Look at the ongoing right wing experiment in Canada. There is an article kicking around about one of their big legal weed growing corporations compared to a small medical producer forced to pull his plants. The big corporation says its cost of production is $7 a gram I think. The little guy says his production cost is about $1 a gram for high grade medical. Seems kind of obvious where to get the best deal but the government is trying to force everyone to go corporate. Will they succeed?
What will happen to small operations after legalization?
- Thread starter El Jefe
- Start date
I have worked on Cannabis reform for the last 49 years since I participated in my first Cannabis protest in Los Angeles in 1965, I am well aware of the need for general drug reform, I mean if we can send Betty Ford to the Long Beach Naval Hospital’s drug and alcohol rehabilitation program clinic for alcohol and prescription drug abuse, while we send people that use coke or smack or meth or Cannabis or acid, etc. to jail? Don't they just need help also in the case of the hard drugs?
You want decriminalization, and unregulated, but be honest will that include the right for anyone to produced unregulated, and maybe unsafe if treated with nasty chemicals, Cannabis to sell on the black market?
Who will stop people from doing this? As for perpetuating the drug war I am pretty sure decriminalized Cannabis will keep it much like it is which is a drug war on Cannabis.
-SamS
my rant was not an endosrement of corprate dominance. no idont think they do things based on whats good for us but rather what they can convince us is best and they can certainly do it cheaper than any of us. people follow what they are told is best and there are too many small growers out of work that will be competing for the very small number of folks willing to pay the much higher cost of truely cottage industry scale herb. i think people are overestimating the average joes taste asn available budget for high end herb. itll high end enough for daily consumption at low price with the occasional splurge on fine farmers market boutique. corporations will dominate this market. you can grow tobacco and brew beer much cheaper than store bought by a huge leap, how many people buy thos products from home based producers or even produce it that matter. these companies will fine tune quality to meet profits afterthey have trained americans to accept their product and to buy it in stores from familiar brand names theyve been brainwashed into recognizing as high quality. i agree with the sentiment that these companies are evil and give less than a fuck about the consumer. they are very good at marketing and production efficiency at whatever quality level it takes to attract consumers. sorry if i was being a bit of a troll but i think people are delusional if they dont see this as the end of the herb economy as a purely cottage industry. youll be very lucky and to get a slice of the access to the saturated small scale market that is a very small portion of the overall market.
NO PROBLEM, THE BIGGEST ORGANIC GROWER IN THE USA, WITH 30,000 ACRES, EARTHBOUND FARM, RECENTLY SOLD TO WHITEWAVE FOODS, A BIG BIZ.
I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE DUMB, I THINKS MOST AMERICANS SHOPPERS ARE.
TRY AND REMEMBER I HAVE GROWN A LOT OF MY OWN FOOD BIODYNAMICLY, ORGANICALLY, FOR THE LAST 40+ YEARS, I BELIEVE IN IT. THAT SAID AMERICANS MAKE AND BUY MORE AND MORE CRAP EVERY YEAR. IT IS NOT GETTING BETTER, WISE UP.
-SamS
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Let me refine this a bit, its not stupidity but ignorance, some of which is influenced by big business and big government
such as the CEOs of the country's 7 largest tobacco companies, known as "The Seven Dwarves", perjure themselves before congress
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQUNk5meJHs
many many people are "wired" to appreciate and respect the opinion of those with stature
I learned how to drive in my mom's Morgan 4 seat with an oak chassis and a hand crank to start the engine if needed, just be careful and get your hand out of the way when it does starts.
They only make 700 cars a year, so you'll need to wait to get one, and it will have a FORD engine from big biz auto.
What make computer do you own?
-SamS
A man can dream can't he Sam?
Without hope what the fuck is there.
Without hope what the fuck is there.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR FEELINGS, BUT I SEE IT AS A PROTECTED MONOPOLY, BECAUSE OF THE ILLEGALITY. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE PROFITED FOR WAY TOO LONG, MANY FRIENDS INCLUDED.
