nogutsnoglory
Member
Title says it all, Whats the best large scale SOG hydro set up? 1 to 4 weeks veg from rooted cut, min 16 clones per 1k max 64 per 1k.
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LARGE SCALE SOG
- Thread starter nogutsnoglory
- Start date
medman225
Member
I truly enjoy drip to waste in coco... explosive growth rates with 2x daily feedings u wont need 4 weeks as icdoc says... and incredibly easy to manage.
if not drip to waste coco I dunno perlite or hydrotron etc. flood and drain maybe.... for an easy set up...
if youv got some room and some time and wanna go for a big yield I think a big Rubbermaid for each 16 clones Deep water culture could do really well... but make sure ur well versed or atleast well read in DWC as it can be tricky for first timers and I dont wanna suggest a learning experience new style if this is a commercial run... tho if ur well versed cool.
myself, I would suggest my first option... coco drip to waste or handwatered(less easy) will give u great results if you water like a hydro medium(2x times a day.... not recommended for new clones! must establish a serious root mass first)....
coco is an amazing medium... it has the growth rate of similar type hydro methods, yet I can attest that good coco done right can rival organic in taste.... if you dont know the ins and outs of coco... theres some really good threads here on icmag just use the search engine or google coco coir icmag... if you already know all this I apologize bro im not trying to talk down to ya just dont know ya and not sure what you are and aren't familiar with.
one thing I will say... if ur in a med state where u can only grow X amount... then it might be worthwhile to consider, like you mentioned, veging for a little longer and getting the most out of ur space.... might not be a full on SOG in the classic sense but single poles of bud grown quickly is the idea the variables can change a little to accommodate certain situations.
hope this helps bro... whats your experience in hydro and whats ur preferred medium in hydro?
if not drip to waste coco I dunno perlite or hydrotron etc. flood and drain maybe.... for an easy set up...
if youv got some room and some time and wanna go for a big yield I think a big Rubbermaid for each 16 clones Deep water culture could do really well... but make sure ur well versed or atleast well read in DWC as it can be tricky for first timers and I dont wanna suggest a learning experience new style if this is a commercial run... tho if ur well versed cool.
myself, I would suggest my first option... coco drip to waste or handwatered(less easy) will give u great results if you water like a hydro medium(2x times a day.... not recommended for new clones! must establish a serious root mass first)....
coco is an amazing medium... it has the growth rate of similar type hydro methods, yet I can attest that good coco done right can rival organic in taste.... if you dont know the ins and outs of coco... theres some really good threads here on icmag just use the search engine or google coco coir icmag... if you already know all this I apologize bro im not trying to talk down to ya just dont know ya and not sure what you are and aren't familiar with.
one thing I will say... if ur in a med state where u can only grow X amount... then it might be worthwhile to consider, like you mentioned, veging for a little longer and getting the most out of ur space.... might not be a full on SOG in the classic sense but single poles of bud grown quickly is the idea the variables can change a little to accommodate certain situations.
hope this helps bro... whats your experience in hydro and whats ur preferred medium in hydro?
nogutsnoglory
Member
Im aware of the traditional sog method icdog, 4 cuts per square 64 per 1k 3 to 10 days veg then flip. Im proposing with the longer veg time less plants per square, like 25. Kind of a happy medium between veg time and number of clones. The only problem is im afraid they may require additional thinning to avoid fluff on the bottom portions.
Medman, I used to run tables F&D, 6" then 4" rockwool. Great for small to medium setups but not so much for commercial, unless your building your own tables and whatnot and reusing net pots with hydroton(tho ive never ran hydroton). I run a coco based mix now(advanced ultra coir) hand watered every 3-5 days, and yes its a pain in the ass. I was debating looking into a drip system, however I was not aware you could water/feed coco grown plants that frequently with out risking over watering.
Medman, I used to run tables F&D, 6" then 4" rockwool. Great for small to medium setups but not so much for commercial, unless your building your own tables and whatnot and reusing net pots with hydroton(tho ive never ran hydroton). I run a coco based mix now(advanced ultra coir) hand watered every 3-5 days, and yes its a pain in the ass. I was debating looking into a drip system, however I was not aware you could water/feed coco grown plants that frequently with out risking over watering.
sog yeah good thread hope you find what you are looking for
I have been running SOG systems for many yrs.. here is a quick couple pics of the easiest most productive system i have come up with over the years... it can be run as a simple 1 table to as many as you want.. this particular table is running 50 under 2k in a 5x10' table, recirculating top feed straight perlite.
