i dont thin this is gonna end well.
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martial law in nevada!
- Thread starter trichrider
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Oy vey... lot of shit being slung around in here... time for the clean up crew? Or is it ready for the bin yet? Please advise... I would not want anyone to miss out on a chance to be insulting, rude or opinionated...LOL! You guys are having too much fun, right?
Oh, I don't know. It seems pretty valuable to know who thinks that, of all the options available to the government in this case, it is appropriate for them to use a couple of hundred armed LEO's to help kill a man's cattle, have snipers stationed all over the place, and thump the shit out of some people exercising their first amendment rights. It's been quite interesting.
I'm not a grammar nazi by any means, but you're killing me man.Wait a minute y'all lumping me in with Stoner4? Thanks for the complement!!!!!!!!
It's hard to take someone seriously when they consistently misspell simple words and make unintelligible statements.
As far as Bundy. Grazing fees were decreed by executive order from a fascist President. I can't believe anyone thinks this is legitimate. It's theft.
It's law they say. Who gives a fuck about the law? Just because it's law doesn't mean it's right or moral.
Jim Crow Laws were law until the people rose up and said fuck that. Getting thrown into a cage for smoking a plant is the law. The people are rising up state by state and saying, "fuck your laws."
The Federal Gangster Government obeys no laws. Make it up as they go. Illegal wars. Fine. Drop drones on American citizens, fine. Overt cronyism and quid pro quo? Everywhere you look.
Bailout the elites after they go broke from making bad bets with all the money they've stole from the lower classes fine. Does anyone go to jail? Fuck no. Why? As per Holder, jailing those responsible could cause "financial instability." So there is the Too Big Too Jail Class, but fuck the common man. It's a goddamn Banana Republic.
Fuck all that nonsense.
This incident was but a peep into the future. Brother will be pitted against brother. As is happening all across the globe the tide of revolution against the parasitic elites is coming to our shores. Society will continue to polarize and fracture. Loyalist or revolutionary will become the binary choice.
here's the link for anyone so inclined to viddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwALTdrMZ8&feature=youtu.be
I heard one mans rant of the situation & RANT he did, he shouted @ me the entire time. OK, that aside he showed proof of nothing, didn't quote any actual dates or figures involved, no statutes, he really only had an opinion of the matter.
and sorry, but I understood (from a different perspective however) long ago everything he said, he's just a Bundy talking head to me. Again, it's fine to be outraged if you are so inclined, just like that narrator was, damn he kept screaming as if he believed volume equaled truth.
He claims the increased grazing fees were the reason Bundy's fellow ranchers were "regulated right out of their industry." (<--- an exaggeration) I think many of them moved onto less controversial BLM lands farther away, so a more accurate statement might be that they were "regulated right off that land." I don't think the BLM made those ranchers give up ranching, just their use of that land.
I'm not sure increased fees made those other ranchers move, I think it was the fact that by '98 it was all over anyway. I've not seen nor heard of any actual and accurate figures (by anyone) of an increase of those fees. We've seen the per cow fee of $1.35 but no mention as to whether this reflects the original fee or represents the increased fees. and how much did they go up by?
and if the BLM had increased costs in monitoring land used by cattle & occupied by an endangered species then it makes sense that fees go up as compensation, and again, if the govt determines there's a better use for that land it will do what it wants including moving out long standing lease holders.
this guy in the video expects anyone watching to take his word for it, he offered nothing new in the way of proof of fraud by the govt, same old story told in his outraged style.......
btw, it didn't go un-noticed by me that he didn't even mention Bundy or the incident until a full four minutes of the seven minute video had passed, you can bet this guy likes to hear himself talk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwALTdrMZ8&feature=youtu.be
I heard one mans rant of the situation & RANT he did, he shouted @ me the entire time. OK, that aside he showed proof of nothing, didn't quote any actual dates or figures involved, no statutes, he really only had an opinion of the matter.
and sorry, but I understood (from a different perspective however) long ago everything he said, he's just a Bundy talking head to me. Again, it's fine to be outraged if you are so inclined, just like that narrator was, damn he kept screaming as if he believed volume equaled truth.
