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POWDERY MILDEW SOLUTION HERE!!

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
OK guys/girls. If you're like me, you've had PM (or in this case, have it) and are searching for ways to beat this shit out of your garden. Am I right? Ok, then let me tell you how I beat it for good:


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An idea of what my setup was like just before PM. The non-insulated intake killed me here. I'm sure the carpet didn't make matters any better either...


Long story short - I had to rip my room a part and gut everything, bleach and wipe down every surface and lost half of my freakin hair too it felt like. But I FOUND A SOLUTION that saved my garden, and my entire supply of medicine.

A new company called Dragonfly Earth Medicine just made an appearance in the canna-scene and they're the most knowledgeable growers I've ever met. One of the most informative Instagram pages out there too btw. They gave me a 3-part solution to PM once and for all... and I haven't seen it ever since. I just pulled off my first PM-free harvest and I'm ECSTATIC because I was certain I'd find some in there somewhere (usually on the lower popcorn and big chunky colas). Nope. None. 0% PM.

I feel blessed, and fortunate to run into these generous people. They answered all of my questions (I had a lot) over email and did so within 24 hrs of each email. I wanna make it clean that I don't work for these people, they're a family of people that are passionate about veganic horticulture and self-sustaining gardening. From brewing simple teas to harvesting sustainable microorganisms... they know it all and in between. I'm simply grateful and thankful for this recipe that dehydrated and rid PM from my garden... so after I cut some cuttings tonight in the garden I thought of how I need to make a thread on ICmag about PM because I can seriously feel for someone going through this hell. It's such a headache to have! Before I tell you the formula I wanna tell everyone that I had a sparkly clean garden when I got PM. However, my intake wasn't insulated ducting and it built up moisture on the inside of the duct which was a breeding ground for spores to grow. Buy insulated ducting and/or filter outside air coming into the garden folks.



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After the make-over/foliar spray. Notice the insulated ducting for my intake preventing any moisture from gathering inside. I had the confidence to expand to the fullest I could in this bedroom now that I had eradicated this shit for good!


3-part Powder Mildew foliar spray recipe:


1. 2 tsp (per gal) Bragg's organic Apple Cider Vinegar

2. 1 tbsp (per gal) Bio K probiotic

3. Natural Mystic foliar amendment (as well as Lush Roots, depending on level of infection) as recommended (1 tbsp per gal I believe)



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Dragonfly's veganic line of amendments





It's tea time!




Directions:



Add RO water to your brewer (or de-chlorinated tap, assuming it doesn't contain chloramine in which cannot be evaporated). Add the Natural Mystic and brew for 12 hours. If using the Lush Roots, (which I highly recommend as well if you have the money) add this 1 hour prior of harvesting your foliar tea.


Once harvested, strain tea through a strainer >400 micrometer (or else this tea will be deemed useless as we've just sucked out all beneficials). Add the ACV & Bio K, mix gently and well. Foliar spray thoroughly, top-side and undersides of all plants. Gently mist the top layer of the soil as well, this encourages microbiology which will only help the health of the plant fight this PM. Repeat every 3 days until you see the PM totally gone. It should take about 3 applications.


Cleaning all utensils that were used when the PM was present is a wise idea as well. Once the PM is eradicated (and don't worry, you can do this because it really works) apply the same foliar spray once every 2 weeks as a preventative foliar spray. Prevention is the key to healthy gardens.


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This is NOT PM. These are future resin rails due to a healthy living soil system. These scared me the first time seeing them!




Links:

Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar - http://www.bragg.com/

Bio K Probiotic (original flavor only) - http://www.biokplus.com/en-us/biok-probiotics

Natural Mystic & Lush Roots - https://www.dragonflyearthmedicine.com/


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Veganic/Pro-biotic cannabis grown with this prevention method. This was my first PM-free harvest since the outbreak! ...And my reason for taking the time out to help others get past this PM from hell (as I like to call it).