I WANT IT TAXED AND REGULATED, YOU DO NOT, I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY.
LEY ME ASK YOU, WHO COMES FIRST, THE GROWERS OR THE PLANT?
I KNOW THAT TO KEEP IT ILLEGAL IS BEST FOR GROWERS THAT MAKE THEIR INCOME FROM GROWING CANNABIS, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT IS BEST FOR CANNABIS TO BE ILLEGAL?
-SamS
I agree, my hope and dream for the last 49 years was to see Cannabis taxed and regulated, and normalized. Like everything else. Maybe that is because I have had to many friends in to many prisons for to many years, and decriminalization would only help the smokers, not the jokers, wholesalers, retailers, or growers if they catch you selling.
The prohibition of Cannabis has to end, the sooner the better.
Maybe i have seen the damage caused to Cannabis and the Cannabis drug gene pool by LEO's worldwide because Cannabis is illegal.
I will continue to work for tax and regulation until legal worldwide.
Decriminalized and unregulated is not enough for me, I am not happy with crumbs, I want it all, the sooner the better.
-SamS
Sam this will be my last post in this thread. I am not talking about legal vs illegal.
I am talking about freedom. Freedom to grow and use without strings attached. I think anyone should be able to grow as much cannabis as they want, without fear or regulation.
Illegality/legality is one man imposing his moral code on to the masses. I do not believe any man has the authority to tell another man what to do, use or how to make his way in the world. I also don't think one man or group should control everything.
I am not a religious man but I think the best set of rules came from the bible, the basic rules to live a civilized life are right there in the 10 commandments.
Aside from those rules it is just about authority, control and the hoarding of wealth. I am a free human, they can imprison my body but not my mind.
I am talking about freedom. Freedom to grow and use without strings attached. I think anyone should be able to grow as much cannabis as they want, without fear or regulation.
Illegality/legality is one man imposing his moral code on to the masses. I do not believe any man has the authority to tell another man what to do, use or how to make his way in the world. I also don't think one man or group should control everything.
I am not a religious man but I think the best set of rules came from the bible, the basic rules to live a civilized life are right there in the 10 commandments.
Aside from those rules it is just about authority, control and the hoarding of wealth. I am a free human, they can imprison my body but not my mind.
Cannabis has always told me that plants should be free, that none of mans profane laws should control them, monetarily and literally free from the constraints of mans twisted laws. That is the message of freedom that got me growing cannabis in the first place and was the philosophy that was diluted throughout the community i respected so much and that helped attain the level of freedom i feel i have today.
big biz is the anti thesis of cannabis's whole philosophy to me.
You think you can have a government/corporate designed so called "capitalist" system like that in america and get what you want out of cannabis legalization, that is a complete joke.. it is a oxymoron,, especially when as you said it's getting worse Sam ???
This turns my head upside down,, it's not real..
ganja + big business = good !?!?!???
please god no.. more taxes to go to the pentagon to turn into munitions contracts to blow muslims up and drone the third world, including america,, brilliant when all the dipshits are paying their taxes for their state sanctioned genetically engineered cannabis won't we all be clever then for not speaking out and thinking we can have it all without doing anything, talk about following the carrot.
big biz is the anti thesis of cannabis's whole philosophy to me.
You think you can have a government/corporate designed so called "capitalist" system like that in america and get what you want out of cannabis legalization, that is a complete joke.. it is a oxymoron,, especially when as you said it's getting worse Sam ???
This turns my head upside down,, it's not real..
ganja + big business = good !?!?!???
please god no.. more taxes to go to the pentagon to turn into munitions contracts to blow muslims up and drone the third world, including america,, brilliant when all the dipshits are paying their taxes for their state sanctioned genetically engineered cannabis won't we all be clever then for not speaking out and thinking we can have it all without doing anything, talk about following the carrot.
C
CaliGabe
True that yet I do feel that individual growers will have a tough time down the road. I think many that wait until they see how the game will change without being positioned already will miss the boat.
