is a red/white panel fine?

[seedlingstarter]

I have red and white led's. The have 2 different type of white leds. I have warm white and cool white. Is it ok to use the cool white inplace of blue diodes or do i need them. Im trying to be cheap as i can as it will be a small micro grow. I just don't want a crazy stretching plant from the lack of blue light. any knowledge is much appreciated. Thanks

 

[seedlingstarter]

or a simple led idea for something a little bigger than a pc case. It'll be a box but around the size of a pc about 24 inches high, 12 inches deep, 16inches length just rough measurements

 

[spachal]

In my opinion, combination WW and CW/NW diodes will be OK. I'm going to build DIY lamp for flowering based only on WW multiled panels (2700-3300K)
If I'll need lamp for grow & flower, IMO combination 3:1 WW/NW should be perfect :]

More important will be quality of diodes, very cheap epiled/epistar (low bins) are not suitable ..

 

[frNero]

More important will be quality of diodes, very cheap epiled/epistar (low bins) are not suitable ..

Has it been proven that cheap diodes are not suitable?

 

[morgandecaptain]

Has it been proven that cheap diodes are not suitable?

If your in the USA I would use home depot Cree A19 bulbs for a small grow before I would use the really cheap LED's.

 

[spachal]

Has it been proven that cheap diodes are not suitable?

There is no objective proof :], in my lamp there are cheap diodes too and I still can grow my plants.

But if I can have diodes that can 'convert' two, three times more light with the same input, it should be better, isn't it? :]

For example, epistars/epileds with lower bins have ~ 30-60lm/watt (example), more expensive cree diodes have > ~100lm/W .. much better, right? :]

 

[seedlingstarter]

so your saying that warm white is fine but what about my cool white leds? are these no good they are 6500k, as neutral white is about 4500k right? so should i buy NW and do something else to with my cool whites? I mean i can order either blues or NW. Just wondering if i can use what i already have. The led's are cree xp-e and the whites are 5 watt diodes and the red is 3 watt diodes

 

[tenthirty]

Cree CXA3070 COB is the hot ticket at the moment on top of Ideal solderless COB holders mounted to Arctic Alpine 11 Plus heatsink.

Here are my not so coherent notes.

Cree COB
CXA3070 3000K Z4 @ 1.4A = 52W @ 39.3% efficient
CXA3070

Led holders
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2-2154857-2/A107375-ND/3829761
http://www.newark.com/ideal/50-2234c/led-holder-cxa30-array-series/dp/90W0065?CMP=AFC-OP
Ideal Solderless COB Holder 50-2234C

Power supply
ZPC-381500L $11.25 ea. 20-39v at 1.5a. (*best efficiency)
Meanwell HLG-185H-C1050
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2101315_-1
HLP-80H-42
650ma for veg 150 l/w


Fan PSU
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-2A-DC-U...642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad32204b2
$7.98

Heatsink
http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Alpine...8&qid=1397437219&sr=1-10&keywords=arctic+80mm
Arctic Alpine 11 Plus

Not super complete, but a good starting point.

 

[frNero]

There is no objective proof :], in my lamp there are cheap diodes too and I still can grow my plants.

But if I can have diodes that can 'convert' two, three times more light with the same input, it should be better, isn't it? :]

For example, epistars/epileds with lower bins have ~ 30-60lm/watt (example), more expensive cree diodes have > ~100lm/W .. much better, right? :]

Of course but the cheap leds cost 10times less. Maybe they are a good point to start.
Epistar and epileds claim to emit 90lm/w for white leds but their cost is really lower compared to the top quality brands.
Of course we should take in account the electricity cost too, so if we get to choose higher efficiency diodes we consume less....but how much time will it take to recover the higher expense ?

 

[seedlingstarter]

Of course but the cheap leds cost 10times less. Maybe they are a good point to start.
Epistar and epileds claim to emit 90lm/w for white leds but their cost is really lower compared to the top quality brands.
Of course we should take in account the electricity cost too, so if we get to choose higher efficiency diodes we consume less....but how much time will it take to recover the higher expense ?

so are you saying that cheaper cobs are a better starting point? with cobs would all i need is a 3500k white light to grow me something. My room runs a little warm in the summer this is why i wanna go the led route.

