Washington State new legislation

[high life 45]

It isn't fair to say there is no compassion. A person can still grow their own three plants or get a care giver to help that out. That isn't throwing patients under the bus.

What about the reality that the majority of medicinal cannabis users would rather consider themselves recreational users? Why see a doctor when you don't need to?

What about the reality that a lot of people who visit medical marijuana dispensaries are recreational users?

Yes.. MMJ has paved the way for legal cannabis... we yet need to transition.

How many patients do you grow for catman? Honestly.

I have nearly 12 that my gf, grobro, and I take care of. 36plants would not cut it.

That's your opinion that most med users are truly recreational. Go lobby for stricter requirements to be approved for medical if that's how ya feel.

The rec users don't have to see a doc, I'm not worried about them, I'm worried about the sick old grandmas and grandpas, these are my patients.

Yes they are throwing them under the bus IMO because they went and approved it through the house of reps instead of through the people who they know would refuse. They already tried to take concentrates away in wa. The people were not happy about that, and it didn't go through. This is happening due to concern about the dollar, not people in pain.

It's gonna be flooded up there, even worse than it is now. I have already seen and heard it from people who are much more involved in the med and rec scene than you are with your personal grow. Folks with big money coming in don't care about the medi patients.


IMO It's not compassionate to tax someone who is sick and limit their access to medicine. Tell me why it is. I'm all ears.

We deal with an aids patient who can consume ounces of concentrate every month. They live on a fixed income and cannot grow in their house.

What about Cancer patients who don't have the strength to grow. You think health insurance is gonna buy their herb?

Fibromyalgia, lung cancer, prostate cancer, aids, deteriorated hips, spinal fusing, agent orange, epilepsy, one patient is handicapped to the point that they are bedridden ...I give them all their meds for free. Most of these patients couldn't grow their own even if they wanted to.


I like the old TCM view on doctors ...you pay them to keep you healthy, they pay you if you get sick.

You obviously haven't experienced the wonder of this plant. I feel sorry for you.

You sound like a guy who drinks domestic beer in a can at a wine tasting "they all taste the same to me"

Believe it or not different strains have different effects on people. It takes experience to find the strains that work right for each person.

I kept the larfiest, non stony strain for one of My patients until I found something better. It grew huge but yielded very poorly and never got me high or stoned. But it's what let my patient go back to sleep so we grew it for her, until we found something better, it took about a year and 14 different strains till we found it.

I highly doubt the recreational growers up in Washington will grow something like that, it would rarely leave the shelf.

Med and recreational are not the same, I'm sorry that you can't see that.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

There should be the same limits on cannabis as there is on tomatoes. The only caveat is you need to be 18. Other than that the government needs to mind their own god damn business.

 

[oldchuck]

I think we'll keep the black market open for a while.

 

[trichrider]

imo the stringent recommendations will allow the blackmarket to flourish again.

make your connections....

 

[catman]

3 flowering plants isn't nearly enough to make a good selection when growing from seeds.

It's crazy to put that kind of restriction on personal growers. You'd have to rely on someone else's clones if you want to grow 3 quality plants for each harvest.

What do you need to select for? All cannabis effects particular neurotransmitters to varying degrees. There aren't any other medications I'm aware of that require different flavors. The consistency of other medications seems to be more important.

I've grown three quality plants before. I didn't need to rely on anyone.

You sound like a guy who drinks domestic beer in a can at a wine tasting "they all taste the same to me"

Believe it or not different strains have different effects on people. It takes experience to find the strains that work right for each person.

I have never grown for any patients. I've made no bones about that. I'm advocating for legalization and proper control of a substance. It's fine that we disagree. There is no need to be disrespectful. You obviously are invested in what you are doing and you have a bias. More power to you.

You do deserve praise for the good you do, but do you honestly do no evil? What do you think about a man who says what you have, but also illegally distributes a substance to people who are not patients? I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just asking you to consider the reality that not everyone follows the rules, like I believe they should. The end game, to me, is to make a difference to unjust laws and prohibition of a plant.

All beers contain alcohol and alcohol has predictable effects on the human body. Some people say that drinking makes them relaxed and cheerful while others claim it makes them angry and violent. Just because people state that it has such effects, doesn't mean there is a rational explanation as to why the substance controls their behavior...

...Cannabis contains THC, CBD, and several other compounds. There are relatively large bodies of research on them. There is no explanation as to why a person would need a variety of strains for cannabis to be effective. Cannabis does cause a tolerance so some people may chase stronger strains, but does doing this actually help anyone in the long run? For those who are terminally ill...it might not matter, but this reality does impact everyone on a societal level.