Right now helping a new friend set up a CO2 extraction facility. I think that's something that will be OK regardless of how things go in Cali. There will be a need for regional processing centers regardless of how the market goes.
sillyphilly
Active member
I think cannabis should be legalized and decriminalized for recreational use, will the lil guy suffer? maybe just depends on your network. ive been incarcerated for cultivation twice and seen a few others incarcerated as well for what? growing n smoking a plant.....rediculous! you can kill a cow n eat it but i cant grow a plant n smoke it? plasphemy! I know my friends will still come to me for quality instead of overfed prod bud anyday have a great day
The Hundreds of Millions of dollars of hard earned money, that many families depend on will now be THE profit of the Large Pharma companies....
People just LOVE to make the rich richer, at their own expense...
People just LOVE to make the rich richer, at their own expense...
You are the only one that "gets it". The ONLY reason the present MJ cashcroppers of the world are in control is because it's illegal. Make it legal and the dirty hippies
don't have a chance against the guys with suits and ties, banks full of money and the brightest minds in the world working for them. Todays illegal cashcroppers will either switch over to a different illegal substance, sell their "boutique" weed at farmers markets for couple bucks more than store bought or be standing on the street corner begging for buds.
C
CaliGabe
I keep on reading/hearing about big pharma. They are just gonna sit back and wait for the dust to settle to buy up companies which are basically the cream that will rise to the top. They won't touch anything until federal laws change. GW Pharmaceuticals got listed on the NASDAQ early last year at like $10 and recently hit like $80. I guess instead of bitching and moaning some could have bought GWPH and banked big dollars riding the wave.
C
CaliGabe
From what I understand the US government through the NIH, National Institute of Health, has licensed the rights to the patent they own, #6,630,507, to KannaLife Sciences for commercialization. The US Departmet of Health and Human Services owns that patent. If you dig a bit MJNA and CANV, ticker symbols, own a piece of KannaLife Sciences i belive. That is a use patent and not as some believe a government control on all cannabis strains. A use patent means the holder is the only one that can make those specific claims yet does not restrict the rights of others to sell the identical material if they don't make those claims.
I recently hooked up CANV, through their subsidiary US Hemp Oil and specifically Chris Boucher, with an idle seed oil production facility in Dove Creek CO. It can process about 20,000,000 lbs of hemp seed a year. Maybe the deal gets done and maybe not.
I recently hooked up CANV, through their subsidiary US Hemp Oil and specifically Chris Boucher, with an idle seed oil production facility in Dove Creek CO. It can process about 20,000,000 lbs of hemp seed a year. Maybe the deal gets done and maybe not.
You are the only one that "gets it". The ONLY reason the present MJ cashcroppers of the world are in control is because it's illegal. Make it legal and the dirty hippies
MJ croppers aren't in control of anything, they simply convert risk to reward.
If you think they are in control then you must not be one of them,
It makes sense that you feel controlled by them if you are a buyer but it is the government that has placed that artificial control that inflates price.
whats interesting is that you guys think that the true myriad of combinations that both genetics and environment can play in the role of dictating expression of primary and secondary metabolites is so finite that a few guys from the lab are going to create produce and market a single cultivar that fills everyone needs and delivery it perfectly every time like its a budwiser?
agriculturally speaking the present models deliver improved cultivars in terms of profit not in terms of chemical treatment and genetic modification. Cultivars are being improved to meet growing need at lower cost, they are not being improved upon from a better than it was before perspective.
Add the above complexities to the present model. Look at the concentrate boom, it offsets the lack of consistency of quality, as it did when it was an import commodity.
As someone who considers himself a seasoned grower/smoker I do not feel that the "market" or the"government" are going to add more value than the people who were willing to risk liberty for a passion
most any one in this game any amount of time has other real life hooks and can make much more money with a lower risk to reward ration
many many prohibition growers, in fact gross majority of the ones i have met are very passionate about the plant and its potential
everything else is secondary even teh money
