TLO!!!

[sirsmokesallot]

hello i am new to this site and am about to begin what i hope to be a good invesment. i have just bought the best of rev grow special and figure it sounds like a woderful way of growing. anyways my question is i have started a soil mix for my beans and am curious to know if i have a safe mix. so far i have peat moss black earth mushroom compost green sand worm compost and lime. unfortunatly i have no soil ph probe or liquid tester i also wanted to know if this mix would contain micro organisims to balance the ph? i also have other nutrients should i add anything else?

 

[darwinsbulldog]

sounds good to me mate, i dunno about micro organisms that balance ph though, but the lime should keep the ph below 7. any beneficial micro organisms in there will be on the roots most likely, helping the plant with uptake of nutes like N etc. you've used worm compost so i wouldn't use any other nutes until the plant's used up all the nutes from that or it may burn them. so in a month or so if the plant starts looking like it's hungry for some nutes then worry about adding chem nutes or more worm castings etc. hope it goes well for you buddy

 

[sirsmokesallot]

have u read up on tlo because rev says that there will be micro organisms that will balance ur ph he states that ocean forest soil will have tons of them straight outta the bag and that when u mix it they will go to work on the soil and balance everything im just curious if my soil will contain these micro organisms or should i add via forest floor?

 

[Rickman]

Sirsmokesalot, nice to hear I'm not the only one.

Peat is not a good idea; according to The Rev peat moss rapidly decreases pH if you recycle your soil.

What do you mean by "the best of the rev grow special"? I've got the original book True Living Organics, and I've bought the TLO starter pack from truelivingorganic.com, which I'm working with a new round of veg with currently.

Your questions about additives are all clearly outlined in the book, I just reread it myself cover to cover in two days. That thing is full of invaluable info gems I missed the first time around when I just wanted to get my hands dirty.

Bottom line is don't add anything but CLEAN water with as little TDS as possible. The only thing mentioned, if you're "shy on using dolomite lime" which it looks like you're not, was to add General Organics (not GH) CaMg+ at a level of up to 65 TDS from a pure water source.

The only liquid "nutrients" advised are compost teas which I've just begun experimenting with. This is not so much a nutrient feed, as it is a replenishment of microorganisms and their food, which in turn will be processed into what the plant uses. Using any sort of directly absorbable nutrient would be devastating to a living soil mix I believe.

The one big thing I keep reading additive wise is to, at ALL COSTS, avoid the use of synthetic chelated acids...which hide all over in nutes. I've even got an old set of Roots Organics line, and their Extreme Serene looks like the most organic thing, but in fact contains chelated acids that will cause pH to dive and give the fungus in your soil an unfair advantage over stunned roots.

 

[Rickman]

I added only a small amount..1/8 tsp maybe...of Fungi-Perfecti "MYCO-GROW" to my compost tea, other than that I have not added any other micro life to that mix from truelivingorganic.com, and I can actually feel the heat of the pots, from the friction of all the micro action..I even spotted a tiny worm looking thing that was blue just squirming around on a root hair during a transplant.

Having been classically conditioned to be extremely careful about overfeeding, I actually starved my first round of TLO plants really badly, I don't know if they'll come back. I believe this was because the micro life out-competed the plant for resources. My second veg round, I used fertilizer spikes in the first transplant.

As far as TLO goes, from what I can see (at least if you want to grow anything bigger than a 1Gal or so) it's 100% necessary to use fertilizer spikes as directed. The first round showed improvement after late spike transplants, and the second round was spiked during transplant. The second round is looking lush and has not shown any signs of any deficiency whatsoever.

 

[Rickman]

LOL Ok, I've been searching for a TLO-based forum and got over-excited when I found this...just realized this is so old. Maybe I'll start a new one based on my TLO experiment that's really picking up some steam now.

 

[Bulldog420]

I first bought the book that Rev wrote and really liked it. Then whenever skunk mag came out with the best of Rev I would always buy that. However, the book has everything skunk mag has. So, if you like Rev I would suggest buying the book.

 

[Microbeman]

There is nothing wrong with using peatmoss in a soil mix. If properly blended with [vermi]compost pH is not an issue.

Lime raises pH

but the lime should keep the ph below 7

If you have a longterm goal of keeping living soil (IMO) fertilizer spikes are a mistake and counter to natural soil ecology. In nature organic matter degrades from the surface > down.

 

[h.h.]

Tonight's story on The Twilight Zone is somewhat unique and calls for a different kind of introduction. This, as you may recognize, is a map of the United States, and there's a little town there called Peaksville. On a given morning not too long ago, the rest of the world disappeared and Peaksville was left all alone. Its inhabitants were never sure whether the world was destroyed and only Peaksville left untouched or whether the village had somehow been taken away

And you keep thinking bad thoughts about me!

Dave's not here.

Stick around, read up.Church is out.

 

[Rickman]

I jumped over to another forum I found on here, "Team Microbe's Quest Into True Living Organics" and as far as I can see, that'll be the TLO specific project to watch. Really neat stuff!

Interesting about the peat moss. I'm so new to this style; I've only just started experimenting with non-homogenous mixes and am trying to stick to the text before I start experimenting. It'd seem the peat was only an evident issue at high ratios, after continual recycling. I'm sure it's relatively inert and a-ok for micro-happiness especially for a fresh mix!

I have no immediate interest in soil recycling, simply due to the fact I'm such a fan of what I've seen my own spikes do on my first tries even--let alone the idea of full-organic usage with super-nutrient levels that don't disturb global pH, due to their strategic placement. i've only got a small experimental space so i'm trying to take it to the max!

 

[h.h.]

