Male influence on females

[Thule]

If environmental conditions affect a plants gender I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to "decide" their sex based on the gender of other nearby plants to achieve pollination. I tend to think that's exactly what they do.

What Plants Talk About - Documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmM1N754vU

Another interesting link

http://www.wired.com/2013/12/secret-language-of-plants/

 

[lr3]

What Plants Talk About - Documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmM1N754vU

Another interesting link

http://www.wired.com/2013/12/secret-language-of-plants/

interesting video about how plants use chemical messengers to ensure their survival. plants may be relatively stationary but they still have a high degree of interaction with their environments and are far from passive bystanders--very similar to how fungi ensure their survival (see tangentially related video by Paul Stamets). seems likely that plants also have a much higher degree of interaction with fungi.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_stamets_on_6_ways_mushrooms_can_save_the_world#t-316211

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Environment maybe only effects plants phenotypical expression not its Genotypical sex expression.

-SamS

If environmental conditions affect a plants gender I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to "decide" their sex based on the gender of other nearby plants to achieve pollination. I tend to think that's exactly what they do.

What Plants Talk About - Documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmM1N754vU

Another interesting link

http://www.wired.com/2013/12/secret-language-of-plants/

 

[siftedunity]

...

 

[lr3]

Environment maybe only effects plants phenotypical expression not its Genotypical sex expression.

-SamS

i've wondered this as i've seen posts elsewhere stating as if it were fact, that the spectrum of light (more blues less red) produces more females. if this was true, it would support that plant sex is environmentally influenced. seems a little far fetched, but then again, to someone unfamiliar with hermaphroditism, that would seems a bit far fetched as well. personally i think plant sex is set (XY configuration) and any environmental influences are more likely to be causing hermaphroditism rather than the plant choosing it's sex based on environmental factors.

just my $0.02

 

[Thule]

Some reptiles are known to turn either male or female depending on the temperature of the eggs, so it's not far fetched in the animal kingdom.

In my limited experience with cannabis I always thought I saw more males in stressful conditions so I am at least open to the idea that sex isn't predetermined in the species.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Some reptiles are known to turn either male or female depending on the temperature of the eggs, so it's not far fetched in the animal kingdom.

In my limited experience with cannabis I always thought I saw more males in stressful conditions so I am at least open to the idea that sex isn't predetermined in the species.

Sex in Cannabis is determined by genetics, sexual expression is modified by the environment, again determined by genetics + environment. If the plant was a genetic female when you sprouted the seed and the enviorment modified the sex expression it did not change the genes, it only modified the sexual expression, it is still a bitch. Get it? An earlier post of mine:
I suspect an inter-sex can be genotype or inter-sex can be just expression that is phenotype and maybe also needs environmental stress to inter-sex, I am not sure how you can tell the difference just by looking at them, maybe with testing. They both likely have a genetic basis, inheritable by progeny. I hope they find/develop DNA tests for inter-sex plants, maybe for both genotype and phenotype inter-sex like they already have for Male and Female genotype plants, the sooner the better.
Any ideas?
Colors like purple are controlled by genes and some plants will turn purple no matter what the temperatures are hot or cold, while other varieties will not turn purple unless the temperatures get below 30-50. So inter-sex is a bit like that.
I hope this is clear, I am getting old and my mind is getting feeble.
If you think Cannabis and reptiles are so similar try smoking a reptile, you will get the difference immediately.
-SamS

 

[Only Ornamental]

If you think Cannabis and reptiles are so similar try smoking a reptile, you will get the difference immediately.
-SamS

With amphibians like cane toads that would work though...

Reptiles are a good and a bad example, because there are some with sex chromosomes, some with sex 'microchromosomes', still others with only autosomes where temperature influences one way or the other, and such which have sex chomosomes but still react to temperature (often extreme temperatures) in one or the other way.
At first, reptiles had an environmental sex determination (like everything), some (sometimes only one species within a genus or all except one!) developed genetic sex determination (several are still in plain evolution or 'got stuck' in between on purpose), and a third part kind of inverted evolution from genes back to environment (again, sometimes fully, sometimes in between).
Reptiles like cannabis usually have a less fixed sex determination which can be influenced, especially during pregnancy and in the egg, but sometimes even during childhood, with external factors. The best known factor is temperature, but there are others as well (often unknown)... and then there is environmental pollution, like birth control pill and sunscreen products in the waste water leading to male sterility (or partial sex reversion) or genetic males as phenotypical females (often but not necessarily sterile).
Until the formation of sexual organs, one can influence its formation with external and internal factors (chemicals, temperature, hormones etc.), no matter which organism we choose. Many reptile species and cannabis are just amongst those very susceptible to such 'stimuli'.

