What caused this?

[Bud Green]

Well, I had some major, baby bushes that were looking SO beautiful. They were started indoors and were seedlings at beginning of Feb..They were being prepped to go outside for good at first of May...Everything was going so well, then this..

I am not a beginner, but I have never seen this before.
I am almost 100% sure it was not any kind of deficiency.

Was this caused by too much water retention in the container..

I really can't figure it out.. Is there any saving them?

 

[Dropped Cat]

Curious myself. Hope it's not bugs.

More posts by better growers than me to follow.

 

[lost in a sea]

And your sure that the ec and pH is probably right Bud?

what would you say is the most obviously wrong thing about them in person?

the pics make it harder to see which part of the plants are the worst affected. to me the tips look really unhappy, the leaves look very dark and the stems are very purple. One of them the leaves are a bit too lime/yellow.. I can only think too much nites Bud, or the wrong NPK ratio for whatever reason.

 

[Ez Rider]

Looks like it could be broad/cyclamen mites. I hope to god not, for your sake. Get a good scope and check the upper leaves for eggs. There's a sticky on broad mites in the infirmary.

 

[Bud Green]

DC,, thanks but it's definitely not bugs of any kind.

Lost, the curly leaves began just at the growth tips and I thought perhaps it was the high nutrients in my soil.. It progressed to ALL growth throughout the plant.

The soil is 100% organic, made of 50% native soil, 40% composted cow and horse manure and about 10% peat moss, leaf mold I gathered from the woods and compost I made....Yes it is very rich, but Ive never seen anything burn in cow or horse manure..
When you say " I can only think too much nites", do you mean too much NUTES, or too much NITROGEN? The soil is rich, but it's the same thing in my new veggie garden and flower beds, and they are all doing "Gangbusters"...I'm thinking, maybe in the containers, it is too dense and holding too much water and not draining properly?

Thanks Ez, you were typing whan I was,,, it is definitely NOT not mites or bugs...

 

[lost in a sea]

yeah i meant too much nitrogen, veggies are a lot more nitrogen hungry/resistant so that wouldn't rule that out for me..

doesn't look like over watering (lack of drainage) or root rot but it's hard to say.

could you get a closer picture of the tips?

 

[Redbuddz]

well you clearly do have some major issues. But the question is why? Some good news for you is you do seem to have time to get them healthy for your grow. NPK should not be an issue if you're using your fertilizer properly. What I notice you have many leaves with only 3 and 5 blades which is not good. You mentioned cow manure and horse manure. I know cow manure is very good but typically cow manure needs to be added a week or two prior to planting outdoors, tilled in and watered as to allow for breakdown. Horse manure is typically very bad for plants unless it is properly aged for at least a year or so and even then it's still very " hot". I think you're having PH issues with your soil mixture. I would suggest doing a serious rinse and removal of as much of soil as you can do and get yourself some standard potting soil or garden soil that has NO fertilizer in it. Having no fertilizer in the soil is key cause you can then control the nutes that your giving your plant thus eliminating deficiencies and over fertilizing if you follow the right feeding schedule.

I'm no expert but I do know the horse manure is NG and I also know that rinsing and repotting with new soil is likely your best bet

 

[Bud Green]

I don't have a great camera.. Can you see what you were looking for here?
I was not aware that my veggies would use more N than my girls?!?
We are having a very late season frost tonite, so they are back inside. Usually because of length of daylight at 36N lattitude, I wait until May 1 to put them outside with no supplemental hours of artificial light..But my plan is to put them in the outdoor holes ASAP to see if they recover..

 

[Bud Green]

Redbudz: They are currently in 6 gallon containers...
The outdoor holes were mixed with the manure and everything back in October and have been sitting over the winter waiting...The soil in the containers was taken from the outdoor holes about 6 weeks ago...

 

[mrbean420]

could be a magnesium deficiency..try epson salt

 

[dabking]

Get a soil test kit to get an idea of what condition your soil is in. But it looks to be a ph/ nutes lockout causing the stress and lack of water uptake. The curling up on the edges is from the lack of oxygen to the roots or rapid changes in humidity. Less finger growth, purple stem, wrong npk. Flush them out and feed with a light tea and add bennies. You should be back in a week to two

 

[lost in a sea]

yeah i agree with dabking i think bud

 

[dabking]

You may also want to check your soil for any aphids or nematodes. Nematodes can be a bastard to fight.

 

[Bud Green]

dabking:

Thanks for your input..I'm kind of thinking the lack of oxygen to the roots may be the first and main cause.

The plants were started in a light and fluffy potting mix I make, but as I transplanted up to larger containers, I was using my outdoor soil mix.. The plants shown in the pics are in 6 or 7 gallon burlap bags, sitting in old fashioned plastic "milk crates" for support..
It appears that, even tho the soil is loose in the outdoor holes, when I put it in the 3 gallon pots and then in the 6 gallon bags, that it compacted pretty tightly and got pretty dense.. Perhaps this is what is cutting off the oxygen to the roots?

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Hey B...Doesnt look to me like soil def, bugs or high tech issues. Also, if the soil were too tightly compacted, the whole plant would simply begin to wilt from lack of water to the lower container area. An immediate and obvious problem. Overwatering brings on more of a overall droopy or "I feel like shit" look. Judging by your pics, my guess would be nothing more than simple sun burn. Are the plants getting full sun all day? If so, did you "harden" the plants off before putting outside full time? Even at this time of year, young plants can suffer leaf burn by too much direct sun right off. (larger leaves turning white and new leaves looking "cooked" are a sure indication of sun burn.)

Where I live, right now we are having a fairly abnormal warm spell for spring time (80 degree hi's). If I were to move young plants out now, I would avoid all day sun exposure. I would either shade them from afternoon sun using shade cloth or place them in an area where they would get morning sun but not afternoon sun for at least a week, until "hardened off".......CC

 

[lost in a sea]

dabking:

Thanks for your input..I'm kind of thinking the lack of oxygen to the roots may be the first and main cause.

The plants were started in a light and fluffy potting mix I make, but as I transplanted up to larger containers, I was using my outdoor soil mix.. The plants shown in the pics are in 6 or 7 gallon burlap bags, sitting in old fashioned plastic "milk crates" for support..
It appears that, even tho the soil is loose in the outdoor holes, when I put it in the 3 gallon pots and then in the 6 gallon bags, that it compacted pretty tightly and got pretty dense.. Perhaps this is what is cutting off the oxygen to the roots?

I can't imagine that is the problem Bud, 6 gallon pots aren't that big that it could cause a lack of oxygen through compacting the soil, especially if it was a fluffy mix, but if it were causing the plants to sit in more water than they should for some reason and the soil was turning anaerobic then that could make them look quite sad bud i still feel i would look different to your girls.

it could also like cowboy says be a heat spike/sun burn issue.. or a combination of a couple things that just happen to be affecting them at once.

 

[Hank Hemp]

Did you use any perlite in your soil mix?

 

[Redbuddz]

Redbudz: They are currently in 6 gallon containers...
The outdoor holes were mixed with the manure and everything back in October and have been sitting over the winter waiting...The soil in the containers was taken from the outdoor holes about 6 weeks ago...

Was that fresh horse manure you used? Horse manure needs to be composted for like a year. If you added it fresh back in October you might think it had enough time but frozen earth doesn't really breakdown/compost.

 

[Redbuddz]

I would repot with as much new soil as possible. Don't get involved in trying to guess what's wrong with your soil and start fresh. The plants will love it

 

[Redbuddz]

Where's the updates BudGreen?