If you would like more info on my system let me know or drop me a line.
either way good luck
If you would like more info on my system let me know or drop me a line.
either way good luck
wow. do you have a thread? how long do you veg? looks dialed for sure.
nogutsnoglory
Member
Indeed that's a fine tuned system. I second the veg question. Topped once? Gal rez? Im not sure why but the sight will not let me message, says not enough posts or something.
maryanne3087
Active member
Does his veg time really matter? Unless you're running his clones your plants will likely be less or more vigorous veggers thus require a different amount of veg time.
Thanks guys,
As maryanne says, my strains will differ to yours and it will be necessary to dial yours in a run or 2 to get a feel for whats optimal veg time and training.
I will say this though, there are 3 basic types of plants, Indica, Sativa, and hybrid.
Indica is obviously the first choice for SOG because it is easy to control and yields well.
Sativas are just not good for SOG, to stretchy and uncontrollable for maximum yield
Hybrids will work, however they take some careful planning and training.
In todays market hybrids are the most sought after as far as superior quality, for this reason alone we have learned how to grow them in SOG with great yields.
With hybrids, not all will play nice in SOG, however most can be controlled, the key is training them from clone to keep within your usable light penetration and also filling in your entire grow space.
The pics above are a strain called ICE from Oregon, it is indeed a hybrid and without proper training would never work in SOG, as you can see they were FIM'd as soon as they were rooted, they were then vegged for roughly 1 week to a height of 7" with multiple equal branches then pinched and bent where needed to fill in the whole area, a future point if your considering this method... no pinching should be done after 10 days of flowering, we have found that most strains will have decreased bud development and odd structure, i have seen this many times, so if your plants get to big you will have to alter your original plan.
They KEY to any SOG for maximum yield is to keep the plants in your usable light zone and to fill that zone with as much usable bud as possible.
cheers fellas
As maryanne says, my strains will differ to yours and it will be necessary to dial yours in a run or 2 to get a feel for whats optimal veg time and training.
I will say this though, there are 3 basic types of plants, Indica, Sativa, and hybrid.
Indica is obviously the first choice for SOG because it is easy to control and yields well.
Sativas are just not good for SOG, to stretchy and uncontrollable for maximum yield
Hybrids will work, however they take some careful planning and training.
In todays market hybrids are the most sought after as far as superior quality, for this reason alone we have learned how to grow them in SOG with great yields.
With hybrids, not all will play nice in SOG, however most can be controlled, the key is training them from clone to keep within your usable light penetration and also filling in your entire grow space.
The pics above are a strain called ICE from Oregon, it is indeed a hybrid and without proper training would never work in SOG, as you can see they were FIM'd as soon as they were rooted, they were then vegged for roughly 1 week to a height of 7" with multiple equal branches then pinched and bent where needed to fill in the whole area, a future point if your considering this method... no pinching should be done after 10 days of flowering, we have found that most strains will have decreased bud development and odd structure, i have seen this many times, so if your plants get to big you will have to alter your original plan.
They KEY to any SOG for maximum yield is to keep the plants in your usable light zone and to fill that zone with as much usable bud as possible.
cheers fellas
Doneit, you need to make a SOG for noobs thread with all your info in one spot so you don't have to keep repeating yourself to us peasants lol
Peace,
HGO
Peace,
HGO
My best SoG plantlet was flowered at 4" tall. The secret IMO is mother health and vigour, perfected cloning environment,and 100% dialled in environment for the (often neglected, bodged) veg days between propagator and flower table.
I was running NFT and used no spreader mat in the veg period, instead had them in a gushy flow (as opposed to a film, the F of NFT) ... this was run on 10 groove rockwool slab duct, all roots grow horizontal and strong, zero transplant shock, almighty takeoff.
I was running NFT and used no spreader mat in the veg period, instead had them in a gushy flow (as opposed to a film, the F of NFT) ... this was run on 10 groove rockwool slab duct, all roots grow horizontal and strong, zero transplant shock, almighty takeoff.