I highly doubt the recreational growers up in Washington will grow something like that, it would rarely leave the shelf.

Med and recreational are not the same, I'm sorry that you can't see that.

If there is a market for something, somebody will fill it.

I never said anything that would imply they are the same. I'm sorry you can't truthfully represent what I have stated.

There should be the same limits on cannabis as there is on tomatoes.

You can't grow a million dollars worth of tomatoes and not expect to pay taxes...

 

[BROTHER!Nature]

they want the black market open. so they can still get money from fines and arrest. this is a shame, Washington state has one hell of a medical system out there. really hate to see it disappear.

 

[jimmyd42]

I-502 is criminalization all over again:

1) Medical Patients won't be able to continue with I-502. Either you stop, change your illness or become a criminal. I have yet to see a grow that yields exactly 3 ounces and not more. I personally need 1-2 ounces - a week. Even the 8 ounce limit you can ask your doc for is just not what is needed in reality. And we didn't even talk about different strains yet. Lets face it, if u are going to grow after I-502 with the current bills, you will be a criminal! There is just no way you are not going to be.

I won't touch the myriad of other problems coming with I-502 for patients here, this story has been told 100 times.

The thing that really kills it, is the registry though. I don't see the registry working. I predict we will see the patients "voting" their opinion on what is happening at the moment in washington when the registry goes up and people don't register. And the LCB will sell it as another success story on how the new market is working great and MMJ is not needed anymore. We will see.

2) I-502 producers are forced to start as criminals. On 1. May the medical market is shutting down in Washington and at the same time or a bit later the new producers are supposed to start. Not a single license has been issued yet. You aren't allowed to have any marijuana plants as I-502 producer without the license. You can't import them. There are no seed or clone producers for I-502 because again, it doesn't exist, and even then, you can sell weed not plants or seeds from what i understand.
The solution of the LCB/state in washington? Producers are supposed to have their plants "appear" in their licensed plantation during the first 14 days of having the license.
The only way to not become a criminal? Start a marijuana company with the 3 plants you are allowed to have as patient (if you are also patient) OR find them in the woods. Or make them "appear" by pure magic as the LCB suggest.
To me this is clearly a state guideline on how to become a criminal. Not a good way to start business, not a good way to run a goverment and make laws............ You almost get the impression, the LCB thinks, marijuana people are all criminals anyway and don't worry that much about rules. OH WELL.

3) The consumer. Yes, you are criminalized, too!

DUI: A cops word is now worth gold in a court. With the new laws, a statement from a cop is enough to convict you in washington. And we all know how that goes when u meet the right cop! Again, its happening already. Its over the news.
Passing a joint: Not decriminalized.
Passing a baggie from your stash to a buddy: Not decriminalized, you cant even gift it.

These bills in washington are not from this world. Welcome to the new regulated marijuana market.

I am mostly worried about all the patients and providers in washington. The news will be full with dui, raids, reefer madness and people getting 25-50 years for growing weed. Its happening now with marijuana involving gun owners in washington, its gonna get alot worse with everything involving marijuana. But hey, you can buy it in a store now. Isn't that great?

I-502 is the worst thing that could happen and all the people saying its a fine thing and everyone just gotta get used to it will have their eyes opened soon.

 

[high life 45]

Catman I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but your ignorance is rather annoying consider the nature of the site.

You say there is no literature support the need for more than one strain but obviously, you haven't looked for the literature.

Perhaps you are truly a recreational user at heart and have been toking under the shield of medical?
I don't care either way, but that's what your posts are telling me.

Let's start with something simple, please do this.

First pull up google on your web browser.

In the search cue type in "cbd for pain" and then hit search.

Please spend some time reading through the results, dig around.

If you can actually spend some time to educate yourself you might find that cbd has anti inflammatory and pain relieving effects.

Next up is "thc shrinks tumors", once again type it in and click that tiny blue magnifying glass.

Please also spend some time here also to educate yourself, since you obviously have yet to do so.

If you have done some reading now you might have two ideas in your head, cbd relives pain and thc shrinks tumors.

If you are a cancer patient receiving chemotherapy your going to want high cbd for pain and high thc for cancer.

So far with breeding and testing the majority of strains are high thc, very few are high cbd.

Some strains are have balanced ratios of thc to cbd. But I have yet to see a train that will have both cbd and thc in the teens.

High thc is easy, plenty of strains have high thc.

Where are you going to get the cbd,? Most people will have to sprout seeds. Which takes time and they could even turn out to be male.

