Organic Magnesium Amendments? What Are You Guys Using?
- Thread starter JohnathanDoe
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JohnathanDoe
Member
Thanks for your time in responding.
I'm gonna go ahead with the Epsom Salts and see how it works out.
I feel like I've read enough via all of the University extensions at this point to know that I'm not going to hurt my soil by adding a little Epsom Salt. A lot extensions recommend it for certain crops, and in certain situations.
I started with a naked base and have only very lightly amended it, so I'm sure I could use more of this and that.
I was trying to go with the bare minimum in biobizz, after working with FFOF all along. I would also amend the FFOF and let it sit blablabla. But I wanted to start from the bottom, so I'm trying something new.
And I'm not sure If I'm understanding it right in thinking that the soil organic matter would be able to hold onto the ions, but I mean no offense. I'm just trying to figure things out to the best of my ability.
In weighing the pros vs cons of adding a bit, I can't think of many cons except for the fact that it just might be futile. But I figure I can keep it around in the soil a bit longer by watering carefully, and the crystals won't be coming into contact with any live roots, so I'm not worried about them being "burned"
And in thinking about the pros, the obvious are Mg and S.
That's all I wanna it for.
But anyone that might see this and have anything to say, please do so.
I'm 100% sure there are more things that I'm missing than I'm getting.
JohnathanDoe
Member
I'd really like to go water only while gardening if I can make it happen, and I've never used molasses alone, only with ACTs.
The soil has been wet down with an ACT also.
There were 2tbsp of Molasses in it.
Have you ever used it alone?
JohnathanDoe
Member
And thanks Granger2
I specifically use epsom salts because they are rapidly available and dissolve completely in my pHed water. I don't use molasses because of the coco; too much K if I use molasses with it, so I use it very sparingly. Coco raises potassium levels as it breaks down. IMO applying it once a week should do the trick. Tonight might be Mg night in my tent. 
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-20803342241356/kelpmeal.pdf
^ this shows that in any given sample of kelp meal (ascophyllum nodosum) there is a possibility that it can contain a higher percentage of S, Ca, and Mg than even N.
i'm going to stick to the advice I've given in this thread already... if I wanted to use Epsom salt as my main Mg and S soil amendment ... I'd dissolve it in pure water and, in a bucket, use it to pre-charge bio-char. if I was looking for an instant release Mg source that would also last as a long term, all purpose soil amendment, I'd use worms to "compost" kelp meal ( BTW it should not take 2-3-4 months to do it, a month tops) but, at $5 a lb I would be hesitant to use the right amounts (about 10#'s per cubic yard)
I mean no offense as well but, to me Epsom salt is a band-aid. a "woops I fkdup and didn't prepare my soil right" kind of thing. I use it but, to "start from the bottom" and make a soil "right" it's not in MY arsenal of true organic soil amendments. it is in my first-aid kit though.
^ this shows that in any given sample of kelp meal (ascophyllum nodosum) there is a possibility that it can contain a higher percentage of S, Ca, and Mg than even N.
i'm going to stick to the advice I've given in this thread already... if I wanted to use Epsom salt as my main Mg and S soil amendment ... I'd dissolve it in pure water and, in a bucket, use it to pre-charge bio-char. if I was looking for an instant release Mg source that would also last as a long term, all purpose soil amendment, I'd use worms to "compost" kelp meal ( BTW it should not take 2-3-4 months to do it, a month tops) but, at $5 a lb I would be hesitant to use the right amounts (about 10#'s per cubic yard)
I mean no offense as well but, to me Epsom salt is a band-aid. a "woops I fkdup and didn't prepare my soil right" kind of thing. I use it but, to "start from the bottom" and make a soil "right" it's not in MY arsenal of true organic soil amendments. it is in my first-aid kit though.
JohnathanDoe
Member
I specifically use epsom salts because they are rapidly available and dissolve completely in my pHed water. I don't use molasses because of the coco; too much K if I use molasses with it, so I use it very sparingly. Coco raises potassium levels as it breaks down. IMO applying it once a week should do the trick. Tonight might be Mg night in my tent.
Thanks Gelado.
How do you use the Epsom exactly?
Not that I'll be using it in the same way, just for reference.
Success with the garden
JohnathanDoe
Member
Thanks for sharing the link.