He claims the increased grazing fees were the reason Bundy's fellow ranchers were "regulated right out of their industry." (<--- an exaggeration) I think many of them moved onto less controversial BLM lands farther away, so a more accurate statement might be that they were "regulated right off that land." I don't think the BLM made those ranchers give up ranching, just their use of that land.
I'm not sure increased fees made those other ranchers move, I think it was the fact that by '98 it was all over anyway. I've not seen nor heard of any actual and accurate figures (by anyone) of an increase of those fees. We've seen the per cow fee of $1.35 but no mention as to whether this reflects the original fee or represents the increased fees. and how much did they go up by?
and if the BLM had increased costs in monitoring land used by cattle & occupied by an endangered species then it makes sense that fees go up as compensation, and again, if the govt determines there's a better use for that land it will do what it wants including moving out long standing lease holders.
this guy in the video expects anyone watching to take his word for it, he offered nothing new in the way of proof of fraud by the govt, same old story told in his outraged style.......
btw, it didn't go un-noticed by me that he didn't even mention Bundy or the incident until a full four minutes of the seven minute video had passed, you can bet this guy likes to hear himself talk.
To me, the crux of the whole thing is not the legality of Bundy's actions, or the lack thereof. It is the way that the government overstepped the bounds of reason and decided to go with the nuclear option. They have now stepped back and done what they should have in the first place.
For those of you that seem incapable of seeing the parallels between this situation and our own, let me help you a bit.
1) The Bundy family had been lawfully using that range for right at 100 years prior to the BLM being established. Sounds a bit similar to the back story on mj.
2) The BLM's original charter was to help ranchers, and they have gradually morphed things around to the point where they now can control federal, state, or personal property. They make their own rules, absent of lawful process. They now have armed agents. They hold their own hearings. They control every aspect of the process. Gee, who does this sound like?
3) They came into this fiasco with a $3.3 million dollar budget in mind. The actual owed fees are, minus the goofy math (hmmmm, sound familiar?), right at $350,000. So they were willing to spend 10 times the amount of money owed to mitigate the problem.
4) The head of the Nevada branch of the BLM is Harry Reid's old running buddy. Reid's kid is the attorney for the solar group that has designs on that same land. Reid is being investigated for his ties to gigantic grants to the Nevada solar industry. Reid announced today that this is not over. Sound anything like DuPont & Hearst?
5) The tortoise bullshit reeks to high heaven. The tortoises have been co-existing with the cattle for just shy of 150 years with no problem. Suddenly, they have to be protected from the cattle. Of course, the BLM is actually directly responsible for the largest kill-off of the tortoises to date as a result of their misguided efforts. Oh, and they plan on killing the majority of the remaining tortoises off because their budget has been cut and obviously the tortoise is incapable of living without their enlightened help.
So, the Feds settle on the obvious solution of doing the equivalent of kicking your family's door in, shooting your dog, confiscating your possessions, and weighing all of your plants green, with the pots and dirt.
And a few of you guys support what has happened wholeheartedly because this is "big business" (it can actually support about 5 people maintaining a pretty spartan lifestyle), and Bundy is a politically conservative Mormon.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
For those of you that seem incapable of seeing the parallels between this situation and our own, let me help you a bit.
1) The Bundy family had been lawfully using that range for right at 100 years prior to the BLM being established. Sounds a bit similar to the back story on mj.
2) The BLM's original charter was to help ranchers, and they have gradually morphed things around to the point where they now can control federal, state, or personal property. They make their own rules, absent of lawful process. They now have armed agents. They hold their own hearings. They control every aspect of the process. Gee, who does this sound like?
3) They came into this fiasco with a $3.3 million dollar budget in mind. The actual owed fees are, minus the goofy math (hmmmm, sound familiar?), right at $350,000. So they were willing to spend 10 times the amount of money owed to mitigate the problem.
4) The head of the Nevada branch of the BLM is Harry Reid's old running buddy. Reid's kid is the attorney for the solar group that has designs on that same land. Reid is being investigated for his ties to gigantic grants to the Nevada solar industry. Reid announced today that this is not over. Sound anything like DuPont & Hearst?
5) The tortoise bullshit reeks to high heaven. The tortoises have been co-existing with the cattle for just shy of 150 years with no problem. Suddenly, they have to be protected from the cattle. Of course, the BLM is actually directly responsible for the largest kill-off of the tortoises to date as a result of their misguided efforts. Oh, and they plan on killing the majority of the remaining tortoises off because their budget has been cut and obviously the tortoise is incapable of living without their enlightened help.