It would be interesting why cannabis is not entirely one or the other... did it not evolve completely, was it on purpose that it retained some susceptibility to environmental influence or did it even reverse evolution?
With reptiles this question could be answered for certain species but not (yet) for all. Unlike cannabis, there are many reptiles of several families etc. where we know the relevant genes and hence can compare and draw 'evolutionary maps' and genealogical trees etc. to see where in 'sex determining evolution' a certain species is. With cannabis we're not even sure how many species or subspecies we're dealing with and to which degree these are hybridised with each other.

 

[lr3]

Some reptiles are known to turn either male or female depending on the temperature of the eggs, so it's not far fetched in the animal kingdom.

In my limited experience with cannabis I always thought I saw more males in stressful conditions so I am at least open to the idea that sex isn't predetermined in the species.

if stressful conditions, it may be herming (sp?) and appear to be more males. just a thought. gekos reproduce asexually when there are no males or females to breed with. keeps the species going until a new gene donor comes along. cannabis herming seems to accomplish the same function.

 

[lr3]

If you think Cannabis and reptiles are so similar try smoking a reptile, you will get the difference immediately.
-SamS

only heard of smoking venom of a few species of Bufo toads, which are technically amphibians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_toad

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

only heard of smoking venom of a few species of Bufo toads, which are technically amphibians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_toad

When I lived in India I smoked King Cobra venom with 3 Sadus, they milked the Cobra, put the venom on a piece of rice paper, let it dry, then smoked it with me in a chillum. First they looked in my mouth to be sure I had no open cuts in my mouth, they said it could kill me if I did. I also smoked scorpion venom. They were pretty strong, more like PCP or Ketamine, a dissociative high like fly Agaric, Amanita Muscaria. They said it was like acid but they had never tried acid.
India 1971 was like no place I had been before...
-SamS

 

[lr3]

When I lived in India I smoked King Cobra venom with 3 Sadus, they milked the Cobra, put the venom on a piece of rice paper, let it dry, then smoked it with me in a chillum. First they looked in my mouth to be sure I had no open cuts in my mouth, they said it could kill me if I did. I also smoked scorpion venom. They were pretty strong, more like PCP or Ketamine, a dissociative high like fly Agaric, Amanita Muscaria. They said it was like acid but they had never tried acid.
India 1971 was like no place I had been before...
-SamS

i've only eaten cobra, in thailand in the mid 1990's. never heard of people smoking snake or scorpion venom, i wonder what the psychoactive chems are to produce a PCP/K like high as both of these always felt very synthetic and cold to me. i see lots of cobras and scorpions in markets in China and SE Asia, but as far as i know they are for eating. i'd think in india they would have had some experience with mushrooms since nice big cubensis grow on elephant dung, which might give them a point of reference much close to LSD, though to me the two are distinctly very different--as are mescaline, mesc derivatives, as well as DMT and substituted tryptamines (Shulgin et al.). never had much desire to try amanita though i have had the opportunity on several occasions but high sounded very disorienting, similar to that of datura or brugmansia, etc (some others that i never had much desire to bioassay).

just my $0.02

 

[vostok]

I do this...keep a late male in with the females for the same reason, guys we are only in the 21st century WE don't know it all yet, and I think keeping a male around to make those bitches hungry for him is a logical thing to do, often I'm requiring some pollen anyway, and as a fan of Chimera, Only Ornamental even Sam_Skunkman lol ...

The theory is that female plants can feel the presence of a young male plant and ""react""
accordingly ...lol, I'm not suggesting that removing all male plants that one female could herm towards being a male, in the belief that "LIFE WILL FIND A WAY" ..

But I'm also known for playing Mozart to my plants first month of veg too ..lol

 

[harry74]

Ram Dass & Gurus& LSD

Ram Dass & Gurus& LSD

When I lived in India I smoked King Cobra venom with 3 Sadus, they milked the Cobra, put the venom on a piece of rice paper, let it dry, then smoked it with me in a chillum. First they looked in my mouth to be sure I had no open cuts in my mouth, they said it could kill me if I did. I also smoked scorpion venom. They were pretty strong, more like PCP or Ketamine, a dissociative high like fly Agaric, Amanita Muscaria. They said it was like acid but they had never tried acid.
India 1971 was like no place I had been before...
-SamS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

I guess you know this guy.

It looks like in one on his travels to India, he carried some liquid Lsd with him. He was with one of this spiritual teachers and the guy saw the liquid and asked what it was. Lsd answered Ram Dass.
So this yogui took all the liquid LSD and stayed there like nothing kind of wtf?

western spiritual wanabeesLOL

 

[harry74]

Hermies& enviromental factors thai landraces

Hermies& enviromental factors thai landraces

http://www.tourismthailand.org/Thailand/weather

I have never been in Thailand but it looks like the rainy season lasts from may to november. The monsoon coming from the southwest brings humidity&rain.

I guess it makes sense that if the males are flowering and you have a nice rain/high humidity (like seen in Vietnam war films) the pollen of the males is not going to work.
The Land races there adapts to the situation and triggers some male flowers, in order to ensure the SURVIVAL.

