auto project, plants not autoflowering? advice / help?

[habeeb]

hi guys,

I crossed a plant to an autoflower, and the offspring are not showing any traits of autoflowering what so ever ??? the mom's were auto's, pollen from normal dad's..

they did show sex at 5 node, but it's been at least 20 days and there at the 13th node and nothing showing auto traits... 10 females I'm getting this info from..

anyone have any advice, anyone experience the same?? any tips / help would be great as I was just expecting half to flower half not to, and the ones to flower a little later then usual ( 2 weeks ) , but I was not expecting zip, zero auto trait...


Thanks

 

[Mitsuharu]

Hey,

... the mom's were auto's, pollen from normal dad's..

All i know is that you can cross any regular female strain with any regular male auto strain to get the autoflower properties.

I got this from an interview with the Breeder Nirvana Seeds in a grow mag. Maybe next year i am going to try this for myself...

 

[JointOperation]

u wont find autos in every seed.. usually one cross to an auto will cause maybe 20-25% to be auto.. of out ALL OF THE SEEDS... then u should pop seeds until finding the autos.. and use those to continue the project to create autos..

 

[Mitsuharu]

...cross any regular female strain with any regular male auto strain to get the autoflower properties.

Buddy from Nirvana says: We've crossed a regular female with a regular auto male.
If you use the right male plant for that, you can make an automatic version of any strain... so its important to use a auto male.

 

[Only Ornamental]

From what I've read and seen, different types of autoflowering varieties exist (due to different origins of this trait).
For one, there's Finola (hemp) which is autoflowering at least under 18/6 (males 24/0) and this trait shows dominant inheritance.
Most other autos are recessive and according to Mendel the F1 offspring (first cross auto x normal) will result in normal flowering plants. The F2 will result in about 1/4 autos, 1/2 carrying the trait without showing and the rest is and will always be normal.
I've also heard about multigenetic traits which show an inheritance not following Mendel's rules. There you also have a lower chance of finding autos in the F1 than in the F2. These autos may simply be very early flowering plants. Notably, this very early flowering trait may sometimes behave unpredictable although it is often dominant in hemp.
Besides 'normal' autos also 'superautos' exist; I started a post in the auto-section but could not figure out much. Likely, these two traits are not on the same allele but that remains to be proven.
Last point, some 'autos' aren't really autoflowering or just some plants within the variety show truly flowering independent of day/night-length (like Mighty Mite).

 

[habeeb]

From what I've read and seen, different types of autoflowering varieties exist (due to different origins of this trait).
For one, there's Finola (hemp) which is autoflowering at least under 18/6 (males 24/0) and this trait shows dominant inheritance.
Most other autos are recessive and according to Mendel the F1 offspring (first cross auto x normal) will result in normal flowering plants. The F2 will result in about 1/4 autos, 1/2 carrying the trait without showing and the rest is and will always be normal.
I've also heard about multigenetic traits which show an inheritance not following Mendel's rules. There you also have a lower chance of finding autos in the F1 than in the F2. These autos may simply be very early flowering plants. Notably, this very early flowering trait may sometimes behave unpredictable although it is often dominant in hemp.
Besides 'normal' autos also 'superautos' exist; I started a post in the auto-section but could not figure out much. Likely, these two traits are not on the same allele but that remains to be proven.
Last point, some 'autos' aren't really autoflowering or just some plants within the variety show truly flowering independent of day/night-length (like Mighty Mite).

ok. that might make sense.. I know of a white blackberry project where the white didn't show till a next generation..

looking into it more, I have seen this confirmed, the "made" seed lot will not auto at all, it will be in the "f2" line we start to see some of the traits come out.. I'm planning another hit of normal pollen to bring the percentage of the other non auto genes to 75%, so that should give me an even lower percentage of autos to pick from next round..


thanks again for the info.. thought I was going mad not seeing any autos at all... haha



thanks everyone

 

[harry74]

I´m just guessing, don´t know much about autos, but may be you need to find in your seedstock autoflowering plants, and cross down the line this ones.