This shouldn't be impacting many of us as much as it is. It's such an easy disease to acquire, as you can see I had floors you could eat off of but one simple ducting mistake can be the difference between getting sleep at night and being up worrying about what method you're going to try next. These 3 (or better yet, 4 if you add the LR) ingredients used correctly will completely dehydrate and rid the PM spores from your leaf surfaces, and will form a protective film of biologicals that will prevent the spores from coming back. What happens is they're airborne all the time; they just need a host to drink from and young luscious cannabis leaves high in nitrogen is like mud to a pig! I avoid using Azos high N powders from now on for this reason, at least until plants are well-established and have healthy immune systems formed. So anyways, the fungal spores fall on the leaves and penetrate the leaves surface, sucking water from within the leaf and growing larger and larger. If we build up a protective layer of beneficials on that leaf surface, those spores won't have a chance to use the plant as a host. I pop beans in Lush Roots tainted water and begin preventative maintenance from day 1 these days.








Dragonfly's email:

Hey *******, darn! Really is frustrating when you are doing all the right things and things are still making their way into your garden. The last picture if the wide , indica looking leaf, looks like NM residue. And, the middle pic. For sure looks like PM. Spraying every 2 weeks is not enough. Bring it up to 1 time a week and go to your local health food store and buy BioK. Add it to your NM brew at 1 tablespoon per gallon. Add a organic Apple Coder Vinegar and add 2 tsp. per gallon with the Nm and BioK. Spray evenly and soak everything. Do it again in 3 days. And again in 3 days. Till it's gone. It should take about 3 sprays to rid it. You might not really totally get rid of it, but have to keep it to a min. Because it could be a systemic issue in your plants. Are you using the same mother as the last breakout? Do you see it on all strains?
Hope this helps! Usually it kicks PM ass! Good luck and let us know how it goes. Take care, many blessings, Kelly, DEM

Dragonfly Earth Medicine








I hope this helps a few of you out there! Again, take a deep breathe and relax because PM is possible and very easy to overcome with this method. I'd like to thank Kelly from DEM and everyone over there for being so generous and inspiring growers like me to reach out myself! Share this method with someone else and keep the PM ass-kicking train truckin!
 
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MIway

Registered User
Veteran
just a couple of thoughts... read ur entire post...

even if u have condensation in the vent tubes... pm isnt germinating & going to sporulation in them. pm needs a host plant. thats not to say that temp differences isnt a very important factor as a germination signal, just that the condensate in the tubes isnt the source of the problems.

plenty of people grow w/o any pm at all... and dont spray a single thing on their plants, no chems, no biologicals, no nothing. it is arguable if pm will even make any person sick from exposure, but it will reduce plant health & harvest yield, which is a real problem for sure. but by spraying biologicals one is simply growing a whole bunch of other types of mold & bacteria... coating the plants w it, including the nugs. i'd rather have nothing else growing on the nugs... not pm, not botrytis, not harzianum, nor any bacteria.

it really boils down to starting w uninfected plants, and to control general plant health, temps & rh. in a way thats more work than spraying constantly, but at least the product is free from any adulterants. but its front side work, then very little work down the road. this one companies products is still a bandaid... tho filtering the air intake & moderating the temp differentials is solid advice... but spraying a product constantly? unnecessary, if u start clean & healthy + control the environment.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
just a couple of thoughts... read ur entire post...

even if u have condensation in the vent tubes... pm isnt germinating & going to sporulation in them. pm needs a host plant. thats not to say that temp differences isnt a very important factor as a germination signal, just that the condensate in the tubes isnt the source of the problems.

plenty of people grow w/o any pm at all... and dont spray a single thing on their plants, no chems, no biologicals, no nothing. it is arguable if pm will even make any person sick from exposure, but it will reduce plant health & harvest yield, which is a real problem for sure. but by spraying biologicals one is simply growing a whole bunch of other types of mold & bacteria... coating the plants w it, including the nugs. i'd rather have nothing else growing on the nugs... not pm, not botrytis, not harzianum, nor any bacteria.

it really boils down to starting w uninfected plants, and to control general plant health, temps & rh. in a way thats more work than spraying constantly, but at least the product is free from any adulterants. but its front side work, then very little work down the road. this one companies products is still a bandaid... tho filtering the air intake & moderating the temp differentials is solid advice... but spraying a product constantly? unnecessary, if u start clean & healthy + control the environment.


