+ cola and commercial weed. And the alligator meat and the humidity. Couple beaches here and there.
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A new possible threat to Stoner Liberties - Pain Management
- Thread starter HempKat
- Start date
+ cola and commercial weed. And the alligator meat and the humidity. Couple beaches here and there.
Yeah I've seen enough episodes of Cops to know never to go to Florida....pills, crack, gators, murders, coke. And people getting busted for cannabis
Dannyboy602
New member
Just started taking Dones. They are a real godsend. Those perks hit too hard and I felt so medicated. I never liked that about them. The dones give me a long, slow and steady relief that I barely feel. I got a great pain doc. And a great PCP. I'm lucky too that pain pills don't do it for me anyway. I'll take a few zannies for that warm relaxing feeling once in a while. But I gotta watch because I love me some zannies. I do feel a nice amount of relief from Cannabis but my pain is too great for the weed alone. I really need those dones.
Cannabis can be real effective as a "breakthrough"reliever but I never found it to be as effective as say methadone.If youre taking methadone as the primary pain killer and using morphine or oxy IR for break through pain,you can switch from those addidictive bitches and take meth when it hurts and erb when it hurts more.I only wish it worked as a primary as well as it works as a breakthrough.Methadone is hell on the heart.I Quit smoking 15 months only to croak from a future meth induced heart attack lol
Well I recently had a follow up to my initial visit with the local pain management and there was something that came out of that which is very disturbing and I felt I should warn others of. Basically they informed me I came up positive for several things. These things were Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Marijuana and Hydromorphone. Now the Oxycodone and Hydrocodone were valid as I had taken both within the 48 hour prior to the piss test sample. The Marijuana I would normally say would have been valid however it has been since Christmas time since I had any which would make it almost 4 months before the sample. To the best of my knowledge the longest period of time Marijuana can stay detectable in urine is 2 months and then only if you are a chronic, heavy smoker and you also have a high BMI and a slow metabolism. So there is no way they legitimately tested my urine as positive for Marijuana unless the sample was somehow contaminated by another sample from someone else who had been smoking marijuana. Another possibility could be a false positive as there are certain medications that can cause a false positive for marijuana. Although I haven't taken any of those so I don't think that was it. The positive for Marijuana though is not what I wanted to warn about. The thing I wanted to warn about was the positive for Hydromorphone. When they presented me with these things they said the Hydromorphone meant I was taking Morphine or Dilaudid. To which I flat out denied because I don't have access to either as neither are found on the streets in the area I live in. So I couldn't take either even if I wanted to. So then the nurse practitioner who was accusing me left the room and came back a few minutes later and said that it could also show up as a mixture of the hydrocodone and marijuana. To which I replied that there is no way they found marijuana in my system as it has been nearly 4 months since I had any. The matter was essentially dropped though because they took me off the narcotics and I wasn't trying to get any nor were they willing to give me any, regardless of my urine. Even though the MRI they order showed 3 herniated discs and sever stenosis in my lower back and one herniated disc and moderate stenosis in my upper back.
This business of there being hydromorphone in my urine though bothered me and so when I got home I did some research and here is what I found. When a person is taking Hydrocodone, as it is being broken down there are liver enzymes it interacts with that will turn it into hydromorphone. It could be a sign of the use of Morphine or Dilaudid use as well since they will also break down to hydrmorphone in the liver but there should be other things present that would only show up for Morphine or Dilaudid. So in other words the presence of hydromorphone in the urine could also simply be proof that an individual is simply taking Hydrocodone.
Now there are only two possible explanations as to why they would say Hydromorphone in the urine must mean I am taking Morphine. One and least likely is that they just don't know any better but if their knowledge of how medicine breaks down in the system is that flawed I would think it would be near impossible for them to pass whatever tests they need, to be certified as a pain management doctor or nurse practitioner. The other and more likely possibility is that they were counting on me as a patient to not know any better and they were hoping to trick me into admitting to other narcotic drug use. That I might think "Oh shit, they caught me, I better fess up".
So the warning is this, if you are taking Hydrocodone and you test positive for hydromorphone do not admit to other narcotic use in an attempt to justify how the hydromorphone was in your system.