I think you usually need at least 4 generation to have 100% auto plants.

The big problem is that you can´t keep plants as P1 stock and clone them.

I would germinate as much seeds as I could 20/4.
If you don´t see signs of flowering around week 3 (21/28 days)
take them away and germinate more.

, good luck with your projects.

 

[Mikenite69]

That is also what I have heard that if you use a non auto male on autoflowers 25% of the population would autoflower. I have crossed a regular male with a auto female and grew out 1 plant so far and it looks normal. Now I put this thing into flower and try to put it back into veg and this thing just kept wanting to flower.

I think you would have a better chance if you used a true auto male to make a auto strain like a lowryder or some actual true rudralis plant.

I am gonna try to do this also but you have to time it right or hope that the auto male dumps a lot of pollen that you can collect and save. Maybe I'll try to do a forum cut gsc auto or a gorilla glue auto flowering version. Lol

 

[DropDropDrop]

You wont see autos in the first generation when crossing non-auto plant and auto. If you make seeds from the ones you now have you will see some percentage of autoplants. Auto gene is said to be recessive.

 

[Betterhaff]

You wont see autos in the first generation when crossing non-auto plant and auto. If you make seeds from the ones you now have you will see some percentage of autoplants. Auto gene is said to be recessive.

You then cross the autoflowering plants from that generation, most of that progeny will be auto.

 

[MJPassion]

F1= normal daylength flowering and a few plants that will flower w nearly any reduction in photoperiod.

F2=25% of plants will autoflower.

F3 selections, from F2, & beyond are critical for maintaining the auto trait.
True autoflowering plants must be used for the trait to breed true in future generations.

The guy from Nirvana is full of crap, if he did in fact say that normal x auto = any% auto.

Research and study mendelian math. It's pretty simple once it's figuref out.
But...
As was also mentioned, mendelian math, is not always 100% true. Especially when dealing with polyhybrid strains.

 

[icon]

i have a question too if you dont mind, do you have to select the auto flowering plants only from each generation?
example grow f1's (normal x auto) use the phenos that only auto to make f2's, then grow out the f2's & do the same to make the f3's only using the phenos that auto from each generation?

 

[Thule]

It depends a lot on what your crossing the auto with. F1 generation can be part autoflowering when the non auto part is an early flowering outdoor strain.

 

[canned abyss1]

In the f1s they will be normal in the f2s they will auto in approx. 25% of plants, select the auto plants you want to use and cross them, the f3s will have a higher % of auto plants than the f2's, select the auto plants that you want to use and cross them, the f4s should be all auto. Stabilize for the traits you want over the next few generations.

 

[MJPassion]

i have a question too if you dont mind, do you have to select the auto flowering plants only from each generation?
example grow f1's (normal x auto) use the phenos that only auto to make f2's, then grow out the f2's & do the same to make the f3's only using the phenos that auto from each generation?

Yes, you will have to choose the auto flowering plants in order to stablize the line to that trait. Same as selecting for any other trait.



There will be zero auto flowering plants in the F1 generation when a normal photoperiod plant is breed with an auto.

Auto genes, recessive, will be masked by photo period, dominant, genes every single time they combine together... The result could be a plant that flowers with the slighst tweak to photoperiod, however, none will auto.

Iranian Indica comes to mind...
A true auto flowering plant cannot be kept as a clone like the above mentioned strain. They complete scenescence and die. They are pure annuals while other cannabis varieties could potentially grow like a perennial, coming back year after year. Not that I've seen this happen in nature but we can reveg plants which is essentially what a perennial does.

 

[MJPassion]

OO,
Do you happen to have info on this Finola you keep refering to? From what I've seen so far it seems to be a type of hemp.

TY

 

[Only Ornamental]

OO,
Do you happen to have info on this Finola you keep refering to? From what I've seen so far it seems to be a type of hemp.

TY

It is hemp, click on the link in my sig and also have a look here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=271195 Sorry, can't use links either ;( .