You really have to understand organics to know why foliar prevention is indeed so important...

If you don't spray any foliar protection on your surface youre leaving that surface susceptible to spores in the air. I don't care how clean youre room is... you could put up brand new everything and bleach every surface... but the reality is that spores are airborne 100% of the time anyways. You're right when you say they need a host plant to germinate, but wrong when you say the conditions weren't formed by the vents being moist. No hate, I just know for a fact that beneficials aren't bad for your plants. Plants depend on fungi and bacteria whether you believe it or not, so treating these things through a human-perspective isn't really relevant ya know? That's like saying "ew why would you feed your plants poop? I don't wanna smoke poop."


You don't spray this on flowers, I usually spray one final time at week 2 of flowering to prevent any moisture from being trapped in the flowers. I've produced incredible medicine with preventatives and while you may not have a PM problem right now... you may in the future if you aren't careful and cautious. I remember sitting here on icmag one night after I made my new tent and cleaned it all spick and spam. I was giggling at a PM post someone made and thought to myself "haha, I'll never get that shit my room is squeaky clean." Well... 1 month later and I had it all of a sudden.


PM exposure will indeed make you sick. I was sick after trimming PM-infested bud in my room one outdoor season. Fungi + your lungs = NO good. Our lungs are moist and a perfect breeding ground for fungi to thrive in. Don't smoke PM infested weed either, I throw all of mine out including the surrounding buds of an infected site. This is no joke, unless you want farmer's lung and be caught coughing up blood in the middle of the night lol


I started out by seed so that kinda proves that you're claims false of simply having a clean environment being enough to prevent an outbreak. I've been there man, trust me! The only exception to that rule would be to have a completely sealed room with co2; I should add. Any incoming air from outside the room will indeed contain spores if not ran through a filter so prevention is a must, no? Just don't wanna put out false information in this thread... I want people to take PM seriously because once you get it it's a nightmare. Please only comment with facts that you know from experience!
 
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symbiote420

Member
Veteran
TM is correct about the ducting and the 100% presence of PM in the air .....my bloom room was getting unfiltered air from outside thru non-insulated ducting, my Motorbreath were the only plants to attract PM, my SFV and Ghash are always fine, so are the moms and veggers in an adjacent room. I removed the duct and sprayed the infected plants with Greencure!

Bacteria and fungi are needed by both plants and humans alike to thrive, spraying plants with compost teas teeming with microbes is a very popular practice that's been proven beneficial & effective time and time again!
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
TM is correct about the ducting and the 100% presence of PM in the air .....my bloom room was getting unfiltered air from outside thru non-insulated ducting, my Motorbreath were the only plants to attract PM, my SFV and Ghash are always fine, so are the moms and veggers in an adjacent room. I removed the duct and sprayed the infected plants with Greencure!

Bacteria and fungi are needed by both plants and humans alike to thrive, spraying plants with compost teas teeming with microbes is a very popular practice that's been proven beneficial & effective time and time again!

Well said symbiote. Those damn ducts! Did Greencure work well for you? I was debating that for one of my options before I became a devoted DEM user
 

symbiote420

Member
Veteran
Greencure works pretty damn good just use half the recommended dose or it'll fry your pistils. I'm almost outta Lush Roots 840 myself, love it! I still have a jar of the Fat Flowers I haven't gotten into yet, DEM is a great company with some very nice products ...they're just so dang expensive!!! I've been doing soil drenches using the LR at half strength (1/2 tbsp/gal.)


And I've found one of the most effective & chemical free ways of getting rid of PM is spraying high alkaline water on your plants!
 