 

[morgandecaptain]

Cree CXA3070 COB is the hot ticket at the moment on top of Ideal solderless COB holders mounted to Arctic Alpine 11 Plus heatsink.

Here are my not so coherent notes.

Cree COB
CXA3070 3000K Z4 @ 1.4A = 52W @ 39.3% efficient
CXA3070

Led holders
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2-2154857-2/A107375-ND/3829761
http://www.newark.com/ideal/50-2234c/led-holder-cxa30-array-series/dp/90W0065?CMP=AFC-OP
Ideal Solderless COB Holder 50-2234C

Power supply
ZPC-381500L $11.25 ea. 20-39v at 1.5a. (*best efficiency)
Meanwell HLG-185H-C1050
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2101315_-1
HLP-80H-42
650ma for veg 150 l/w


Fan PSU
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-2A-DC-U...642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad32204b2
$7.98

Heatsink
http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Alpine...8&qid=1397437219&sr=1-10&keywords=arctic+80mm
Arctic Alpine 11 Plus

Not super complete, but a good starting point.

That's my setup except the fan PS. I went with the ideal holders and the PS is similar. I got my Arctic Alpine 11 Plus coolers at Tiger Direct for $8 each delivered but last time I checked they were out of stock,Newegg had the next best price I found.

Of course but the cheap leds cost 10times less. Maybe they are a good point to start.
Epistar and epileds claim to emit 90lm/w for white leds but their cost is really lower compared to the top quality brands.
Of course we should take in account the electricity cost too, so if we get to choose higher efficiency diodes we consume less....but how much time will it take to recover the higher expense ?

The home depot Cree bulbs are about 85lm/w and in my state are about $1 a watt for the 800 lm model with a ten year warranty. They work great for a small cabinet grow and if you don't like them just use them around the house. The really cheap stuff have high failure rates and good luck with a warranty so it's more of a gamble.

 

[frNero]

I'm not from usa, it seems that those bulbs are sold only by home depot.
Here they cost 3 euros/w that's quite a big difference :\

 

[sammyz2646]

Cree CXA3070 COB is the hot ticket at the moment on top of Ideal solderless COB holders mounted to Arctic Alpine 11 Plus heatsink.

Here are my not so coherent notes.

Cree COB
CXA3070 3000K Z4 @ 1.4A = 52W @ 39.3% efficient
CXA3070

Led holders
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2-2154857-2/A107375-ND/3829761
http://www.newark.com/ideal/50-2234c/led-holder-cxa30-array-series/dp/90W0065?CMP=AFC-OP
Ideal Solderless COB Holder 50-2234C

Power supply
ZPC-381500L $11.25 ea. 20-39v at 1.5a. (*best efficiency)
Meanwell HLG-185H-C1050
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2101315_-1
HLP-80H-42
650ma for veg 150 l/w


Fan PSU
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-2A-DC-U...642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad32204b2
$7.98

Heatsink
http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Alpine...8&qid=1397437219&sr=1-10&keywords=arctic+80mm
Arctic Alpine 11 Plus

Not super complete, but a good starting point.

This is the kind of post that I can't thank you enough for! Thanks a bunch for the point in the right direction as far as some DIY options

Unlike some others here, I will need to try and run these CXA's @ closer to full power than ~ 52 watts.
Again, I don't know the details about heat and chip efficiency, but I need the full intensity of numerous CXA's to achieve my goals, even if it means running hotter and less efficient.
I cannot afford to keep a super small distance between the canopy and the lights. I simply cannot afford to raise and lower and raise and lower to keep the 18- ish inches I need to produce sizable fruit.
I plan on trying several 100 watt warm whites running at nearly full power at a distance of ~ 24 - 30 in.

Any reason why this is problematic? I am not certain what to expect with these new CXA's

I have yet to receive the heat sink for my 1st test light, but am looking forward to seeing just how well these impact my garden.

 

[sammyz2646]

Check this guys CXA array DIY light---. Im pretty sure that these are CXA 3070's







And HIS results:

 

[morgandecaptain]

Sammy,as long as you realize the harder you drive them the less efficient they become,the hotter they run,the faster they degrade and the shorter the life span.

The DIY build of Gaius that you posted are CXA Z2's at 1.4 amps which are driven the same as my Z4's and max is 2.8 amps. Not sure I would run them over 2 amps since these are not that cheap of a set up.