I'm using Algamin which can't be too far off from that, and I didn't think of the Kelp as a main source of Mg or Ca, I chose it for K, micros, and nonessentials, but that product label is an useful.
And I'm not able to vermicompost right now, so that's that.
But no offense is taken. To each his own. Everyone sees through a different set of eyes. Thanks again for all the input.
JohnathanDoe
Member
Also, here's the nutritional analysis for the Kelp Meal that I have.
Not as much Mg abound as in yours if I'm not mistaken.
Not as much Mg abound as in yours if I'm not mistaken.
N : 1.47%
P : 0.21%
K : 1.28%
S : 1.56%
Ca: 1.90%
Mg: 0.21%
there is more Calcium in your Kelp meal than Potassium. the Ca to Mg ratio looks around 10:1 to me as well... yup, seems like a good all purpose fertilizer to me ... minus the P but, that is not the topic of discussion here.
edit: the chlorine and sodium levels are high, why I would suggest composting it first.
I don't have access to dolomitic lime locally--got another suggestion for a rich source of Mg that will meet my plants' needs? I suppose I could have dolomitic lime shipped over (at great expense, let alone the oil needed to transport it across the ocean). I use a wide variety of amendments, and still had Mg issues because of the coco and soft water. There's no reason why epsom salts can't be my primary source of Mg when they're so simple to use. It's not like they're expensive, and they dissolve virtually instantly! I can even buy them on the corner in a pinch! lol
I water using bottles (small personal grow). I use about 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon for 1.5 qts. I put it in the bottle, drop in my two drops of pH down, then fill the bottle. I then water my plants as normal and I'm done! I do that once a week and my Mg needs are met.
I water using bottles (small personal grow). I use about 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon for 1.5 qts. I put it in the bottle, drop in my two drops of pH down, then fill the bottle. I then water my plants as normal and I'm done! I do that once a week and my Mg needs are met.
LOL...it seems that Kelp may have traces of Mg, but there appears to be more Mg in Fossil Shell Flour (food grade DE), Sea-90 (Sea Minerals) and rock dust (earth minerals).
Maxicrop Kelp 0.213%
Neptune Kelp 0.5-1% (hmmm odd, different #s for the same kelp...just different distributors)
GrowMore Seaweed Extract 0.04-0.073%
Perma-Guard Fossil Shell Flour 0.3618%
Agrowinn Rock Dust 1.79%``
Ocean Water 3.91%
Sea-90 (sea minerals) 1.44%
IMHO, these are not significant sources for Mg...but when some of these are used together...they do add to the total number of Mg.
BTW, one major drawback with Kelp Meal is the breakdown time and it consumes Nitrogen. After 28 days from application, Kelp Meal will have only decomposed 14% while consuming 6% of it's Nitrogen. Now compared to Seaweed Extracts--which after 28 days is 38% decomposed/breakdown and consumed 0% Nitrogen (nor was any provided). Hmmm, at 28 days which do I want in my garden? Something that is 14% decomposed vs 38% and that provided -6% vs 0% Nitrogen. Hmmm, not rocket science for me.
Now before all the Kelp Meal fanatics neg rep me...I am not saying Kelp Meal is bad, just saying in my garden and the benefits I seek from Ascophyllum nodosum seaweed...Seaweed Extracts work better for me; I obtain faster results, less Nitrogen is consumed, and the liquid form is much cheaper/affordable than the meal variety. As to quality--I have seen nothing to persuade me that one variety is superior over the other; both provide similar benefits.
Cheers!
Maxicrop Kelp 0.213%
Neptune Kelp 0.5-1% (hmmm odd, different #s for the same kelp...just different distributors)
GrowMore Seaweed Extract 0.04-0.073%
Perma-Guard Fossil Shell Flour 0.3618%
Agrowinn Rock Dust 1.79%``
Ocean Water 3.91%
Sea-90 (sea minerals) 1.44%
IMHO, these are not significant sources for Mg...but when some of these are used together...they do add to the total number of Mg.