OvergrowDaWorld

$$ ALONE $$
Veteran
Well said symbiote420.
I had to put duct tape inside my a/c so light wouldnt stream in through it.
The tape was getting mold on it of course, and blowing the spores into my room.
I sprayed it with bleach water and that took care of the inside of my a/c.
I still get abit of PM on some plants when they are close to harvest.
I spray tap water with a 14 PH, every 3 days, and it takes care of it until harvest.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Greencure works pretty damn good just use half the recommended dose or it'll fry your pistils. I'm almost outta Lush Roots 840 myself, love it! I still have a jar of the Fat Flowers I haven't gotten into yet, DEM is a great company with some very nice products ...they're just so dang expensive!!! I've been doing soil drenches using the LR at half strength (1/2 tbsp/gal.)


And I've found one of the most effective & chemical free ways of getting rid of PM is spraying high alkaline water on your plants!

Hell yeah man! Yeah my first order through them I blew through because I didn't really use it wisely (amending and such) but now I get the most out of them by making teas. If ya brew up you're obviously multiplying bacteria so I only go half strength in teas like you do drenches.


What I REALLY want to do is make my own dry-nutrient mixes it's just finding those ratios like DEM does with the Fat Flowers and Radiant Green that's the hard part.



Good thinkin with the alkaline h20, I had to do that pretty much until I acquired everything to do a full-blown attack on the PM (I used ACV instead). That high pH really does hinder PM growth!
 

MIway

Registered User
Veteran
hey team... so why can i have grown for years now w/o any pm? and no spraying of anything? in a non-sealed room? w both cuts & seeds? in the shittiest armpit of an environment where it is always wet (high rh) outside? how is that possible under your world view?

and also, if ur position is correct... how can u grow thru flowering w/o any further spraying past 2wks? seeing that ur nugs never get sprayed/treated...?

and how is the condensate hosting spores exactly? and what in the pm (specifically) is causing ur illness? u got a medical link explaining?

im just curious.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
hey team... so why can i have grown for years now w/o any pm? and no spraying of anything? in a non-sealed room? w both cuts & seeds? in the shittiest armpit of an environment where it is always wet (high rh) outside? how is that possible under your world view?

and also, if ur position is correct... how can u grow thru flowering w/o any further spraying past 2wks? seeing that ur nugs never get sprayed/treated...?

and how is the condensate hosting spores exactly? and what in the pm (specifically) is causing ur illness? u got a medical link explaining?

im just curious.

If it's the shittiest armpit of an environment and you don't foliar then your soil system must be very healthy...

Every area is different, I'm guessing you live in a dry climate area where moisture isn't really prevalent as much as it is up north here. There are indeed spores in the air, youre breathing them as you read this right now. So if youre climate is moist and youre bringing in un-filtered air from outside then God is either on your side for this one or your plants are incredibly healthy. This is not the norm however, with everyone pouring on bottled fertilizers and whatnot. You've gotta be in tlo and doing a good job at it, so my hats off to you sir :tiphat:


This isn't a cure for flowering plants, nothing can cure PM once it's systemic. But this will prevent it from forming if you use preventative measures through veg and til the 2nd week. I'd never recommend spraying anything on flowers for obvious reasons. If you have PM and you're flowering you plants are as good as gone IMO, unless you'd like to deal with the infections PM causes when inhaled (let alone smoked!).

Research fungi in the lungs and you'll quickly realize why smoking PM isn't a very wise idea lol, but hey... I'm no doctor. Spark up :laughing:
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
the difference is in the genetics and in the health of the mothers. if you are starting with fresh clean plants and they are ending up with pm, then your environment is not good or your plants are not fully healthy or the cuts were not pm free after all.

so if you have a old mum that you love, but that has had pm problems before, then cuts from her will also suffer pm problems again at the drop of a hat, these type of situations require the constant spraying etc. but if you have healthy mums with no pm in their history, then your garden will grow crops without pm again and again without spraying anything on the plants during the whole 3 months of the grow. so even though pm is everywhere as you said, healthy plants are not the favorite place for pm. not that it can't still happen, but again mainly through bringing foreign genetics into your garden that have a systemic pm infection and have not been nuked for it by eagle 20. so yes once you are dealing with this pm crap you have to play the regular spraying game, as by then you are mostly already in flowering and no longer have the hard core option.

i actually gave up a few selected mums a while back because i was getting fed up with the cycle and didnt have a source for eagle 20 and they were selected from my crosses anyway mostly., so i just started again and selected from even more plants. but i also added better ventilation to the mum space and they never got pm since.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I thought a main point of growing organic was to get away from bags and bottles? It looks more like they are preying on organi-newbs. Albeit with the best of intentions (money).

