Teaming with Nutrients by: Jeff Lowenfels - discussion

[FatherEarth]

He also suggest to harvest lichen from the north side of trees and add water soak overnight and add as a foliar. Azotobacter lives and works directly with lichen and the lichen feeds the tree in this way by fixing nitrogen....

 

[FatherEarth]

basically giving a list of ways to avoid buying the nitrogen fixing bacteria in that talk... I love those recordings

 

[milkyjoe]

The more I read about Carbonatite the more I like it. High activity clays, enzyme co factors, all of the important minerals, and what eles could you ask for in one materal.

My plants seem to like it to the tilth it adds to my mulch layer is awesome.

Timbuktu

What about radioactive materials. Apatite or however you spell that, has long been claimed to be dirty.

And what is a high energy clay exactly. Does that mean it contributes to soil EC or something else?

 

[Bennyweed1]

Man I have not come online enough and catch up on all the tech talk.

I've been growin' organically with recycled for sometime now but what the hell is ROLS?

I use to spend hours reading forums but after a while you just start seeing the same thing. Ignorance is bliss

Let me get this right, as stuff like this seem to come in waves like everything in society....ROLS is just some techy lingo for recycling soil?? I dont even want to spend time researching the term to see if I am right or wrong, I just read a comment that said no-till is the new internet craze, so please excuse me.

Does this mean I am getting old?.......damn I guess you really do learn something new everyday.....

 

[milkyjoe]

ROLS is just recycled organic living soil...you know, what farmers have been doing since time began. I think that designation was simply to separate them from the super soil, whatever the REV calls his stuff, veganamics or whatever that is, etc.

You are not old, you are actually ahead of this trend.

 

[milkyjoe]

Hey Vortex Power, do you have a working phone number for NDSC? It is in me brain now and needs an answer...wtf is high energy clay? Also I want to ask about radioactive stuff.

But i want some Biogenesis and pepzyme to...

So I got Intelligent Gardner...not sure I am ready to use ammonium phosphate but if my soil pH ever goes high ???

 

[VortexPower420]

Fatherearth posted it a couple of post back. I will PM it to you if you don't find it.

Here is a pdf on Clays.

http://www.borealagrominerals.com/uploads/2/2/1/4/2214955/fact_sheet_-_clays.pdf

I know it is a fact sheet from the company that sells the product, but it is not a sales pitch. It is well cited and correct from what other things I have read. The boreal website has a couple of links to PDFs I feel are informative. SOme are a trials for there product and they all have one paragraph on the bottom for the sales pitch but they are all well cited.

Timbuktu

 

[milkyjoe]

So I called Nutrient Density and ask them what "high energy" means. It means it is either: a) a paramagnetic material or b) produces above a certain reading on a radionics meter (not sure what I think about this one).

anyways...now you know.

i also ask them what numbers to use for carbonatite if I was balancing a soil...they said 30% Ca and don't worry about the other things...again, a big hmmmmm for me, you advertise it has P and K and micros, but don't worry about them...wtf. Scared me off.

edit...and when you look at this 20% Ca and they claim P can be supplied completely if you go 1000 lbs an acre on carbonatite...hmmmm. Still, it does seem interesting.

DOH...http://www.borealagrominerals.com/src-minerals.html

 

[habeeb]

^manganese seems to check out a little high there no?

 

[h.h.]

When TWM was released there wasn't a digital version offered - that didn't happen until the 2nd Edition was released but not really. When you would hit the TWM 2nd page at Amazon and if you selected the Kindle version you got a digital copy of TWM alright - the 1st Edition.

The only real difference was that a chapter was added in the 2nd Edition on mycorrhizal fungi with the rest left pretty much alone.

That does suck. Don't know if it has been updated. I kept the digital first edition.It's just nice to have it on the computer. It's a bit easier to reference.

I found much of TWN was a review of past studied material. Lack of groundbreaking material made it a bit of a struggle to read. Like reading a textbook.
With that, it was a much needed review. The material is condensed in an easy to understand manner. Unlike many textbooks, it wasn't full of useless filler material. After presenting a little bit of basic science, Lowenfels gets to the point. Everything is well tailored to the subject of plant nutrition. I'll probably end up reading it again. There's a lot of information all in one place.
I guess there may be some disappointment when it gets down to what to actually feed your plants. The section is somewhat limited. I felt though this section was merely giving examples. After a good study of the book, one should have the tools to formulate their own feeding program that meets their needs.
Even though it was a review, I'd throw it up there in the must read category for the hobbyist that wants to step his game up a notch or two. It really does bring everything all together.