When you've got a six plant limit. Let's say you have 1 high thc flowering and 1 high thc vegging. That leaves you with four seeds to sprout. Better pray that they are female AND high cbd.

For me this is just the basics, some might call it Deductive reasoning, or deductive logic, or me I prefer common sense and compassion.

Perhaps it might lead you to the fact that there is plenty of reason to have more than one strain...

Can you possibly see why someone would need more than one strain?

Now if you want to get more advanced, look up:
Dr Bob Melamede,
the entourage effect of terpenoids
Dr William Courtney


When you can ingest some of that we can touch base on the non stony, low yielding strain that you think someone is gonna grow because there is a "market" , IMO it's the equivalent if trying to sell odouls at a beer festival.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Lets just all agree Catman has no clue. Can't expect a closet grower to get it.

 

[oldchuck]

Hey, let's not dis closet growers. Closet growers = the bane of dope dealers.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

I was a medical marijuana patient in Nevada where only 3 plants were allowed to be in flowering. I followed the rules and could grow 1 pound with a single 600w. That was more than enough for myself and I find it hard to believe that there are many people who need more. Sure, there are some who need more and I hope WA can accommodate those people with extra caregivers or whatever need be. I also find it hard to believe that those in need, would suffer serious consequences if found to be somewhere outside of the law.

I moved from Nevada to Washington for a brief period of time. I gave up trying to make a future for myself in the cannabis industry. I don't have the funds to get off the ground. I'm now more concerned with Washington setting a good example for marijuana LEGALIZATION everywhere.

There is no way WA's i502 would be successful with the MMJ program still active. The whole world needs i502 to succeed. Again, I realize it may harm a few, but the needs of the many come before the few.

you sir have no idea what your talkin about......

 

[Classic Seeds]

it just makes no sense to limit it so restrictive to make a little batch of the cancer cure oil takes a pound minimum just to get enough for a short while. what are you supposed to do with 3 oz's cook it up ever week? extracts take a lot more than puffing to get high does. this law is not about doing anyone a service except the people selling it for the state .why anyone would see it as anything else is beyond me. this is throwing people under the bus no way around it when you know the real facts involved.sick people should be able to have what ever amount they need to work with for themselves . its the people who hide behind cash registers and will feed taxes to the states coffers is all this measure is out to support. it does nothing for medical users and pushes everyone into a one size fits all.if its control you want then why say its legal why not say what it is the state control of marijuana for taxes .this whole idea that everyone grows it to sell it is just bull shit aloha cls

 

[Jhhnn]

There is no way WA's i502 would be successful with the MMJ program still active. The whole world needs i502 to succeed. Again, I realize it may harm a few, but the needs of the many come before the few.

Why would you say that? A64 Retail is already successful here in Colorado, even with personal growing for everybody along with existing MMJ.

The State doesn't need to have a monopoly. If anything, people need to have legal alternatives to keep the State honest.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Hey, let's not dis closet growers. Closet growers = the bane of dope dealers.

By no means my canna brother......we all had to start somewhere.

 

[catman]

You say there is no literature support the need for more than one strain but obviously, you haven't looked for the literature.

I have. I can't prove I didn't find anything. Maybe you could do something mature like post an article and share this wisdom you claim to have...

Perhaps you are truly a recreational user at heart and have been toking under the shield of medical?

Nope.

If you have done some reading now you might have two ideas in your head, cbd relives pain and thc shrinks tumors.

Like I didn't know that...

Perhaps it might lead you to the fact that there is plenty of reason to have more than one strain...

You gave reasons for why a person might need two.. let's shoot for three... Regardless, your still putting words in my mouth that I never said...

Can you possibly see why someone would need more than one strain?

Of course. Even if a person could only grow 1 plant at a time.. they could have dozens of strains stored away if they chose.

Lets just all agree Catman has no clue. Can't expect a closet grower to get it.

wait, get what?

Why would you say that? A64 Retail is already successful here in Colorado, even with personal growing for everybody along with existing MMJ.

Washington is more so treating cannabis like alcohol. People can still brew their own beer there. Making a profit from home brew is another thing... You guys can continue with your rah-rah-we'll fight the government... or you could work in cooperation with the government to actually induce change... The choice is yours.

 

[Jhhnn]

Washington is more so treating cannabis like alcohol. People can still brew their own beer there. Making a profit from home brew is another thing... You guys can continue with your rah-rah-we'll fight the government... or you could work in cooperation with the government to actually induce change... The choice is yours.