This business of there being hydromorphone in my urine though bothered me and so when I got home I did some research and here is what I found. When a person is taking Hydrocodone, as it is being broken down there are liver enzymes it interacts with that will turn it into hydromorphone. It could be a sign of the use of Morphine or Dilaudid use as well since they will also break down to hydrmorphone in the liver but there should be other things present that would only show up for Morphine or Dilaudid. So in other words the presence of hydromorphone in the urine could also simply be proof that an individual is simply taking Hydrocodone.
Now there are only two possible explanations as to why they would say Hydromorphone in the urine must mean I am taking Morphine. One and least likely is that they just don't know any better but if their knowledge of how medicine breaks down in the system is that flawed I would think it would be near impossible for them to pass whatever tests they need, to be certified as a pain management doctor or nurse practitioner. The other and more likely possibility is that they were counting on me as a patient to not know any better and they were hoping to trick me into admitting to other narcotic drug use. That I might think "Oh shit, they caught me, I better fess up".
So the warning is this, if you are taking Hydrocodone and you test positive for hydromorphone do not admit to other narcotic use in an attempt to justify how the hydromorphone was in your system.
Well I did a bit of research and I have a possible explanation but I can't verify it because if I'm right I can't trust the pain management people to tell me I'm right or wrong. Basically it boils down to this whole business of Pain Management being a fairly new field. They all basically do a urinalysis for all patients when they come in for a visit or to get a script refilled. The test, at least where I go is built right into the cup and it tests for multiple things giving results within a few minutes of peeing in the cup. These tests are designed to be very sensitive but being that way and being for a wide range of things it is also very inaccurate and is only meant to serve as a warning as who should get the more accurate, reliable, more foolproof and therefore more expensive gas chromatography-mass spectrometer (GCMS) test. Now as a way of avoiding unnecessary expenses many labs have raised the cutoff levels for marijuana from 20ng/ml to 50ng/ml. At 50ng/ml even a chronic heavy user is likely to test negative after a week or maybe a bit longer. If however the lab is using the stricter 20ng/ml cutoff then a chronic heavy user could test positive even beyond 30 days depending on BMI and metabolism. Still even at 20ng/ml testing positive for marijuana for beyond 2 months seems highly unlikely. However there are also a number of other things such as Dronabinol, Efavirenz, Ibuprofen, Ketoprofen, Naproxen, Piroxicam, Promethazine, Proton pump inhibitors (Prilosec), Sulindac, Tolmetin all can cause a false positive with the more commonly used "instant" test. So for example if you had a headache the night before and took advil it could cause a false positive but the more comprehensive GCMS test would rule it out.
What this leaves one to wonder though, are these places using the more sensitive 20ng/ml cutoff, really paying for all the possible false positives they are getting to be tested by the more expensive GCMS test to make sure they're not false positives? Or are they rolling the dice and telling the patient they definitively came up positive hoping the patient will just fess up to recent use even though it wasn't truly detected beyond a shadow of a doubt?
I think all those BMI stories are from the DEA - causes male breasts, clings to fat cells in your body. Just doesn't happen.
No that's fact, marijuana is not water soluble and does bond to fats, otherwise it would be impossible to make cannabutter. Also when making cannabutter the higher the fat content usually the better the butter because there is more fat for the cannabinoids to bond to.
Now the male breast thing, yeah that's probably from the DEA but I'm talking the claim of actual female type breats growing on men due to marijuana use. Not the kind that naturally develop on men who eat too much and don't exercise enough regardless of if they smoke marijuana or not.
Man this whole situation is just so wrong on so many levels. Here I am having been out of weed and therefore clean and sober since Christmas time. Now 5 months later I'm almost at harvest but because I've been forced into "Pain Management" for a serious chronic back problem (multiple herniated discs in the upper and lower back and fairly severe spinal stenosis in the lower back). Pain management will not prescribe narcotics to anyone using any recreational drugs. The non narcotic solutions just don't even begin to cut it and so I'm forced to have to chose between being able to enjoy the weed I grew for myself or get effective pain relief so I can lead a relatively normal life without being crippled by pain.
