Taking Acid Daily: chronicling the adventure

[high life 45]

Sam and Infit I think dr. william courtney was refering to the amount that is actually absorbed vs the amount that is in the vape or dab or sift or what ever.

We all know that some gets left behind or trapped in the nooks and crannies of pipes, vapes etc.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sam can you please post some test results supporting/proving this. Your the first person that I have heard this from.

How about you post scientific references that the leaf and bud ratios are not the same? If you do I will find some that are correct on the subject for you.

All quantities aside, I would be more inclined to believe that a trichome is going to have a different profile than a leaf, and buds, being more covered in trichomes would therefore have a different profile than a leaf.

I am saying a trichome is a trichome the contents all have the same profile, the only difference is in the absolute amounts of trichomes found on leaves and flowers, the profiles do not alter they are the same in veg as they are in flowering. Except for with the Cannabinoid CBC It is produced more in juvenile plants then adults.
-SamS

I have personally juiced large amounts of cannabis for several weeks last year and not once did I get any sort of headchange one would associate with cannabis ingestion. I also have a seemingly low tolerance overall and have gone through peroids of time where barely singe two or three calyxes to get high.

You say large amounts? What is a large amount to you? Leaves, buds? What were the THC levels of the materials used? Wet or dry, fresh or old? If a few calyxes do get you high, did you eat or smoke them? I ask because if eaten they are THCA not THC. THCA eaten does not get most people high unless in really large amounts. Smoking will convert THCA to THC and you will get high if enought THC was smoked.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sam and Infit I think dr. william courtney was refering to the amount that is actually absorbed vs the amount that is in the vape or dab or sift or what ever.

We all know that some gets left behind or trapped in the nooks and crannies of pipes, vapes etc.

When smoked 10=20% of the THC gets destroyed or trapped in the pipe, vaporizors destroy much less. But vaporizors also make a one gram hit when smoked in a vape, fill one or two vape bags that take at least several breaths to smoke, so in fact the bong with less total THC delivered from the one gram hit, does get you higher then a one gram hit smoked in a vape unit in several breaths with slightly more THC in total. To each their own...
Some people like getting high, some people like being high, some people want nothing to do with it.....
None are wrong it is mostly personal preferences.
-SamS

 

[SativaBreather]

no need to juice buds, leaves are fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgEP9FdIzT8

http://www.collective-evolution.com...laces-40-medications-with-raw-cannabis-juice/

 

[high life 45]

Cmon Sam you cant share unless I have something, I thought I asked nicely. I have no horse in this race im just trying to gain a larger perspective/understanding.

To clarify I think most people are juicing vegging fan leaves with little to no trichomes.

Are you saying that a trichome and a fan leaf have the same cannabinoid profile?

I was of the understanding that a trichome and a fan leaf will not have the same profile. I heard this from an old hippie scientist who helped develop some hemp fiberboards for a company many moons ago. They were my first medical patient 10 years ago. They told me that cbds were found in greater concentrations in the leafs and would often take my trim and shake instead of the bud and that was their preferred smoke. The said it gave them more pain relief and always chose the leaf over the bud, so I imagined it was true for them since both were readily available.



My vernacular (not saying its correct or ultimate, but I think most will agree)
Bud/calyxes=covered in trichomes
leaf=no trichomes
sugar leaf=covered in trichomes.

I juiced large fresh leafs from my outdoor plants that were grown in a soil mix based off of CC's no till approach fed primarily water. I have no idea of the profiles of the leaf because I have no testing equipment readily available, but the bud from one of the plants has tested over 21% several times when grown indoors, never tested the outdoor grown.

I drank 8 oz of canna juice three times a day for at least a week solid, one of my patients has cancer and couldnt stand the idea of drinking something green even to save his life, so I showed them that it could be done.

I dont know how much thca was in the juice but never the less I felt any psychoactive change.

I would say that 24oz of canna juice in a 24 hour period is a large amount of juice. This was also diluted into at least two or more parts apple juice, or sometimes added to a raw smoothie. I will also add that I was eating a 100% raw diet and most people who would try to drink even a third of that would probably vomit or poop yourself. I have indeed shit myself from drinking a green juice, it was even more entertaining that I was surrounded by a bunch of hot girls and my mother at a raw food pot luck. Luckily nobody knew. Watch out for them green juices.

