Male influence on females

[jackel]

So I had an interesting discussion with a breeder, and the topic of keeping a male in the garden (discarding before pollination). The theory was that female plants can pickup "pheromones" from the male, therefore making the ladies grow faster and more vigorous, to compete for the male pollen.
I have no experience in this, just curious what you all may think of this kind of bizarre idea. I know some species of shellfish and other fish can change their sex based on the surrounding sex population, so I suppose it's possible. What say you?

 

[Chimera]

ahembullshitcoughcough

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have not ever seen it and I do grow a lot from regular seed so 1/2 are males.
I guess you could make two or more of the same female clones and take half and grow exposed to males and the other half not and see if any differences in yield or potency or maturation.
I am sure this is someone's fantasy like that plants produce more resin if sex starved because they want to get any pollen in the air.
-SamS

 

[Pantagruelion]

Sound like a fantasy. Fairly easy trial to run, as Sam stated. I can think of a thousand more worthwhile experiments. Run a plant seedling next to its mother and see if it grows more bratlike in structure....

 

[Relentless]

never seen anything like that.. i will say ive had more males pop up from seeds with having a ton of females surrounding them.. maybe they are more likely to become male if surrounded by females.

 

[Dropped Cat]

Interesting thread.

On a related note, the more I strut around the house naked the less
my wife wants to have sex with me.

Especially when we have company. Go figure.

 

[bluntmassa]

Lol, Let me guess you heard it from Subfool oops I mean Subcool? He did say it for sure but he doesn't actually breed talks like he does he'll even quote things from DJ Short's book too make you believe he knows his shit.

 

[tokersmoke]

Id say its possible..There are things we do not yet know about our favorite plant.

Dropped im still laughing

 

[Only Ornamental]

...The theory was that female plants can pickup "pheromones" from the male, therefore making the ladies grow faster and more vigorous, to compete for the male pollen...

Completely ridiculous under a (bio-)logical point of view:
A) Plants don't have pheromones or the flora's counterpart; they can't need these because they don't have sex with each other but rely on the 'postman' strategy to get 'pregnant'
B) Cannabis depends on wind-pollination and has adapted to an environment where the next male (or female) may be hundreds of kilometres away
C) If the female would grow faster and more vigorous due to competition, it would be caused by sensing a female, not a male
D) Logic dictates that having a male close by would allow the female to remain small (because pollination is guaranteed) and use its energy for all the seeds to come
E) Every plant tries to compete for light, nutrients, water and pollen (or pollinating insects)... that's life
F) If female cannabis plants really were in such an urge to get their pistils on some pollen, hermaphrodites would be the logic, first, and easiest solution (following a Darwinistic model)

 

[generalgrievous]

..popping seeds while having a male on the veg table with them gives me 9:1 female/male ..without that male on the table .. the ratio is a typical 1:1, or slightly higher female to male. .
.. That being said .. They obviously know/sense the other plants in their vicinity.. And know what sex they are..
.. Sampson Simpson ..I stick by my story...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Completely ridiculous under a (bio-)logical point of view:
A) Plants don't have pheromones or the flora's counterpart; they can't need these because they don't have sex with each other but rely on the 'postman' strategy to get 'pregnant'

PLANTS DON'T HAVE PHEROMONES?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16492479

B) Cannabis depends on wind-pollination and has adapted to an environment where the next male (or female) may be hundreds of kilometres away

THE JIH ADVISES THAT 5 KM IS GOOD TO KEEP DIFFERENT CANNABIS VARIETIES PURE.
I KNOW THERE ARE NEWS ARTICLES ABOUT HUNDREDS OF MILES BUT THAT TAKES THOUSAND OR MILLIONS OF MALE PLANTS TO GET JUST A FEW GRAINS OF POLLEN SO FAR, AS WELL AS VERY STRONG WINDS. THE POLLEN MAY BE DEAD IN FACT, DRIED OUT OR SPROUTED AND DEAD.
Journal of Industrial Hemp
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J237v08n02_03#preview
Volume 8, Issue 2, 2003
A Preliminary Study of Pollen Dispersal in Cannabis sativa in Relation to Wind Direction
Ernest Small & Tanya Antlea
pages 37-50

-SAMS

C) If the female would grow faster and more vigorous due to competition, it would be caused by sensing a female, not a male
D) Logic dictates that having a male close by would allow the female to remain small (because pollination is guaranteed) and use its energy for all the seeds to come
E) Every plant tries to compete for light, nutrients, water and pollen (or pollinating insects)... that's life
F) If female cannabis plants really were in such an urge to get their pistils on some pollen, hermaphrodites would be the logic, first, and easiest solution (following a Darwinistic model)

-SamS

 

[TheRealHash]

..popping seeds while having a male on the veg table with them gives me 9:1 female/male ..without that male on the table .. the ratio is a typical 1:1, or slightly higher female to male. .
.. That being said .. They obviously know/sense the other plants in their vicinity.. And know what sex they are..
.. Sampson Simpson ..I stick by my story...