Icdog,
Yes i do, especially with these stretchy hybrids, There is no way to run them like the old days with Solid Indicas at 6" on center.
with out fim'ing them and controlling they're growth you have way to much wasted space and more stem than bud.
essentially my idea behind this is to mimic how a 100 plant SOG would be with only 25 plants, nothing but full branches and an even canopy.
Even if i had a single cola plant that would grow really well in SOG and could compete with todays hybrids, i probably would still run the 25 per 1k versus 64, the work load is much easier and the weight production is up to par. or maybe im just getting old and lazy? lol.. dunno?
As with any system it takes time to dial it in and tweak it for optimal performance. most people i have met over the yrs don't have the patience or the loyalty to they're system to keep at it till its running just right.
All i am doing here is showing you guys what we have evolved to over the yrs and hopefully you will take something from it to help better your systems.
cheers fellas
Yes i do, especially with these stretchy hybrids, There is no way to run them like the old days with Solid Indicas at 6" on center.
with out fim'ing them and controlling they're growth you have way to much wasted space and more stem than bud.
essentially my idea behind this is to mimic how a 100 plant SOG would be with only 25 plants, nothing but full branches and an even canopy.
Even if i had a single cola plant that would grow really well in SOG and could compete with todays hybrids, i probably would still run the 25 per 1k versus 64, the work load is much easier and the weight production is up to par. or maybe im just getting old and lazy? lol.. dunno?
As with any system it takes time to dial it in and tweak it for optimal performance. most people i have met over the yrs don't have the patience or the loyalty to they're system to keep at it till its running just right.
All i am doing here is showing you guys what we have evolved to over the yrs and hopefully you will take something from it to help better your systems.
cheers fellas
fim'ing, lst'ing or is it lsd'ing, can you help a brother figure it all out? thanks!
lol... i will try bro,
FIM'ing is where you cut the newest growth of the top bud at a 45 degree angle, not cutting the node off but 70% of it.
This in turn will give you a minimum of 4 equal tops growing out of that one single top.
there used to be a real nice write up on it here many yrs ago, in fact thats where i first learned about it.
it does take some practice to get them just rite, but once you figure it out its pretty easy.
I will try and run a search for the original description, im sure it will be most helpful if you have never dome it before.
FIM'ing is where you cut the newest growth of the top bud at a 45 degree angle, not cutting the node off but 70% of it.
This in turn will give you a minimum of 4 equal tops growing out of that one single top.
there used to be a real nice write up on it here many yrs ago, in fact thats where i first learned about it.
it does take some practice to get them just rite, but once you figure it out its pretty easy.
I will try and run a search for the original description, im sure it will be most helpful if you have never dome it before.
Well, here is an older thread on the subject but the pics are gone... it looks like it does have some valuable info in it though...
A google search came up with many links
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=50719&highlight=fimming
A google search came up with many links
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=50719&highlight=fimming
No problem dog, thats why we are here is it not?
Those trays are just for drainage, there is no standing water in them, however i have seen algae growth now and again, doesn't hurt anything.
as for any medium based system, if your environment is off and medium to wet, you can get some serious algae growth, not to mention some real nasties.
Those trays are just for drainage, there is no standing water in them, however i have seen algae growth now and again, doesn't hurt anything.
as for any medium based system, if your environment is off and medium to wet, you can get some serious algae growth, not to mention some real nasties.
nogutsnoglory
Member
I am totally with you on the 25 per light call it lazy old or what not its a hella easier to manage. In the past I found running nut to butt 100% indicas worked well if they never exceeded 12"(light penetration problems), so that leaves you in the 4 per sqf range. The hybrids are the way to go imo, I like a 60/40 indica sativa, just enough stretch to let the light penetrate wile still having structural support. Doneit you've got a jam up system your running, however I don't know how commercially viable it is. Im looking for a 100% commercial system, that can be outfitted economically, and ran with minimal system and plant maintenance. I started out with and am still leaning towards a coco/perlite system, drain to waste irrigated with drip lines, Prob #3 pots. Some kind of nft is what I was thinking I would find.