 

[JohnathanDoe]

This is that kind of book that makes you instantly a better gardner
I started a thread missing this one totally, but glad that I was referred to it. Now to read thru it.

To everyone interested in farming that doesn't have this book, get it! Yesterday!
It's been worth every penny!

 

[JohnathanDoe]

Thanks

Thanks

Hi Friends, author of the book and a long time "lurker" of these forums. There is a tremendous accumulation of knowledge here. I have enjoyed the bantering about Teaming With Microbes, though it takes a tough skin sometimes. What author likes to hear that his book SUCKS!

First, I thank all of your who have purchased Teaming With Microbes and Teaming With Nutrients. I hope you have been able to take-away something from each. I wrote each because the topics are important to gardening, gardeners and the environment. The topics were not something I felt most gardeners, including myself, knew about, nonetheless appreciated. I

For those who have complained about Teaming With Nutrients, I am sorry you did not enjoy the book. Again, I wrote it because most people who garden have no clue about fertilizers other than what the Miracle-Gro man tells them. I would not expect that criteria to be applied to members of this group. You are well above the norm when it comes to horticultural experience and knowledge. Yes, this is information you can find elsewhere, but in my experience you have to look at a lot of places. Yes, I did not add anything new to the chemistry or botany....if you were expecting a new element or something, I am sorry. I merely attempted to start at a beginning and teach myself and the reader enough chemistry and botany so they could follow the path of nutrients from the soil to the plant and get a feel for what goes on in those trillions of cells in each plant.

I did want to try and create some awe. 17 trillion cells in an apple tree---maybe only a trillion in good cannabis plant, all connected, membrane proteins that may only operate for a couple of minutes with each nutrient requiring its own kind, molecules somewhere along the line turning into life....

I did want to impress that you have to test your soils, just as you do hydroponics media. This may sound silly here, but no gardener really does this...yet we know information is power. And we know we are using resources wastefully. If you want the best soil grown plant you have to know what the soil lacks, understand pH etc. Again, not something most here need to be told, right? Testing is key.

But most of all I wanted to leave the reader with the tools to look at plants in a different way from now on....full of three dimensional cells, each full of over 10,000 different kinds of enzymes and 1000s of each of those, sending signals to uptake nitrogen, flowing sap, working ribosomes, mitochondria working away like protable generators after a storm...

I want the reader to be able to appreciate what an aphid is doing when it sucks the phloem juices and know why it won't just wash off, that the yellowing of leaves may not be due to loss of nitrogen, that you really can't foliar feed all the nutrients, why plants do best at 75 degrees, the role of nitrogen fixing bacteria, what that damn pH chart really means, how to respond to soil deficiencies and how to make your own soil fertilizers....etc

I want the reader to come away with enough knowledge to appreciate the wonders of what goes on inside a plant, how they are as complex as we are and even how they deserve a tremendous amount of respect.

I want the reader to appreciate more those beautiful and tasteful trichomes which are used in transpiration and to perhaps contemplate them in a different way....which, many here already do.

Finally, I want the reader to understand that what goes on in a plant cell is analogous to what goes on here on earth, and on bigger and bigger scales and to contemplate the possibility that we are just part of a small cell that is inside a larger cell inside a larger one......

My intention was not to create new science but to provide some tools so that people could figure out or at least think about what goes on inside plants and in the soil. Some will be come better gardeners as a result. Others will become more poetic.

Again,THANK YOU ALL for reading the books. I am sorry some think it sucks. Come here my talks, then, someday when I am in your 'hood so I can personally apologize.

Keep on reading the book! Oddly enough it is selling very well with great comments from "average joe's that wouldn't read 10 pages of it!" There are already requests for translation (TWM is in French, Korean, Slovenian and soon, Dutch). Please, critique the hell out of them. I deserve it and need it. There will be a third to complete the Soils Trilogy and I will try and take your thoughts into account

Teaming x 2,

Jeff Lowenfels
Anchorage, Alaska

P.S> sorry for not proofing. No disrespect intended.

Thanks for all the time and effort.
I'm better off in the garden for sure after both of your books.
I thought TWM was lovely and put my on the right track, and I thought TWN found its way to my eyes just in time, and now I feel like a new man. So thanks again for all the time and effort.
I'm probably responsible for a handful of sales due to my cheerleading, but I too was sold on the book by two others.

 

[JohnathanDoe]

This thread has some serious ADHD!

But thanks again for the book! For me it's worth posting in this thread three times consecutively!
Is anyone out there still want to discuss this book? I'd like to!
In 11 pages it seems like almost everything but the actually book is touched on haha.
But there's marijuana involved, so I get it

And to add to my previous brief review, I thought buildup from start to finish was marvelous. It was a little rough to get into, but once the book go going, it was hard to put down. And now I read it a little everyday almost just to be sure I soak everything up.
I did the same with TWM, I read it for a couple months easily.