 

[Infinitesimal]

As far as I know they are just in the trichomes, Maybe I am wrong but I do not thinkk so. If they are found elase where it is in very very very small amounts.



If you are not getting high eating 1000mg decarboxylated THC then it is not decarboxylated THC or it is not 1000mg THC. Any extract made with heat or with heat used to remove solvents is mostly decarboxylated.



I am not sure if wet or dry fresh buds are more nasty to me, when I eat them, even baked in cookies, I can't stand either, they both give me gas and cannabis tasting burps I think from all the non glandular Cystolythic trichomes? I use a ghee and dry bud extract squeezed through a food grade nylon bag with a multi ton food press and I get all the goodies and no gas at all.
-SamS




I heard the 10mg dose also, but I asked a PHD that beleived that to try a 10mg pure THC vaporizor hit and they could not feel it. Later on we tried 25mg and it was easy to feel. I am sure different people need different doses to feel the THC, with 10mg I found that very few can.
-SamS

I made some ethanol extract recently the first batch was made with some trim from a strain of mine and the other batch from a friends OG kush trim... I decarbed it pretty fully (until I saw no more small Co2 bubbles forming) and I was titrating a pain killing dose for my father in combination with his prescription meds... with my strain his dose was .8g and the OG his dose was 1.8g... that seems like a lot to me... maybe high tolerance or low THC absorption in the gut runs in the family, lol

I don't like the taste of fresh or dried bud either and they just make the treats not enjoyable, I always have to choke them down. the cystolithic hairs just feel wrong in my mouth when I try to eat bud straight a tiny little .2 or something is all I've ever been able to tolerate... but strangely with this juicer at least the taste nor the hairs bother me.

so you just use the heat from the pressure to melt the ghee and trichomes together? what do you do with the ghee afterward?

I know that at the time I ate those two 500 mg treats my tolerance was the highest it's ever been, I was shocked that it didn't work, the dispensary workers were surprised when 1 didn't work and they were in total shock when 2 didn't work. but yea I don't know how much I trust the advertised potency of a lot of these edible companies but that brand is known for being one of the most potent... I keep trying, though it has been a while since I ate any edibles.

I hear you, and I always enjoy getting to learn a little something.


Infi

 

[Infinitesimal]

Cmon Sam you cant share unless I have something, I thought I asked nicely. I have no horse in this race im just trying to gain a larger perspective/understanding.

To clarify I think most people are juicing vegging fan leaves with little to no trichomes.

Are you saying that a trichome and a fan leaf have the same cannabinoid profile?

I was of the understanding that a trichome and a fan leaf will not have the same profile. I heard this from an old hippie scientist who helped develop some hemp fiberboards for a company many moons ago. They were my first medical patient 10 years ago. They told me that cbds were found in greater concentrations in the leafs and would often take my trim and shake instead of the bud and that was their preferred smoke. The said it gave them more pain relief and always chose the leaf over the bud, so I imagined it was true for them since both were readily available.



My vernacular (not saying its correct or ultimate, but I think most will agree)
Bud/calyxes=covered in trichomes
leaf=no trichomes
sugar leaf=covered in trichomes.

I juiced large fresh leafs from my outdoor plants that were grown in a soil mix based off of CC's no till approach fed primarily water. I have no idea of the profiles of the leaf because I have no testing equipment readily available, but the bud from one of the plants has tested over 21% several times when grown indoors, never tested the outdoor grown.

I drank 8 oz of canna juice three times a day for at least a week solid, one of my patients has cancer and couldnt stand the idea of drinking something green even to save his life, so I showed them that it could be done.

I dont know how much thca was in the juice but never the less I felt any psychoactive change.