This just seems to me like it shouldn't be allowed because effectively it allows doctors to refuse the proper types of treatment for a condition unless you comply with a law that has nothing to do with the medical problem needing treatment. Doctors are supposed to, under the Hippocratic oath, do no harm. Yet isn't it harmful to deny someone proper care because of something unrelated to the problem? I had to give a urine the first time I went to pain management and at that point I hadn't done any form of marijuana in 4 months. Yet they claim I came up dirty which I can't believe unless it was a false positive due to something else I have been taking (certain drugs can cause a false positive) or the sample got contaminated somehow. So for the past month I've been trying to cope with this back pain that typically gets treated with Percocet or Tylenol 3, using just NSAIDs and muscle relaxers and that only works as long as I do nothing all day. As soon as I start walking any distance greater then typical around the house stuff or stand on my feet for long periods or do something like cut the lawn, then I'm in major pain.
I don't want to have to give up my weed but I can't see me going thru the rest of my life with this back pain either and I'm sorry but weed doesn't take care of this kind of pain, at least not the strains I have. I'm just so frustrated because I've been looking forward to this harvest for some time now and when it's almost within my grasp this shit has to come along and ruin it for me. I don't know what to do though and there is no other option. All the doctors in this area have deferred the prescribing of narcotics to "Pain Management" and I can't afford the several hundred mile drive to MAYBE find a doctor who will give me what I need regardless of whether I toke up or not.
This just seems to me like it shouldn't be allowed because effectively it allows doctors to refuse the proper types of treatment for a condition unless you comply with a law that has nothing to do with the medical problem needing treatment. Doctors are supposed to, under the Hippocratic oath, do no harm. Yet isn't it harmful to deny someone proper care because of something unrelated to the problem? I had to give a urine the first time I went to pain management and at that point I hadn't done any form of marijuana in 4 months. Yet they claim I came up dirty which I can't believe unless it was a false positive due to something else I have been taking (certain drugs can cause a false positive) or the sample got contaminated somehow. So for the past month I've been trying to cope with this back pain that typically gets treated with Percocet or Tylenol 3, using just NSAIDs and muscle relaxers and that only works as long as I do nothing all day. As soon as I start walking any distance greater then typical around the house stuff or stand on my feet for long periods or do something like cut the lawn, then I'm in major pain.
I don't want to have to give up my weed but I can't see me going thru the rest of my life with this back pain either and I'm sorry but weed doesn't take care of this kind of pain, at least not the strains I have. I'm just so frustrated because I've been looking forward to this harvest for some time now and when it's almost within my grasp this shit has to come along and ruin it for me. I don't know what to do though and there is no other option. All the doctors in this area have deferred the prescribing of narcotics to "Pain Management" and I can't afford the several hundred mile drive to MAYBE find a doctor who will give me what I need regardless of whether I toke up or not.
BubsNugs
Member
Best of luck man. This pain shit really sucks and having the medical/legal system fucking one over at the same time is so damn frustrating. Back pain scares the fuck out of me my knees are totally screwed and thats bad enough but a bad back must totaslly blow. I hope things work out in the end . Intresting info on those drug tests, bet some assholes making a ton of cash off those as well.
Peace
Peace
You would be best off with an exercise program if you can get through the initial agony that will inevitably result. I've had a screwed up back virtually all of my life, and then made things much worse at work. Three herniated discs in my lumbar spine, four in the cervical, and nine orthopedic surgeries so far. For me, the back pain was almost incidental compared to the explosive, non-stop headaches that result from my neck damage. I take opiates, but have refused to increase the levels that I'm taking as my body became accustomed to them, so now they don't do much other than keep me from going through withdrawals.
I'd done a lot of core work for my back for years, but after getting a disability retirement, I was able to really expand my exercise program. Yoga is the key to my relief - I've been practicing for about ten years now, and the difference is pretty amazing. My girlfriend is a Bikram yoga instructor, and while Bikram isn't really my style, it has been incredible to see how much it helps some people. I've met people who had to sit out 95% of the class initially or had tears streaming down their face for the bulk of the class, and within a couple of months they have gotten their lives back. Pretty amazing.