Interesting that your information has been found incorrect and you still want to stick to the text that lead you astray.

the idea of full-organic usage with super-nutrient levels that don't disturb global pH

What does that mean?
Seriously. I'd throw the book away, have a sacrificial burning, forget what I read and start again. I would not trust it.
Do keep your enthusiasm.
You're getting "expert" advice now, at least advice from one who has actually done his homework. Lucky you.
You do want to learn correctly. Personally, I've spent half my life trying to unlearn the bull shit that I learned in the first half. Try not to fall in that trap.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

my experience with the rev and TLO was horrible, so bad in fact that i almost went back to chemicals.

Then I found info with actual science and citations to back it up. I would take everything you read from "rev" with a grain of salt, the guy is just a grower, has no science or biology background. he is basically just re interpreting what he has read and does it in a way that people with no science or clue can understand. It is all gimmicks and marketing. Next time you read through his articles notice all the buzz words like "supernatural" and "magical" he uses. No respected scientists or biologists would ever use those terms when describing what occurs naturally.

Its a good starting place but you can easily break free of the "rev" by just searching and reading about organic gardening and microbiology. In fact you would be one step ahead of the rev as after you read a little you realize this guy aint so smart. and a lot of things he really doesnt understand and doesnt have the capacity to understand. he pushes stoner science. I prefer actual science.

good luck!

This is one of the best posts I have seen in a while.

 

[Rickman]

yes, I completely understand your viewpoints.

by 'global soil' i was referring to the standard homogenous mixes which i've used for years. it's not "rev speak," it's elementary soil science. thus the pH is fairly consistent throughout, as opposed to a strategically layered and spiked container with various zones roots can choose to either feed on or avoid.

super-natrual is not referring to any magic or silver-bullet technique, it's just saying above-natural levels of soil micro life, going to work for your plants.

my first run of TLO has been very tough, I can tell it's not something you can just get right away and there is a learning curve. I also understand this guy is not a PHD nor am I claiming this is the best technique.

that being said i'd give the book a read cover to cover before slamming it. i actually just ordered teaming with microbes an am excited to read it now, as it is politely suggested as the #1 title for further reading at the end of the book. Sue him or don't, TLO is still full of a lot of good info, and my chron does not lose quality because whatever book helped it grow didn't have proper citations.

 

[Rickman]

I also see Eureka Springs praising the discredit of TLO, but now that I look at their products, I see a few right off the bat that could be effectively used in a a TLO grow. It's not a solid doctrine of how-to based on a single company or benefactor, it's written in about the most polite, non-capitalistic, canadian way possible. disappointing to see such cynicism on here honestly.

 

[h.h.]

he is still speaking rev speak, it is so weird to read this guys FB page. he has a small following of psuedo wannabe microbiologists who know some terms but have no clue what they mean. then they try and debate things and ask the rev for advice, meanwhile this guy keeps selling them recycled dumbed down misinterpreted information.

the rev set me back at least six months before I realized his methods were complete shit. i should have known when I tried searching for other organic gardeners and their use of "spikes". nobody but this rev talks about spikes and layers , that should tell you something. the rev is not a revolutionary, this type of growing has been going on for centuries.

Sounds like a cult.
All them "grow" books suck. "Marijuana Botany", I think is worth having for some, but it's not a grow book. The best books on marijuana, generally don't mention marijuana at all. They're about microbes, and compost, and growing flowers and food.
An even better source of knowledge is an oak tree. You sit under it with a fatty and see what's there. What you won't see are spikes.

 

[Rickman]

i wish i had a soil container that could fit a full grown oak tree in a grow tent in my basement for sure.

 

[h.h.]

I also see Eureka Springs praising the discredit of TLO, but now that I look at their products, I see a few right off the bat that could be effectively used in a a TLO grow. It's not a solid doctrine of how-to based on a single company or benefactor, it's written in about the most polite, non-capitalistic, canadian way possible. disappointing to see such cynicism on here honestly.

I'm sorry. Please don't take offense. Just realize that there is so much wrong with what you've already said.

 

[h.h.]

i wish i had a soil container that could fit a full grown oak tree in a grow tent in my basement for sure.

Unfortunately, all we have around here are palm trees.

 

[xmobotx]

in early discussions which led to the ROLS discussions & premised many of the techs being used by ROLS advocates, the acronym TLO was used w/ no connection to the rev's TLO

no one in that group uses the acronym TLO to describe anything any more

 

[Rickman]

in early discussions which led to the ROLS discussions & premised many of the techs being used by ROLS advocates, the acronym TLO was used w/ no connection to the rev's TLO

no one in that group uses the acronym TLO to describe anything any more

Now that is concise and constructive information, which is what I'm looking for here.

Yes I apologize I'm new to the whole faceless online forum format of communication. I thought this one called TLO would just be about information from people who've tried it, and as stated I didn't realize it was so old. I was just throwing out there to that one guy what I'd taken from the read vs. what he said. I flat out said "I'm so new to this style", and I'm honestly glad people are passionately jumping on this. Anyhow! If you can't beat em...

Assuming theres "so much wrong with everything i've said", and let's say I have that ritualistic book burning as suggested earlier, but still am fascinated by the living soil mix. Does anyone have any suggestions where to start, or restart as it were? I've got "Teaming With Microbes" coming in the mail tomorrow, and I've got tons of organic supplies. Any positive insight or constructive criticisms would be greatly appreciated!

I've definitely grown a few monsters on synthetic steroids but there's something about the feel of that organic matter on the hands and the smell of fresh forest floor that feels just too right. I'm at the point where I can't learn much more just by my own experiments so I've been reading a few publications. I'm not here to argue y'all, I'm hear to learn and grow!!