I would say that 24oz of canna juice in a 24 hour period is a large amount of juice. This was also diluted into at least two or more parts apple juice, or sometimes added to a raw smoothie. I will also add that I was eating a 100% raw diet and most people who would try to drink even a third of that would probably vomit or poop yourself. I have indeed shit myself from drinking a green juice, it was even more entertaining that I was surrounded by a bunch of hot girls and my mother at a raw food pot luck. Luckily nobody knew. Watch out for them green juices.

what sam was saying by profile he means the THC/CBD ratio, while the bud and sugar trim have a much larger quantity of THC the ratio of THC/CBD should be the same.

as he says in his response to me, the chemicals necessary to make THC and CBD are not abundant in the plant tissues themselves but mostly only in the glandular trichomes so essentially he's saying the only THC and CBD from leaves are in the trichomes.... they are usually there in good strains just very small, sometime they are readily visible though

 

[Mister_D]

Looks like I have some research to do

 

[theJointedOne]

nice juicer, i got my ex the same one, she loves it

cool thread

 

[Payaso]

Ultimately quite fascinating, this could be condensed and clarified.

 

[G.O. Joe]

can the precursors and the enzymes necessary to produce cannabinoids be found outside of the trichomes, like in the tissues of the plant, or are they strictly limited to trichomes?

I don't think of this as an extraction... I know the cannabinoids are not being dissolved (assuming there are any cannabinoids in the juice, since I haven't had any tested) more like suspended... or maybe none make it to the juice, I guess that what we are here to learn... does this stuff work??? IDK we'll have to try and see

They are produced at the trichomes by the cells there. There are a few trichomes on root material even. Of course the cannabinoids do not change with the part of the plant or over time, this is a fixed genetic factor.

THCA is slightly more soluble in water than THC, but the green juice isn't the same as water and the trichomes aren't the same as THCA.

Even if the cannabinoids manage to not stick to the machine or the glass, there is still absorption into the bloodstream to consider. Urine or blood testing would be the only way to prove that there is some benefit to this process.

 

[mofeta]

In the '80s I grew with buddy of mine. He had a backyard with a big wooden fence in Tucson, AZ. We grew all sorts of killer Mexican plants. We would trim them into bushes in order to keep them shorter than the fence. It was really hard to keep up the pruning.

We would have to stand on step ladders, and would pinch/twist the apical meristems of the leaders off of the plant and throw them off the ground. Because of the way the long, skinny, kinda bunched up leaves looked, we called them "spiders". Sometimes we would pop a few spiders into our mouths and eat them. They were tender and easy to eat compared to a big old leathery fan leaf. We would get wrecked! Too many of them would lead to a full-blown trip w/visuals etc.

 

[high life 45]

Even if the cannabinoids manage to not stick to the machine or the glass, there is still absorption into the bloodstream to consider. Urine or blood testing would be the only way to prove that there is some benefit to this process.

[youtubeif]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-iU9QN0fEM[/youtubeif]
You should watch the video. I find it very apparent that there is "some" benefit to the process.

The girl was on over 40 medications, bedridden, cathaterized, sterilie, cervical cancer etc, now she has a kid and is mobile and off most meds.

The baby had inoperable brain tumors and was given a 10% chance of survival, after juicing the tumors started to shrink and the baby is now alive and well.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Maybe alfalfa, dandelions, wheat grass, or nothing at all would have worked just as well. That's why you need proof that there was at least some presence of cannabinoids in the blood, that would be the first step.

 

[high life 45]

Maybe alfalfa, dandelions, wheat grass, or nothing at all would have worked just as well. That's why you need proof that there was at least some presence of cannabinoids in the blood, that would be the first step.

I understand what your getting after, but I think the first step would actually be testing the juice. As more and more people are waking up to the fact that terpenes play a vital role in the effect of cannabinoids, I think it would be shortsighted to just test the blood for cannabinoids as the "first step".


I believe in the healing properties of fresh juice in general, and many cancer patients drink wheat grass juice with success. I just haven't heard of these kind of results before from simply adding one plants juice to your diet. I have heard of all kinds of miraculous transformations from complete diet changes, but never one plants juice.

IMO its clear that "doing nothing at all" would not have worked for Kristen Courtney, she was on so many medications.


My chem sour and casey jones yielded much more juice per leaf than the other 5 strains outside. The chem sour was much stronger in taste and rather overpowering at times.