Ignoring that this still looks like a product plug of what amounts to a good tea, why not adjust things a bit:

1. spray high/low pH solution
2. spray homemade tea
3. save money

...?
 

milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Healthy plants do not get PM period...ever.

Plant pathogens, bacterial and fungal diseases, and insects have less complex digestive systems than
higher animals and lack the needed enzymes to digest complete plant compounds. In his book titled,
“Healthy Crops”, Francis Chaboussou has documented a fair amount of research on the plant-pathogen
relationship, protein formation in plants, and the plant immunity connection. Francis’ theory of plant
health, which he terms “taophobiosis”, has its foundation on the premise that insect and disease pests
cannot utilize complete proteins and carbohydrates as a food source.

It is time to stop buying into the shit people want to sell you and start learning how to grow healthy plants with complete proteins, long chain carbohydrates and fatty acids.

You do not need to spray fucking microbes or anything else on your plants. You need to learn to develop long carbon chains.

I am fucking sick of this stupid argument. If someone is trying to sell you something...that someone is full of shit. Learn about enzyme pathways in plants if you want to solve this shit once and for all. It all comes down to providing proper enzyme co factors and then you ain't ever got to worry about it again.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
I thought a main point of growing organic was to get away from bags and bottles? It looks more like they are preying on organi-newbs. Albeit with the best of intentions (money).

Ignoring that this still looks like a product plug of what amounts to a good tea, why not adjust things a bit:

1. spray high/low pH solution
2. spray homemade tea
3. save money

...?


It's not a plug, and take it or leave it I'm sharing a solution for PM for those that have it. There's more to PM than pH and tea, you've gotta dehydrate the hyphae and kill it completely first. Then your preventative maintenance begins. You're paying DEM for the knowledge that you don't have in which they include in each amendment. On their IG page they explain what each ingredient does you should go peep it... you'll learn so much I promise
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Healthy plants do not get PM period...ever.

Plant pathogens, bacterial and fungal diseases, and insects have less complex digestive systems than
higher animals and lack the needed enzymes to digest complete plant compounds. In his book titled,
“Healthy Crops”, Francis Chaboussou has documented a fair amount of research on the plant-pathogen
relationship, protein formation in plants, and the plant immunity connection. Francis’ theory of plant
health, which he terms “taophobiosis”, has its foundation on the premise that insect and disease pests
cannot utilize complete proteins and carbohydrates as a food source.

It is time to stop buying into the shit people want to sell you and start learning how to grow healthy plants with complete proteins, long chain carbohydrates and fatty acids.

You do not need to spray fucking microbes or anything else on your plants. You need to learn to develop long carbon chains.

I am fucking sick of this stupid argument. If someone is trying to sell you something...that someone is full of shit. Learn about enzyme pathways in plants if you want to solve this shit once and for all. It all comes down to providing proper enzyme co factors and then you ain't ever got to worry about it again.

What do you do to create long chain carbs? And what are you using for proteins and carbs as a food source?

Thanks for stopping in man you just caught my attention with this... more than interested to learn about this because Teaming with Microbes or any other soil book I've read never mentioned anything about it. Even Elaine Ingham hasn't from what I've heard so far...

Where can I read up more about this besides the book you mentioned?
 

MIway

Registered User
Veteran
team... im in michigan... we have mold & bacteria growing everywhere outside, no joke, its bad out here. people even smell worse, which i attribute to the very high rh & bacteria we host. we get 96f + 80rh in the summers, and 6f + 80rh in the winters... however that is possible, but its true. most everyone growing here has pm or botrytis as a consequence. oddly enough, the last time i had pm was in co where it is comparatively dry. reason that happened there was i had no control of the room... and no mold here is due to very good control. which costs money, up front... but i dont spray a drop, ever.

add to the fact that my girls are all clean (for years) + any new girl is thoroughly quarantined & nuked... w e20, as gaius was kind enough to comment on. and more towards healthy w a decent immune system, as joe made a point. clean & healthy.

im not special, nor lucky... many growers do it better than i, no doubt. and w/o spraying a thing. it may seem unfathomable, but uv just had a bad run of things, so its a little beyond your experience base... but it really is possible... really & truly. you dont need the sprays... its a bandaid.

either way, iv been in bad spots before... so i get it, and sincerely wish u well + better experiences w future crops. pm sucks, no doubt. peace
 

420247

Plant Whisperer
Veteran
Healthy plants do not get PM period...ever.