If you haven't tried methocarbamol (Robaxin), you might give it a shot. It is the best muscle relaxant that I've found - most of them have me either drooling down my chin or seem to have no effect, but methocarbamol is pretty effective and it doesn't lobotomize me.
Good luck.
I'd done a lot of core work for my back for years, but after getting a disability retirement, I was able to really expand my exercise program. Yoga is the key to my relief - I've been practicing for about ten years now, and the difference is pretty amazing. My girlfriend is a Bikram yoga instructor, and while Bikram isn't really my style, it has been incredible to see how much it helps some people. I've met people who had to sit out 95% of the class initially or had tears streaming down their face for the bulk of the class, and within a couple of months they have gotten their lives back. Pretty amazing.
If you haven't tried methocarbamol (Robaxin), you might give it a shot. It is the best muscle relaxant that I've found - most of them have me either drooling down my chin or seem to have no effect, but methocarbamol is pretty effective and it doesn't lobotomize me.
Good luck.
Thanks and I agree that exercise is very important, if one gives in to the pain and does nothing then they will inevitably gain weight from a sedentary lifestyle and the increased weight adding strain combined with weakened muscles will only complicate matters worse. That's why I go on my daily 4 mile walks which I start off with my stretching exercises back from when I was studying martial arts (not too dissimilar to yoga). All I really want is for them to give me back my 10/325 Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen I had been taking the past two years now. It's enough to bring the pain under a manageable level to where I can function fairly normally and engage in all the activities that currently give me trouble without acting like I'm 30 to 40 years older then I am half way thru. It would be nice if they bumped me up to Percocet because those work better and as a result I don't need to take as many but the hydrocodone is satisfactory. That's what's so frustrating to me, I didn't come to them wanting/expecting more then what I was already getting. I came to them because I was forced to, due to changes in how doctors in my area are responding to new government oversight related to prescription drugs, especially narcotics. My expectation was only for them to keep me on what I have been on which is pretty tame compared to what a lot of people I know or have talked to with similar and even less severe problems take.
That's funny, I was into the martial arts for years when I was young and found that I'd been doing yoga all along! Many of the "poses" are identical to the stretches that I'd been doing the whole time. I've found that I prefer the "flow" yoga styles, where one pose leads seamlessly into another.
I use Norco's for breakthrough, but they are apparently one of the more closely-watched pills because they are popular for abuse. I've also found that, while they work pretty damn well when you are using them, I feel like shit the next day from them even if my body isn't hurting.
I use Norco's for breakthrough, but they are apparently one of the more closely-watched pills because they are popular for abuse. I've also found that, while they work pretty damn well when you are using them, I feel like shit the next day from them even if my body isn't hurting.
I'm fortunate as after getting the boot from the "pain management" doc ( who actually said to me " I'm not judging you".....), my regular doc told me she would take care of me and this has become a foundational reason for staying where we are as much as I would like to leave.
Yeah Norco's is just Hydrocodone which while less severe then Oxycodone or OxyContin is still a narcotic. Still they are considered low enough on the scale that they are less restricted. My wife was prescribed Percocet by our former doctor for her pain and every month she had to go to the doctor for a new prescription that had to be hand carried into the pharmacy. Me on the other hand I was taking Norco's which they could still call in and the doctor could include at least one refill. They worked pretty well for my pain and the only drawbacks was that the cause pretty bad constipation requiring the regular use of stool softeners and when taking them regularly I found that it interfered with my urine flow (pissed more like I had prostate problems even though I don't). On the plus side I found that it allowed me to maintain longer erections and kept me from "cumming" as quick.
In spite of the problems and that fact that it didn't free me of all pain I'd be happy to be able to get back on them as they were pretty effective most of the time and I never found myself abusing them and when I was forced off them I didn't notice any withdraw even though I had been taking them steadily for about 2 years at the rate of 90 pills a month. They allowed me to function at a fairly normal level and do the things I need to do on a regular basis without being hampered by pain. Now without them I find myself in fairly constant pain unless I just sit on the couch all day and watch TV which is not an option.