I think it's a must buy because it's pretty much everything in one place in terms of plant nutrition. If your someone who likes to understand the how's and why's of everything, this book will satisfy you! If you're not too polished, but you want to head in that direction, this book will help you on you way. And if you don't understand it at first, just keep reading..
It will all make since by the end.
And the final thanks!

 

[cocktail frank]

i read teaming with microbes and it was fantastic, working on teaming with nutrients now.
alot of great info in both books, i never fully understood the soil food web until i picked up TWM.
i applied what i learned this year to my flower gardens and lawns outside, so far they are kicking serious ass!.
All the neighborhood women want a piece of me now due to my monster blooms!
They all ask what "fertilizers" i'm using , fuck those chem ferts!
My daughter answers for me, she tells them "it's just fish and poop"
That's how i explained it to her, she is only 5.

 

[JohnathanDoe]

i read teaming with microbes and it was fantastic, working on teaming with nutrients now.
alot of great info in both books, i never fully understood the soil food web until i picked up TWM.
i applied what i learned this year to my flower gardens and lawns outside, so far they are kicking serious ass!.
All the neighborhood women want a piece of me now due to my monster blooms!
They all ask what "fertilizers" i'm using , fuck those chem ferts!
My daughter answers for me, she tells them "it's just fish and poop"
That's how i explained it to her, she is only 5.

Awesome! Must be nice(the ladies haha).
I find myself wanting to help random ppl out whenever I'm in a garden center or somewhere similar, and see someone buying something like Miracle Grow, but I keep my mouth shut to avoid the conversation about my blooms

A little after you finish TWN, you may need to get some restraining orders on those neighbors to keep them away! You might have to let your little girl break it on down to them
Or you can just tell them to Google Jeff Lowenfels haha.

I never imagined that I'd find all this stuff interesting, not to mention finding it as useful as it is. Makes me really wish I would have paid a little more attention in a few classes.
I can't thank the ppl who recommend I buy this book enough.
Maybe it a little redundant to ppl who have been doing this for years and years, but for the aspiring organic farmer, it hit the spot!

I wasn't looking to be entertained in reading this book, I was looking to learn! I saw a few ppl in this thread say they thought the book was boring haha, and my thoughts were well damn, it's a book, not a movie! It was a bit boring at first yeah, but whilst being bored in the beginning I was learning! But to each his/her own! That last bit wasn't meant as a jab to any of you guys who thought the book was boring, or didn't teach you anything.

I guess I felt the need to add that last bit for the average joe in terms of organic farming, or the aspiring organic farmer.

Peace

 

[Microbeman]

Jeff is a friend of mine and to be fair I have not read his new book yet so my comment is random. Always verify information you read. As Jeff discovered after publication, there were a few errors in TWM when some astute readers brought it to his attention. There are other points of view on composting methods as well.

Include me in this corroboration too. If I write something, verify elsewhere. Don't accept the writings of one individual as gospel, no matter how good it sounds.

 

[JohnathanDoe]

Microbeman,

Do you mind filling me in on those errors in TWM when you have a moment?
Or possibly a link to the conversation if you guys have had it here?
And I've found a few typos in TWN, but i don't know nearly as much as he does about this stuff to point out if something within is wrong at this point.
But great advice.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Microbeman]

I can't remember everything but one is the backwards pH thing which I believe he brought up himself in his second publication; another is calling sphagnum peatmoss inert (if I recall correctly) In this case it was info given to him which he believed to be correct. That's all I can think of off the top of my head but none is earth shattering. We are all human and therefore subject to err. Some people clutch to things as fact and spout, well so and so said it.

 

[JohnathanDoe]

I can't remember everything but one is the backwards pH thing which I believe he brought up himself in his second publication; another is calling sphagnum peatmoss inert (if I recall correctly) In this case it was info given to him which he believed to be correct. That's all I can think of off the top of my head but none is earth shattering. We are all human and therefore subject to err. Some people clutch to things as fact and spout, well so and so said it.

Thanks for the response.
Can you elaborate a little for me?
Could you possibly be referring to the pH acidifying with increasing fungal dominance or becoming more alkaline with bacteria dominance?

 

[Microbeman]

No. As I said I'm quite sure that Jeff discusses this himself in the 2nd edition (intro perhaps?) so if you have it you will find it. Other than that google is your friend but may not be so kind to me as I would hate being misquoted as a result of this discussion. You can contact me outside the forum if you wish,