Do hermies occur naturally?

[BetaGrow]

Sup IC,

Everything I read about hermies is pretty ambiguous saying things like reasons for hermies are stress, etc. but my question is can they happen naturally? Like if you are doing everything 100% can they still occur without stress as a factor?

Also part two of my question is what would be the best way to go about getting seeds from hermies? I don't have any pure males and would love not having to spend all the cash on seeds and delivery next go around.

The plants in question are from Mandala regular seeds.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

I guess it depends on what you call hermie. To me, a plant that throws male and female flowers early in flower (2-4 weeks or so) is a hermie. A plant that throws a very few male flowers at the end of flowering is not a hermie. It doesn't bother me much about the late flowering ones, unless I have a room of mixed strains with some long flowering sativas that could possibly get pollinated. I definitely get rid of the early hermies. Otherwise the possible pollen will not affect your crop with no seed production.

As to the second question, hermies beget hermies!

 

[Tonygreen]

Cannabis plants can show all manner of intersex qualities in all ranges of degree. You can have highly staminate flowers or highly pistillate flowers in all ranges depending on genetics.

 

[BetaGrow]

Yeah that's exactly it. They started out shooting both female and male flowers. The top bud is almost completely female and the lower ones are almost all pollen sacs.

If I leave those four clones somewhere alone is there a possiblity they will cross pollinate and I will get viable seeds?

 

[Adze]

BetaGrow,
You should read some of what Tom Hill has written about hermies if you’re really interested. It seems that cannabis can have multiple stress factors that have different thresholds for expressing inter-sexed traits. So, you could have plant that has only a couple of stress factors, but at low thresholds and shows inter-sexed trails often or a plant with many stress factors at higher thresholds which might never be seen in some environments. If you’re planning to use plants from the same strain, crossing brother to sister, you’re inbreeding. That will likely produce plants with more recessive traits and more hermies, although it might be interesting to see the range.

 

[mitygrows]

Are all hermie seeds bad

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Are all hermie seeds bad

Absolutely not! Unless I'm completely high the Gorilla Glue #4, bred by ICMAG members and the current HT Cup winner was from a hermie.

 

[BetaGrow]

Thanks for the info Adze & everyone else. I can't seem to find anything by Tom Hill on hermies though. What was/is his username on the forums or do you know where I could find that? Thanks dude.

Also, in regards to inbreeding...if my hermies came from F1 seeds that will give me less recessive traits for another generation or two of inbreeding, correct?

 

[Cannavore]

Are all hermie seeds bad

If all hermies were bad we wouldn't have 90% of the "elite" clones every one drools over

 

[Adze]

BetaGrow,
True F1's from IBLs will segregate in subsequent populations. Meaning you will likely see more recessive traits from your F1s crosses including inter-sexed plants.
My concern is that early in a breeding program if you try to eliminate all “hermies” that you will limit the gene pool, and quite possibly the best and most potent gene combinations. Even though you cull all the plants that show inter-sexed traits you might still have a multitude of them in plants with only slightly higher or different stress thresholds. I'd focus on the best effects, most potent or psychoactive.

 

[RB56]

The plants in question are from Mandala regular seeds.

That seems unusual. I've been paying attention to and growing Mandala for a few years. Haven't heard of any tendencies or seen any myself. I had hermie problems BEFORE Mandala

 

[DrPimpNugs]

Well bright light occurring during nightfall can cause hermaphodism in nature, so it would be hard to distinguish between genotypical hermaphodism and phenotypical hermaphodism.

-DPN

 

[BetaGrow]

Thanks again for the replys dudes.

My lights have been going off with the sun, which is slightly longer than 12/12 here right now. The plants are also in a completely lightproofed area. The only other external factor I can even think of is humidity. My moms are in an area where my humidity is 35-50%, the flowering has been the same. But the clones are in a dome until they show new growth and I assume that is close to 100% humidity in the dome. That wouldn't be enough to do it though, right??

RB56 - These are not feminized seeds but yeah. I was actually pleasantly surprised because like I've been mentioning I'd love to get some more seeds out of this situation.

 

[DrPimpNugs]

Thanks again for the replys dudes.

My lights have been going off with the sun, which is slightly longer than 12/12 here right now. The plants are also in a completely lightproofed area. The only other external factor I can even think of is humidity. My moms are in an area where my humidity is 35-50%, the flowering has been the same. But the clones are in a dome until they show new growth and I assume that is close to 100% humidity in the dome. That wouldn't be enough to do it though, right??

RB56 - These are not feminized seeds but yeah. I was actually pleasantly surprised because like I've been mentioning I'd love to get some more seeds out of this situation.

Funny because I have been interested heavily in the topics of genetically express or environmentally induced hermaphodism and theres not a ton of info on the subject unfortunately no clear cut answers.