I hear you and understand completely but at the same time can't you see how wrong that is? Nobody should be forced to have to stay somewhere they really don't want to be for fear of not getting an effective form of medical treatment for a chronic condition. Yet that's where the direction of healthcare is headed. I understand the hardline approach of "Pain Management" for people that abuse their prescriptions and or sell their pills on the streets for money but for people who have legitimate need and who take their medicines properly they shouldn't have to worry about these places worrying about if they do other recreational drugs especially marijuana. Sure with things like heroine, cocaine, meth, etc. I can see the concern they can have fairly dramatic interactions and you have to be using pretty regularly to show up in piss tests since there detectability is fairly short term. Marijuana on the other hand has no known harmful side effects, can actually enhance pain meds allowing people to take less or use weaker pain meds like hydrocodone. The problem is it stays in the urine so long even at casual use rates that it's hard to avoid it coming up in these piss tests.
Plus I really don't see where it's the doctor's place to enforce drug laws and yet essentially that's what they do when they screen for marijuana and deny access to effective treatment when found. They force the patient to have to chose one or the other. Which seems to me to be a violation of the Hippocratic oath all doctors are bound by because regardless of whether a person does illegal drugs or not they are still entitled to effective medical treatment.
When I had my 1st appt I told my Dr the truth about what medications I was taking. This included Morphine, Ativan(benzo) and Cannabis(I have a DR. recommendation) I told her I was there to get off the Morphine and Ativan She told me there was no problem as long as you are not taking both Morphine and cannabis as both are pain medications. I got lucky she is a great Dr. I was piss tested it was positive for the 3 I said i was taking. I have been working with her tapering off the Morphine/Ativan. I have had no issues. She even prescribed me more morphine that's lower in strength to tapper off with. I believe it depends on the Dr.
I just saw her on 5/16/2014. If you are on high dosages like I was 240mg a day of Morphine do not do cold turkey unless you are prepared to enter in patient rehab very dangerous you must be monitored. I'm tapering down this is safe for out patient treatment. I did go to there detox depart. They will try to get you to go to In patient rehab.. That DR was an asshole. These DR deal with Addicts they think anyone that's there will lie about there usage. I was a dependent user from a injury very different. I refused to do cold turkey like he Suggested. I told him that's dangerous for someone that's on high dosages like I was. It was all bullshit. I told him I'm done I will let my Primary Dr treat me with tapering off. After that no issues. Opiate use is not the answer. you will always need more to get the same relief from pain do to tolerance everyone will become tolerant after long term use. You will not only have pain but also become Opiate sick after long term use some even experience the sickness after short term use. Now you are in a lot of pain and also very sick from withdrawals even at 240mg a day. believe me you do not want to experience this its worse then the pain.
I just saw her on 5/16/2014. If you are on high dosages like I was 240mg a day of Morphine do not do cold turkey unless you are prepared to enter in patient rehab very dangerous you must be monitored. I'm tapering down this is safe for out patient treatment. I did go to there detox depart. They will try to get you to go to In patient rehab.. That DR was an asshole. These DR deal with Addicts they think anyone that's there will lie about there usage. I was a dependent user from a injury very different. I refused to do cold turkey like he Suggested. I told him that's dangerous for someone that's on high dosages like I was. It was all bullshit. I told him I'm done I will let my Primary Dr treat me with tapering off. After that no issues. Opiate use is not the answer. you will always need more to get the same relief from pain do to tolerance everyone will become tolerant after long term use. You will not only have pain but also become Opiate sick after long term use some even experience the sickness after short term use. Now you are in a lot of pain and also very sick from withdrawals even at 240mg a day. believe me you do not want to experience this its worse then the pain.
I cant even get my scripts filled.Seriously!And when I do its like 2 bucks for a 10 mil. when it used to be about 35 cents apiece.HK I have to piss for these folks twice a year,and lets say I'm really lucky to having a good relationship with the office girls.Hempcat surely they're not watchin your wanker man its a breeze if you know someone taking meth and not smoking lol,its eazy to keep it hot and that's the trick.Heat to 100 degrees and heat the water in a half gallon mason jar even hotter.Anywhere from 90 to 100F and you're in the pee pee zone
