going back to an organic soil mix

[bigshrimp]

Ok - useless for?

 

[h.h.]

I'd be careful watering in fine particulate, it can clog all the air space in the top of your pots. Or go easy on the silt if you do.

I think your confused with DE.

I think of it as square peg in a round hole. You still have room and the space is held open when giving up moisture.

 

[rasputin]

that's what i'm looking to figure out today. i haven't grown in soil without guano yet so i'm looking to replace it with natural meals if possible. i have diatomaceous earth and have access to most of the 'down to earth' brand of meals as well as most of them on their own. i'm currently considering the vegan mix as it contains soybean meal, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, rock phosphate, sul-po-mag, stonemeal, and greensand. not sure if that will do it or if it would be better to add some blood/bone or crab meal along with oyster shell flour. looking to keep this as simple with as few ingredients as possible while giving the plants everything they need.

would it be better to purchase the meals separately and mix them in at different ratios? i only need to amend about 50gallons of soil.

Would it be better? I think so. You have more control over the individual quality of the amendment versus a readymade mix of questionable origin and content.

Not all kelp meal is equal, same as alfalfa, fish meal, and others. Given how crucial it is to have high energy inputs that either stimulate microbial activity or break down into significant nutrient sources, you don't necessarily want to skimp on the groceries.

Not to belabor the point but think of it this way; does McDonald's use the same quality beef as you do when you make hamburgers or that of a quality restaurant? They're all hamburgers but they are not the same.

That said, if you want to keep things simple and use as few ingredients as is necessary by all means use the veg mix. It's definitely a capable mix, not nearly as bad as McDonald's comparatively, I was just using that as an example. But I wonder how much kelp or alfalfa by % is actually in those pre-made mixes? If they specify, that is definitely a good sign.

Keep it fun, above all else. The positive feedback loop that develops between you and your garden will soon take over and you'll likely want to experiment. The worst thing you could do is make it a big chore to mix up soil and then not want to do it.

By the way, if you have crab meal & oyster shell powder on hand and also decide to use the mix, still use the crab & oyster. You can dial down on the crab but stay with 1 cup per cu ft for the oyster shell.

If you don't already have the crab meal & oyster shell and decide to use the mix, you can skip them.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Would it be better? I think so. You have more control over the individual quality of the amendment versus a readymade mix of questionable origin and content.

Not all kelp meal is equal, same as alfalfa, fish meal, and others. Given how crucial it is to have high energy inputs that either stimulate microbial activity or break down into significant nutrient sources, you don't necessarily want to skimp on the groceries.

Not to belabor the point but think of it this way; does McDonald's use the same quality beef as you do when you make hamburgers or that of a quality restaurant? They're all hamburgers but they are not the same.

That said, if you want to keep things simple and use as few ingredients as is necessary by all means use the veg mix. It's definitely a capable mix, not nearly as bad as McDonald's comparatively, I was just using that as an example. But I wonder how much kelp or alfalfa by % is actually in those pre-made mixes? If they specify, that is definitely a good sign.

Keep it fun, above all else. The positive feedback loop that develops between you and your garden will soon take over and you'll likely want to experiment. The worst thing you could do is make it a big chore to mix up soil and then not want to do it.

By the way, if you have crab meal & oyster shell powder on hand and also decide to use the mix, still use the crab & oyster. You can dial down on the crab but stay with 1 cup per cu ft for the oyster shell.

If you don't already have the crab meal & oyster shell and decide to use the mix, you can skip them.

In addition, the more amendments you use the greater the biodiversity and the less chance you have of being low on some micro nutrient. Mixing your own is peace of mind to me, you have complete control and not guessing/relying on what and how much is in the pre-mix. I spend much less mixing my own soil than buying a pre-mixed soil, and no bugs!

I would also like to know BF's reasoning for not liking the rice hulls, I've not had any problems with watering/aeration problems in my mix with only rice hulls for aeration and I re-use my soil, although I do add a bit more rice hulls when re-using. I never really liked perlite.

 

[pseudostelariae]

Would it be better? I think so. You have more control over the individual quality of the amendment versus a readymade mix of questionable origin and content.

Not all kelp meal is equal, same as alfalfa, fish meal, and others. Given how crucial it is to have high energy inputs that either stimulate microbial activity or break down into significant nutrient sources, you don't necessarily want to skimp on the groceries.

Not to belabor the point but think of it this way; does McDonald's use the same quality beef as you do when you make hamburgers or that of a quality restaurant? They're all hamburgers but they are not the same.