Im gonna ask some friends if they can get some fresh juice tested by analytical360 next time they are around. I will probably have to give them some leafs in a cooler and have them juice it at home and then bring it to a360.
I have had my casey tested three times before, so I should be able to average the profile of the bud/trichomes between those three tests and compare it to a test of fresh leaf juice.

 

[Huel Perkins]

I didn't read much of this thread, instead I just decided to skip ahead and add my $0.02

I love the idea of consuming raw cannabis but i believe using a juicer is a very inefficient method of doing so.

The main problem is that cannabinoids (the actual medicine) are not water soluble and much of them can be lost due to getting stuck to the machine and fibers of the plant material when juicing, especially at room temperature. Instead of using a juicer machine you should use a blender to make a smoothie from fresh leaves, stems and buds. Start with a little of your favorite fresh cold fruit juice, and a combination of fresh and frozen fruits or vegetables and your fresh cannabis. Keeping the mixture cold by using frozen fruit will prevent cannabinoids from sticking to the blender. The better it tastes, the more effective it will actually be. The terpenes and flavonoids of the fruit will actually make the cannabinoids from the cannabis more effective. Another great addition to the smoothie is hemp seeds, they are extremely rich in fiber, protein, vitamins/minerals and most important omega fatty acids. These fatty acids are essential for our bodies own natural endocannabinoid production and cannot be produced by our body and therefore must be supplemented. Another huge bonus to smoothies is fiber, without enough fiber in your diet your body ma lack the ability to fully absorb all the vitamins, minerals and cannabinoids you're consuming.

 

[Gry]

Has to one of the neatest thread titles ever.

 

[Sadhu Sciences]

Whole plant extraction, whether decarboxylated or active, is the way to go. It depends what ailments/ symptoms you are trying to treat in first determining which form to use. Are you using it topically or ingesting it? Of what THC: CBD ratio is need for the treatment?

Is it true that higher CBD ratios are found around the leafy/woody parts of the plant, as well as the other compounds that create an overall effective medicine.

Testing needs to be done , correct. This can tell us what and how much of each cannabinoid is being metabolized , the patients threshold on mg dosage etc... Another place where we can find some efficacy in the medicine!

 

[RulaTone]

nice pictures Infinitesimal, pics thread is always better to follow.

Altough I am a bit skeptical on this kind of practice,

Whats the idea behind juicing raw plants?

-Getting low levels of acidic cannabinoids?
-Getting other natural occurring compounds in the plant tissue such as flavonoids, antocian etc?
-Getting a whole plant extract that includes all that you find in the raw material?

First hipothesis: I dont think cannabinoids levels can be that high in a juice, and there are many other extraction techniques to get a far richer extract if getting acidic cannabinoids is the target.

second hipothesis: Other compounds that might have a therapeutical effect contained in the plant tissue can be extracted juicing, but i am under the impression that there are many other vegetables that offer a wider variety of same compounds and in much higher concentrations. (tea, grapes, chocolate)
If i remember correct there are few non-cannabinoid compounds that are found only in cannabis (for example cannaflavin) but they are not greatly studied and it is not clear what therapeutic effect they may have. On the contrary flavonoids an others in fruits and vegetables are more studied and they have their own well documented effect.

Last hipothesis, target is to get cannabinoids and non-cannabinoids compound all in the same juice: well this can lead to a very hard task to know what you are ingesting, what is having an actual effect and what is not so it wont be an accurate testing, even if it works.

I dont want to discourage this kind of treatment, just my thoughts...

 

[RoadRash]

Daily acid - reminds me of a co-worker who took LSD acid every day for a year and a half.

Then later on I worked with him on electronics projects, he was doing circuit board lay-out. he had a remarkable ability to sit and concentrate and not fvck up. probably the best PC layout guys at an early wireless company.


anyway, I have one of those high-RPM juicers that I could use for this. It has great bearings and a unique high-RPM sound.

my juicer has wax in it because I used it for a little project that could fall into the category of stoned thinking. But it shouldn't be too hard to clean and it's a fantastic juicer.

I just drop in my fan leaves and get out a healthy juice ? I could manage that