A strain can be genetically unstable and will always produce male and female organs. These tend to be strains that havent been stabilized and cant produce viable seeds. Alot of strains that are clone only, cant produce female only strains as S1(inbred mated using induced hermaphodism), bx's or even f1's are all going to be unstable. Maybe they wont germinate at all or only produce hermies. From my understanding this is the case.

The hard part is telling if the hermaphodism is due to genetics or actually minor stress that triggers an extreme TENDENCY to hermie or if it actually has genes to create bananas regardless. Some believe sex can be determined by temps in germination. I believe hermaphodism has been linked to very early stress of seedlings. Could be moisture, over ventilation, or just the soil profile isnt to the strains liking and it auto hermies. Louis XIII is an example of a clone only cut that loves to hermie and no ones made proper S1's that really match the parents because the gene pool will create these hermies "no matter what" or makes the plant stress to hermie "no matter what.

Some like cervantes i believe, said once a hermie always a hermie, but not sure his contextual specifics applicable here.

Long story short, it may be impossible to determine if your hermaphodism was caused by you or the genes unless you kept regrowing it from seed until you got a non hermie. Even then you just may be with different genetics for that seed that doesnt have the hermie prone gene.

My advice, try a different strain non feminized and if it keeps happening then you know somehow you are stressing the plants, even too much ventilation can cause dehydration leading to hermaphodism.


PS if your days are longer than twelve hours or irregularities in light schedule are a major source of hermaphodism. Most likely your culprit right there!

-Dpn

 

[BetaGrow]

Great info there, I'm growing these side by side with some Greenhouse feminized seeds and they are all girls without any question. So I'm thinking the culprit at this point is as you mentioned, the seedling phase or just genetics. When I said longer that 12/12 I meant like closer to 11/13, but this is changing by a minute or two a day anyways. Bottom line they should be getting a normal light regimen.

Could light spectrum do it? I'm using a combo of HPS and CFL...the moms were grown under CFLs and receive considerably less light than my flowering area as from what I read online this was a safe procedure.

Anyways, I've harvest quite a bit of pollen and culled the hermies for now. Will probably make a pollinated crop towards the end of the season.

 

[Snook]

Thanks again for the replys dudes.

My lights have been going off with the sun, which is slightly longer than 12/12 here right now. The plants are also in a completely lightproofed area. The only other external factor I can even think of is humidity. My moms are in an area where my humidity is 35-50%, the flowering has been the same. But the clones are in a dome until they show new growth and I assume that is close to 100% humidity in the dome. That wouldn't be enough to do it though, right??

RB56 - These are not feminized seeds but yeah. I was actually pleasantly surprised because like I've been mentioning I'd love to get some more seeds out of this situation.

only run a dome, for 5 days or so, on new seedlings..

BG, what do you mean by "My lights have been going off with the sun"? hoping you mean that your timer is coincidently turning lights on and off at sunrise and sunset.

famous last words; 'completely lightproofed' !! its taken me years to get the tent 'lightproofed', I don't know that it is 100% possible to do in a tent or a box. there is always something that happens or one overlooks. kinda like thinking that you (one) have no possibility of water leakage/flooding. good luck with that. but good luck to you..

 

[stoned-trout]

sativas seem to herm more than indigas IMHO

 

[BetaGrow]

Something seems fishy about the last two posts...lol...jk

Hey snook, yes I mean that in my area when it's dark outside it's also dark in my grow area. I turn the lights on 5-10 min before sunrise. They are in a place with no light leakage. Specifically that place is also in a place with no light leakage.

5 days only for clones you say? I've heard 14 days from most?

Also one big thing I definitely should have mentioned by now as well--- I'm taking my cuttings straight into 12/12 with no veg but this method seems to work well for others.

 

[DrPimpNugs]

Assuming that u are 100% light proof, and even with the instant flowering.. And taking into consideration the days are getting longer again meaning your light schedule is changing slightly... Even if that still was all perfect.. You may have got a bad batch of feminized seeds which from greenhouse, wouldn't be suprising since bigger banks tend to take slightly less time with quality control. Some may refute that, but in my experience it' can be a problem.

 

[Snook]

Something seems fishy about the last two posts...lol...jk

Hey snook, yes I mean that in my area when it's dark outside it's also dark in my grow area. I turn the lights on 5-10 min before sunrise. They are in a place with no light leakage. Specifically that place is also in a place with no light leakage.

5 days only for clones you say? I've heard 14 days from most?

Also one big thing I definitely should have mentioned by now as well--- I'm taking my cuttings straight into 12/12 with no veg but this method seems to work well for others.

no BG, I said 5 days for seedlings..
I use no dome for cuts, (I use a bubbler and a single 12w t5 florescent until roots) just spray a couple times a day for the first 3-5 days, if I remember. most root in 10-16 days. all cuts start with maybe one leaf and the little knob of a bud at top. light leaks???? they happen.