing set-up can typically increase dry harvest weights from 10-25% and shave time off of both the veg and bloom period, creating the opportunity for more harvests per year. Growers also note that when their plants are amped up with higher CO2 levels, insects tend to surface less often and aren't able to gain a foothold to infest as readily. Normal atmospheric CO2 levels are usually around 500 PPM (parts per million), increasing to 800-1800 PPM, especially during veg and peak flowering can make a big difference.

However, you can turbocharge your gains in growth rates and yield potential when you add more O2 at the roots as part of the equation.
The way most growing soils and root systems get their burst of O2 is when watering occurs, or in the case of hydroponics, when a steady flow of nutrient solution washes through the roots.

Following this charge of O2 levels after application, the levels quickly become depleted. From there it is the ambient O2 levels that are helping water and nutrient absorption, and can be be in short supply; slowing progress for growth. Ambient oxygen for roots occurs in the macro and micro pore spaces directly around the roots and in the growing medium.

When there is more air available at the roots in both the solution and through ambient levels, you will see a surge of healthy growth; the difference can be quite noticeable. As a bonus, some growers find they can reduce their fertilizer strengths slightly because plants can take up water and minerals abundantly with increased oxygen levels in the root zone.
Typically, 16 PPM of dissolved oxygen is considered pretty good, and can be accomplished with lots of flow in your solution and some level of aeration.Double these levels can be achieved with specialized equipment. Saturated DO levels can also be used to effectively treat root diseases in hydroponic crops. It has also shown to make plants able to resist powdery mildew up top.

If you like to grow in soil, and don't mind watering more often for better production, simply adding some large sized perlite or grow stones your potting mix will help improve drainage and create more pore space. When roots dry out faster, it means watering more frequently to introduce a dose of dissolved oxygen for better growth and production."

 

[RonSmooth]

Retrogrow, I was 100% wrong and I will go have a slice of humble pie now. Thanks.