So, the Feds settle on the obvious solution of doing the equivalent of kicking your family's door in, shooting your dog, confiscating your possessions, and weighing all of your plants green, with the pots and dirt.
And a few of you guys support what has happened wholeheartedly because this is "big business" (it can actually support about 5 people maintaining a pretty spartan lifestyle), and Bundy is a politically conservative Mormon.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
That about sums it up !
I like it when people stand up and not just take it....they had a crew ready to fight for what they believe in,,,, I hope it all gets worked out peacefully,,,might be some tough steaks anyhow with all that stress on the cows....happy cows taste better
Can´t we all be polite and respectful to the ones we don´t agree with?!
Can´t we all be polite and respectful to the ones we don´t agree with?!
Happy Tuesday guys!
I´d love us to be able to stick with the subject without having to go into personal attacks or daft generalizations. Not sure if that´s possible but i dream of that day
There are some very interesting points being made from both sides of the issue and i think that this is Democracy in action and one thing that i seem to be missing in all this is the shear impact of a Federative rule over State rules. Isn´t it step back in the Democratic process? Or is it the way forward? Is the moto "The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" is getting a new meaning?
This is a 20min vid, no shouting or emotional content, even if he abuses of irony
on the subject that helped me out to gather some more info. But please don´t take his words for granted, check his facts and debunk him if possible.
[youtube]/GQb0qJLhea8[/youtube]
Take it easy and don´t forget to be kind to real people instead of institutions
Can´t we all be polite and respectful to the ones we don´t agree with?!
Happy Tuesday guys!
I´d love us to be able to stick with the subject without having to go into personal attacks or daft generalizations. Not sure if that´s possible but i dream of that day
There are some very interesting points being made from both sides of the issue and i think that this is Democracy in action and one thing that i seem to be missing in all this is the shear impact of a Federative rule over State rules. Isn´t it step back in the Democratic process? Or is it the way forward? Is the moto "The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" is getting a new meaning?
This is a 20min vid, no shouting or emotional content, even if he abuses of irony
on the subject that helped me out to gather some more info. But please don´t take his words for granted, check his facts and debunk him if possible.[youtube]/GQb0qJLhea8[/youtube]
Take it easy and don´t forget to be kind to real people instead of institutions
This is a 20min vid, no shouting or emotional content, even if he abuses of irony
[youtube]/GQb0qJLhea8[/youtube]
Take it easy and don´t forget to be kind to real people instead of institutions
"Political power is more addictive than cocaine" There you go.
He kinda reminds me of the Architect in the Matrix.
Well, at least by quoting someone else it's an intelligible statement. Even if when taken into context it doesn't make much sense. This statement is thrown around a lot as a blanket argument for those who really have no other argument, but want to throw down some pseudo-intellectual BS. Quoted from a comedian no less (originally attributed to Daniel Moynihan).
It's really a mindless argument in the poli-science/quantum physics scholastic circle because it can be relative to one's assumptions, philosophy, historiography, perception, etc. Many times the "facts" are debatable. Science ebb and flows as facts, or what are perceived as facts at the time, change.
I don't see a lot of people debating the "facts" of this case. They are pretty straightforward. Rather the debate is focused on the ethical and philosophical questions surrounding the "facts."
Democracy doesn't give a shit what "you" think either. Unless you are one of the two wolves asking the one lamb what's for dinner (ie. it only cares what the mob thinks, which is why a "democracy" was considered the worst form of government by the founders of our, now dead, Republic).
It's really a mindless argument in the poli-science/quantum physics scholastic circle because it can be relative to one's assumptions, philosophy, historiography, perception, etc. Many times the "facts" are debatable. Science ebb and flows as facts, or what are perceived as facts at the time, change.
I don't see a lot of people debating the "facts" of this case. They are pretty straightforward. Rather the debate is focused on the ethical and philosophical questions surrounding the "facts."
Democracy doesn't give a shit what "you" think either. Unless you are one of the two wolves asking the one lamb what's for dinner (ie. it only cares what the mob thinks, which is why a "democracy" was considered the worst form of government by the founders of our, now dead, Republic).
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