I thought having a couple males around was increasing increasing my % of females too but..

I've germinated many many thousands of seeds in my day and all the regular seeds statistically approach 50/50 males:females the more seeds you grow. When you grow smaller lots you 'think' you see things that you assume make the gender lean towards one direction or another, but as the population size grows the apparent 'effect' disappears.

 

[Asche]

So I had an interesting discussion with a breeder, and the topic of keeping a male in the garden (discarding before pollination). The theory was that female plants can pickup "pheromones" from the male, therefore making the ladies grow faster and more vigorous, to compete for the male pollen.
I have no experience in this, just curious what you all may think of this kind of bizarre idea. I know some species of shellfish and other fish can change their sex based on the surrounding sex population, so I suppose it's possible. What say you?

acacia has a certain way to communicate
through chemical changes with other trees of its kind
once it gets eaten by giraffes to warn others
which then emit a certain chemical compound
which makes the leafs go more bitter...

thats just an example on how nature can adapt.
and react according to its surroundings.

 

[Spider Crab]

Yeah, plants with a lot of pistils are good because the red hairs are what hold all of the potency.......

That's what i was told anyway.

Also, Cauliflower is actually a superior life form than humans, it is similar to a super brain that grows from the ground.
Once i was in my garden and i 'tapped into' the cauliflowers 'frequency' and it put those visions in my mind.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Right, some plants produce 'animal' phermonones to lure insects to their flowers but we are talking about pheromones in the proper sense (i.e. sensed by the same species). The insects perceive them as insect pheromones whereas the plants don't react to them. That's why I was talking about pheromone equivalent. But you're still right; some algae use pheromone-like substances to guide the two gametes together.
Thanks for the link, just have no access to the journal ;( .

I also have the impression that the long distance pollen usually looses viability but even 5 km won't change my statement.

-SamS

 

[Asche]

and attraction is good
thats what nature wants

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Right, some plants produce 'animal' phermonones to lure insects to their flowers but we are talking about pheromones in the proper sense (i.e. sensed by the same species). The insects perceive them as insect pheromones whereas the plants don't react to them. That's why I was talking about pheromone equivalent. But you're still right; some algae use pheromone-like substances to guide the two gametes together.
Thanks for the link, just have no access to the journal ;( .

I also have the impression that the long distance pollen usually looses viability but even 5 km won't change my statement.

"B) Cannabis depends on wind-pollination and has adapted to an environment where the next male (or female) may be hundreds of kilometres away"

I guess I was trying to point out that female plant waiting for pollen from hundreds of miles away would die a virgin, not gonna happen.
Same with a male trying to pollinate a female hundreds of miles away, it is not gonna happen, it is not the way it happens, ever. A few miles, maybe yes. If pollen did travel hundreds of miles and still be viable it would make Cannabis breeding outdoors almost impossible.

About the pheromones, I found a bunch that plants make mostly, to effect insects, some to communicate with other plants of the same species that warn of attack by predators, and get the surround plants to alter their behavior or produce more compounds to protect themselves. Plants produce plant hormones for plant use.
You can send the Author a request for an off-print of the article, that sometimes works.
-SamS

 

[artfog]

But the more you are not obvious about the subject the more a fantasy ensues, still for this process to begin you have to be present. Who knows about plants

 

[JointOperation]

u know i heard this too. i read it somewhere in research paperwork i was going threw from the uncle who started me on this path.. he was saying.. that keeping males in the rooms made his plants more resiny looked like his calyxs swelled up bigger too he said.. but wat he was doing was.. 8 males.. 1 male every 7 days.. then chop the one thats been in there longest as u put the next one in.. making males be there the entire flower period..

me personally i wouldnt chance it. but i would love to see some research being done.. when i have access to labs in my state. i will try it with my 400w i dont use anymore.. ill have it on a flip flop. .n see what happens.. maybe.. if i see more people saying this mite be true. ill try it. if its bunk i wont.

 

[purple_man]

looking forward to arjans "male spray" making your females more resiny and bulk

blessss