 

[spachal]

seedlingstarter, check this table .. as you can see, there are huge differences between LEDs (manufactures & bins). That's why I don't recommend cheap leds for DIY lights .. (last column is most imortant, it's efficiency)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=50834&pictureid=1187816

About light temperature, for bloom is IMO perfect to have leds 2700-3300K (warm white) only, for grow & bloom to mix 2700-3300K wiith ~4500K (neutral white) appr. 3:1 (maybe with dimming both spectrums).

 

[sammyz2646]

Sammy,as long as you realize the harder you drive them the less efficient they become,the hotter they run,the faster they degrade and the shorter the life span.

The DIY build of Gaius that you posted are CXA Z2's at 1.4 amps which are driven the same as my Z4's and max is 2.8 amps. Not sure I would run them over 2 amps since these are not that cheap of a set up.

I am just barely cracking the surface on actually understand the drivability- vs.- heat -vs.- prolonging the cob-vs. desired intensity.

Thank you for pointing out the amperage as I am not too sure how all this stuff works. The amperages are still a grey area for me to understand.

Seems like ~ 50 % is a good target then?

Then I will need 200 watt COB's driven @ 50 % Might have to go the Chinese route. I understand that if the heat can be contained properly, that all the issues that they (the Chinese) have been having with their full spectrum cob's, are NOT such an issue with a higher wattage warm white cob. Is this information accurate?


M & C thanks a bunch for the helpful tip

 

[morgandecaptain]

I am just barely cracking the surface on actually understand the drivability- vs.- heat -vs.- prolonging the cob-vs. desired intensity.

Thank you for pointing out the amperage as I am not too sure how all this stuff works. The amperages are still a grey area for me to understand.

Seems like ~ 50 % is a good target then?

Then I will need 200 watt COB's driven @ 50 % Might have to go the Chinese route. I understand that if the heat can be contained properly, that all the issues that they (the Chinese) have been having with their full spectrum cob's, are NOT such an issue with a higher wattage warm white cob. Is this information accurate?


M & C thanks a bunch for the helpful tip

Temp is a major factor in efficiency,output and life. If you want to increase your driver amps it will push up your temps and you can help minimize this by increasing your cooling. A analogue would be when computer geeks want to do crazy overclocks on computer CPU's they would cool it with liquid nitrogen,basically electrical systems work better when cooler.Here are a couple charts that I got from a highly skilled member. One shows outputs from driving at different currents and the other is how temps affect the output over time. Don't go cheap you'll regret it later,best to save up some more money and do it right.

 

[Bueno Time]

This is the kind of post that I can't thank you enough for! Thanks a bunch for the point in the right direction as far as some DIY options

Unlike some others here, I will need to try and run these CXA's @ closer to full power than ~ 52 watts.
Again, I don't know the details about heat and chip efficiency, but I need the full intensity of numerous CXA's to achieve my goals, even if it means running hotter and less efficient.
I cannot afford to keep a super small distance between the canopy and the lights. I simply cannot afford to raise and lower and raise and lower to keep the 18- ish inches I need to produce sizable fruit.
I plan on trying several 100 watt warm whites running at nearly full power at a distance of ~ 24 - 30 in.

Any reason why this is problematic? I am not certain what to expect with these new CXA's

I have yet to receive the heat sink for my 1st test light, but am looking forward to seeing just how well these impact my garden.

The higher your drive current, the less efficiency. Once you get down to ~36% efficiency you might as well be using a 600w or 1000w HPS since it would be about the same efficiency and far less cost to purchase to go with the trusty HPS over the COBs.

When your efficiency drops, the heat generated per useable light produced rises and you will not be benefiting from reduced heat in the grow space vs using a large wattage HPS. If your efficiency on the LED unit is below ~36% it will be putting out more heat per watt due to inefficiency than a large wattage HPS.

That being said these CXA cobs can be ran a lot harder than 1.4A, they are built to handle it, it is just a balancing act between efficiency and output. For me I feel like that drive current is 1.4A as my max.

Here is some efficiency and output tables for the CXA3070 Z2 bin and Z4 bin. Its going to be difficult to source the Z4 bin in small quantities FYI, so you may likely be using the Z2 bin. In the tables you can see how fast the efficiency drops off as current increases and will only get worse the higher your drive current is.

 

[sammyz2646]

I am beginning to understand. . . . .