BTW, one major drawback with Kelp Meal is the breakdown time and it consumes Nitrogen. After 28 days from application, Kelp Meal will have only decomposed 14% while consuming 6% of it's Nitrogen. Now compared to Seaweed Extracts--which after 28 days is 38% decomposed/breakdown and consumed 0% Nitrogen (nor was any provided). Hmmm, at 28 days which do I want in my garden? Something that is 14% decomposed vs 38% and that provided -6% vs 0% Nitrogen. Hmmm, not rocket science for me.
Now before all the Kelp Meal fanatics neg rep me...I am not saying Kelp Meal is bad, just saying in my garden and the benefits I seek from Ascophyllum nodosum seaweed...Seaweed Extracts work better for me; I obtain faster results, less Nitrogen is consumed, and the liquid form is much cheaper/affordable than the meal variety. As to quality--I have seen nothing to persuade me that one variety is superior over the other; both provide similar benefits.
Cheers!
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As of this cycle I am using diatomaceous earth, zeolite and rock dust in my medium--I water in kelp and sea minerals occasionally too, but again, there's that pesky K issue with coco. I use kelp sparingly.
Perhaps I don't need the epsom salts now, but after all the headaches I've had with Mg deficiency over the last year, I'll stick to my 1/4 teaspoon a week!
Perhaps I don't need the epsom salts now, but after all the headaches I've had with Mg deficiency over the last year, I'll stick to my 1/4 teaspoon a week!
Gelado, The attached pdf (from North Carolina Extension Service) lists some inorganic & organic sources for Mg...these were the biggies--
Magnesium ammonium phosphate 15%
Magnesia (Magnesium oxide) 45%
Sulfate of potash magnesia (potassium magnesium sulfate) 11%
Although not organic, maybe they will help.
Cheers!
Magnesium ammonium phosphate 15%
Magnesia (Magnesium oxide) 45%
Sulfate of potash magnesia (potassium magnesium sulfate) 11%
Although not organic, maybe they will help.
Cheers!
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BTW...about 5 years ago I did an extensive analysis on various brands of Molasses and following is a summary of milligrams of Mg found in 1 gram of Mo (not all published their Mg content--but for those that did....)
Generic Blackstrap 2.149
Organic Dark Unsulfured Blackstrap 1.455
Wholesome Organic 1.455
Brer Rabbit Blackstrap 4.762
Plantation Organic Unsulfured Blackstrap 1.524
Brer Rabbit has the most--but rather costly, especially considering 5 gallons of "generic Mo" can be purchased for less than $20. I view Mo as food for the microherd and anything nutritious for the soil is 100% freebie...an unintended benefit.
Cheers!
Generic Blackstrap 2.149
Organic Dark Unsulfured Blackstrap 1.455
Wholesome Organic 1.455
Brer Rabbit Blackstrap 4.762
Plantation Organic Unsulfured Blackstrap 1.524
Brer Rabbit has the most--but rather costly, especially considering 5 gallons of "generic Mo" can be purchased for less than $20. I view Mo as food for the microherd and anything nutritious for the soil is 100% freebie...an unintended benefit.
Cheers!
JohnathanDoe
Member
Yeah when I bought it, I was think I was Ok in regards to the N and the K, but I thought I would be Ok on Mg via the EWC mostly but i'm not sure about that. I mixed 2 cups, 2tbsp into 2.75 cu ft of base.
And like I said, of that 2.75 cu ft of base, .5 cu ft is EWC.
And its been composting(the soil) for a couple months now.
It composted for 4 weeks prior to sowing, and was in commission for 4 weeks before being broken down again.
They're also a good bit mycorrhizal fungi, a bit of root matter in it.
But over all, it's about 3 months old I'd say, and is sitting moist now.
Thanks for the time
JohnathanDoe
Member
Thanks Gelado,
Being that I'm in soil high in organic matter, sounds like i'd be able to get by on with that solution bi-weekly or monthly even.
And I've previously used a foliar solution of 1/4tsp per pint with organic soap, just a drop. I've never had a problem spraying bi-weekly during veg. I also dissolve it in boiled H2O before mixing to spray.
In learning some of the things I have recently, it's a wonder that I've had descent results.
But in looking back at the kelp meal analysis, I find myself thinking twice about adding it in any amount more than just a bit.
Being that it's highly soluble, I'm not in a rush to apply it.
Just this morning I was set, and again I'm weighing options.
Thanks for the routine definitely.