Plant pathogens, bacterial and fungal diseases, and insects have less complex digestive systems than
higher animals and lack the needed enzymes to digest complete plant compounds. In his book titled,
“Healthy Crops”, Francis Chaboussou has documented a fair amount of research on the plant-pathogen
relationship, protein formation in plants, and the plant immunity connection. Francis’ theory of plant
health, which he terms “taophobiosis”, has its foundation on the premise that insect and disease pests
cannot utilize complete proteins and carbohydrates as a food source.

It is time to stop buying into the shit people want to sell you and start learning how to grow healthy plants with complete proteins, long chain carbohydrates and fatty acids.

You do not need to spray fucking microbes or anything else on your plants. You need to learn to develop long carbon chains.

I am fucking sick of this stupid argument. If someone is trying to sell you something...that someone is full of shit. Learn about enzyme pathways in plants if you want to solve this shit once and for all. It all comes down to providing proper enzyme co factors and then you ain't ever got to worry about it again.

What do you do to create long chain carbs? And what are you using for proteins and carbs as a food source?

Thanks for stopping in man you just caught my attention with this... more than interested to learn about this because Teaming with Microbes or any other soil book I've read never mentioned anything about it. Even Elaine Ingham hasn't from what I've heard so far...

Where can I read up more about this besides the book you mentioned?

http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Protein-Organic-Fertilizer-Pounds/dp/B00DBENI10

Pure Protein Dry (PPD) is a powerful organic fish fertilizer containing amino acids and beneficial enzymes. It is a complete nutrient for plants and microbes with 15-1-1 (15% nitrogen content), high PPM (parts per million) of iron and zinc, rich macro- and micro-nutrients and beneficial microorganisms, and the highest amino acid profile (> 80%) of any organic fertilizer on the market. The codfish hydrolysate is cold processed and freeze-dried into 100% water-soluble powder that can be used with any aeroponic, hydroponic, or drip irrigation system. With the addition of PPD to your current feeding regimen, you can achieve high yields and rapid results without compromising the health of your plants, soil, or customers. Application: For quickest results, apply PPD as a foliar feed (spray the underside of leaves) at sunset or sunrise 2-3 times/week throughout entire growth cycle (vegetative and flowering/fruiting) up until 2 weeks before harvest. For a healthy root system and rhizosphere, apply as a root drench 1-2 times/week throughout entire growth cycle. For an insane compost tea, add 1-2 scoops of PPD to tea during the beginning of the brewing process. For more information and application instructions, see http://organicagproducts.com/products/pure-protein-dry
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It's not a plug, and take it or leave it I'm sharing a solution for PM for those that have it. There's more to PM than pH and tea, you've gotta dehydrate the hyphae and kill it completely first. Then your preventative maintenance begins. You're paying DEM for the knowledge that you don't have in which they include in each amendment. On their IG page they explain what each ingredient does you should go peep it... you'll learn so much I promise

I'll leave it :)

My apologies, I was simplifying your own method, but the basics are there, as you have clearly pointed out again.

So your advice is to pay another company for knowledge I can look up and implement myself (which thank god, I already do)?

This is the same nonsense philosophy that nutrient companies ride on.

I think I'll learn a lot more (and do! :tiphat:), from avoiding "cures" and magic formulas from a bottle.

Maybe there's a flashy new product you can buy (without having to read or learn) to clear up that "growing on carpet" problem?

Thanks for the new rabbit hole milkyjoe, I always appreciate something interesting to read about over the coffee :) Cheers
 
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