We know that some african lines like Durban, are hermie prone too.But in Africa the humidity/rain can´t be the enviromental factor. I think the cause could be draught/very dry years may be?? I can´t think of another cause.

Not trying to stir the shit but again I think there is a big difference between male flowers produced by a female plant NATURALLY in response to a enviromental situation VS male flowers produced CHEMICALLY by the human race in response to a GREEDY MENTALITY.

My 2 cents

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

http://www.tourismthailand.org/Thailand/weather

I have never been in Thailand but it looks like the rainy season lasts from may to november. The monsoon coming from the southwest brings humidity&rain.

I guess it makes sense that if the males are flowering and you have a nice rain/high humidity (like seen in Vietnam war films) the pollen of the males is not going to work.
The Land races there adapts to the situation and triggers some male flowers, in order to ensure the SURVIVAL.

We know that some african lines like Durban, are hermie prone too.But in Africa the humidity/rain can´t be the enviromental factor. I think the cause could be draught/very dry years may be?? I can´t think of another cause.

Not trying to stir the shit but again I think there is a big difference between male flowers produced by a female plant NATURALLY in response to a enviromental situation VS male flowers produced CHEMICALLY by the human race in response to a GREEDY MENTALITY.

My 2 cents

Intersex is caused by genes that directly make intersex everytime or genes that when tripped by the enviornment cause the plant to express intersex.
I used STS for Cannabis breeding for the last decade or two, I never sold a single all female seed. People are all different and why they do things is for many reasons besides $. STS is just a tool, it can be used poorly or wisely, intersex plants are just as common from male/female crosses as all female seeds. It all depends on the mother and fathers used to make the all female or regular seeds, if they have intersex genes then you will get intersex progeny. And most do.
-SamS

 

[harry74]

Intersex is caused by genes that directly make intersex everytime or genes that when tripped by the enviornment cause the plant to express intersex.
I used STS for Cannabis breeding for the last decade or two, I never sold a single all female seed. People are all different and why they do things is for many reasons besides $. STS is just a tool, it can be used poorly or wisely, intersex plants are just as common from male/female crosses as all female seeds. It all depends on the mother and fathers used to make the all female or regular seeds, if they have intersex genes then you will get intersex progeny. And most do.
-SamS

OK. But I guess there was a time when the cannabis plants didn´t have that intersex trait the same as the autoflowering trait is a reaction of the plant to certain environment in order to survive.

STS
The way it was explained to me is that the main focus of the research was to increase the production of courgette; I know has been used with other fruit/ veggies.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2229/13/139
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20113341056.html

I agree can be a breeding tool. If you have a interesting selected female, you can make S1 of her and grow them to see if the offspring are look like, there is some variation, a lot of variation,to know more about that plant.
But from there to make S1 or femmi crosses and sell them as " The Holy Grail"...... take the money and run Forrest Gump LOL.

And again if you treat a living plant with a chemical, there must be some side effect and it looks like no one cares..

Research programs can be sponsored to be carried in Universities... but well ¿where is the next canna-fair circus?
¿Next dodgy supercup? Let´s go there, Everything is Lovely!!!!

The Show Must Go On!!!
Don´t take this very seriously...

 

[Only Ornamental]

OK. But I guess there was a time when the cannabis plants didn´t have that intersex trait the same as the autoflowering trait is a reaction of the plant to certain environment in order to survive.

Please read post #28 (my last one); even though mainly about reptiles, the bottom line is that we don't know why cannabis shows 'hermies' and 'intersex traits'.
Usually when it's about biology, there's a reason and a benefit for the organism... but these are often not obvious to us humans .

 

[harry74]

I´m not Young enough

to know everything.


J.M Barrie

 

[lr3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

I guess you know this guy.

It looks like in one on his travels to India, he carried some liquid Lsd with him. He was with one of this spiritual teachers and the guy saw the liquid and asked what it was. Lsd answered Ram Dass.
So this yogui took all the liquid LSD and stayed there like nothing kind of wtf?

western spiritual wanabeesLOL

i have a friend who knows Ram Dass, it was actually blodder or windowpane LSD (not liquid). The yogi told Ram to get to town and call his mother that she needed him so he went and called and learned that she had a major health issue (like ruptured appendix, i don't recall the details but it was a significant health issue) and she really wanted to speak with him. he went back and the yogi told Ram "you have something in your shirt pocket, give it to me". He had several hits (10 or 12) of LSD in that pocket--the yogi ate them all and then sat there like he was not affected. told him something like this: "ah, not bad--figures westerners would find spirituality in something material". he then said "do you want to try something better/stronger" and proceeded to teach him some hard core mysticism. That was the gist of the visit--Ram was amazed that he knew about his mom and could eat that much acid and maintain a straight face... so he was all ears when he offered to take him on as a student (for lack of a better word). pretty cool story. early 70's in india--beatles, gurus, LSD. must have been an interesting time to be in india.