That said, if you want to keep things simple and use as few ingredients as is necessary by all means use the veg mix. It's definitely a capable mix, not nearly as bad as McDonald's comparatively, I was just using that as an example. But I wonder how much kelp or alfalfa by % is actually in those pre-made mixes? If they specify, that is definitely a good sign.

Keep it fun, above all else. The positive feedback loop that develops between you and your garden will soon take over and you'll likely want to experiment. The worst thing you could do is make it a big chore to mix up soil and then not want to do it.

By the way, if you have crab meal & oyster shell powder on hand and also decide to use the mix, still use the crab & oyster. You can dial down on the crab but stay with 1 cup per cu ft for the oyster shell.

If you don't already have the crab meal & oyster shell and decide to use the mix, you can skip them.

i think i'm ready to admit that it isn't necessarily 'wrong' to use an animal product so i might bail on the vegan mix and either buy individual amendments or go with an icmag user's suggested nutrient mix like http://www.simplici-tea.com/nutrientpack.htm containing

KIS Microbe Catalyst, Gaia Green Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, Calphos Soft Rock Phosphate, Pacific Pearl Oyster Shell Powder, Sulfate of Potash (Sul Po Mag, K Mag), Alfalfa Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Crustacean Meal, Kelp Meal, Ahimsa Organics Neem Cake/Karanja Cake, Tera Vita SP-85 Humic Acid, Fish Meal, Feather Meal, Steamed Bone Meal, Natural Calcite, Mycorrhizae*, and Benefical Microbes.

right now i'm just using the 50/50 mix to veg while the coco finishes flowering but i'd like to amend the rest of it so it can cook a month or so before i transplant into it. seems like a complete amendment mix that would carry plants through flower with a few applications of ACT. i also have TM-7 i can use for additional micro nutrients.

the only reason i'm holding off on just buying that amendment mix is this statement

"Can be used indoors or outdoors, though keep in mind that this soil is alive and there will be some insects and other small organisms in the soil. This is necessary to maintain a healthy soil food web and achieve proper nutrient cycling. You don't want a sterile soil for organic gardening/growing!"

i'm all for microorganisms but i don't want to knowingly buy a mix that will introduce pests to my indoor garden when i've gone out of my way to find castings and compost that have been tested clean. i'm currently riding out spidermites and my goal after this harvest is to eradicate them and ideally not see them again. it doesn't bother me enough to burn a crop but i'm growing as a provider of medicine so i can't really afford mites or flies. that sort of thing prevents a donation of medicine at most reputable dispensaries and i'm looking to help people heal and/or not die in a miserable state of being.

 

[h.h.]

"Can be used indoors or outdoors, though keep in mind that this soil is alive and there will be some insects and other small organisms in the soil. This is necessary to maintain a healthy soil food web and achieve proper nutrient cycling. You don't want a sterile soil for organic gardening/growing!"

Sounds like a pretty honest statement. I didn't see where it said "pest" anywhere.Bet ya a buck it isn't spidermites.

 

[Payaso]

Nice lively discussion... groovy to read some good information here

 

[paint4420]

+rep payaso , its a nice change of pace from vendor bashing. I almost forgot that I came here to learn

 

[Microbeman]

Pseudo; IME the best way to fight bugs is with bugs, especially in the longterm if your goal is living soil. I, myself, would avoid any product put forth as tested clean or sterilized. There is a lot of stuff which requires unlearning when/if you make the leap into natural growing.

 

[h.h.]

Spider mites have many natural enemies, which limit their numbers in many landscapes and gardens, especially when undisturbed by pesticide sprays. Some of the most important are the predatory mites, including the western predatory mite (Figure 7), Galendromus (formerly Metaseiulus) occidentalis, and Phytoseiulus mite species. Predatory mites are about the same size as plant-feeding mites but have longer legs and are more active; they also are more teardrop-shaped than spider mites.

Spider mites frequently become a problem after applying insecticides. Such outbreaks are commonly a result of the insecticide killing off the mites’ natural enemies but also occur when certain insecticides stimulate mite reproduction. For example, spider mites exposed to carbaryl (Sevin) in the laboratory have been shown to reproduce faster than untreated populations. Carbaryl, some organophosphates, and some pyrethroids apparently also favor spider mites by increasing the level of nitrogen in leaves. Insecticides applied during hot weather usually appear to have the greatest effect, causing dramatic spider mite outbreaks within a few days.

Cultural practices can have a significant impact on spider mites. Dusty conditions often lead to mite outbreaks. Apply water to pathways and other dusty areas at regular intervals. Water-stressed trees and plants are less tolerant of spider mite damage. Be sure to provide adequate irrigation. Mid*season washing of trees and vines with water to remove dust may help prevent serious late-season mite infestations.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7405.html