You didn't answer my question at all. You claimed that I-502 couldn't work with MMJ still in place. I pointed out that it does work in Colorado, even with personal growing provisions for adults as well.

The accusation that I'm "rah-rah we'll fight the govt" is unwarranted & unwelcome. I-502 was intended to create a retail market while leaving MMJ untouched in Washington. We need to recognize that it and A64 were citizen initiatives, overrides of the normal functioning of govt by the People. They were *not* a product of politicians or their appointees, but were rather opposed by such people in general.

It's unfortunate that I-502 wasn't better structured, like A64, preventing interference with the will of the People by the forces of bureaucracy. People in Washington *did not* vote to close the Co-ops. That was never the intent of I-502. Claims that they must be closed so that I-502 can succeed are without foundation of any kind. We're proving exactly the opposite in Colorado.

As this unfolds, the Colorado model will likely prove superior in every respect, other than to the usual control freaks who apparently still have a lot of wiggle room in Washington.

 

[catman]

You didn't answer my question at all. You claimed that I-502 couldn't work with MMJ still in place. I pointed out that it does work in Colorado, even with personal growing provisions for adults as well.

I'll try again. I must clarify that my idea of i502 being successful would be such that other states would be willing to model themselves after Washington. I never said it absolutely couldn't work, but I will say I feel strongly that future states will model themselves closer to Washington's regulation than Colorado.

The accusation that I'm "rah-rah we'll fight the govt" is unwarranted & unwelcome. I-502 was intended to create a retail market while leaving MMJ untouched in Washington. We need to recognize that it and A64 were citizen initiatives, overrides of the normal functioning of govt by the People. They were *not* a product of politicians or their appointees, but were rather opposed by such people in general.

I did not mean to offend you. I am sorry that I did. It seems we have different ideas of how our government works. I'm not interested in scrutinizing why things are the way they are in our government...I'm more interested in the legalization of cannabis than political theory.

I understand that your upset with how i502 was sold to the people. I am too. The language was that i502 was silent on MMJ. i502 doesn't have anything to do with MMJ. The MMJ laws are in the process of changing and I believe this action is warranted. We can't continue to have such a large proportion of MMJ patients essentially be recreational users. Why would anyone buy i502 legal cannabis in a store when they could otherwise go to a MMJ dispensary for cheaper? Cannabis, to most, is not a cheap commodity.

The Liquor Control Board has greatly pissed me off. Last year the talk was that i502 was going to allow underground growers to become tax paying citizens... they said, "let's just let the growers keep doing what their doing." I know how to grow and believe I'm capable of producing a quality product, but I do not have the means to essentially start up a small business. I actually moved to Washington state because I believed they had enough sense to truly convert black market grows to a legal profession... They didn't live up to their claims... so I left...

As this unfolds, the Colorado model will likely prove superior in every respect, other than to the usual control freaks who apparently still have a lot of wiggle room in Washington.

The alcohol, oil, etc..etc... industry is all ran by control freaks. The DEA is ran by control freaks... There are many good reasons why we have such control. Especially with mind altering substances.

Consider states like North Dakota... if there is any chance in hell they will stop putting harmless citizens in jail and ruining their lives...there will need to be a very controlling model of cannabis...one that delivers on tax dollars.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll try again. I must clarify that my idea of i502 being successful would be such that other states would be willing to model themselves after Washington. I never said it absolutely couldn't work, but I will say I feel strongly that future states will model themselves closer to Washington's regulation than Colorado.

Not if legalization occurs by citizen initiative. The differing experiences in CO & WA are an opportunity from which citizens & activists will learn how to better direct a recalcitrant bureaucracy. A64 accomplishes the Will of the People in ways that I-502 simply does not. As part of the state constitution, the legislature can't change it w/o a vote of the people. Colorado MMJ is the same way. They're stuck with it, the whole giant enchilada.

I did not mean to offend you. I am sorry that I did. It seems we have different ideas of how our government works. I'm not interested in scrutinizing why things are the way they are in our government...I'm more interested in the legalization of cannabis than political theory.

I understand that your upset with how i502 was sold to the people. I am too. The language was that i502 was silent on MMJ. i502 doesn't have anything to do with MMJ. The MMJ laws are in the process of changing and I believe this action is warranted. We can't continue to have such a large proportion of MMJ patients essentially be recreational users. Why would anyone buy i502 legal cannabis in a store when they could otherwise go to a MMJ dispensary for cheaper? Cannabis, to most, is not a cheap commodity.

The Liquor Control Board has greatly pissed me off. Last year the talk was that i502 was going to allow underground growers to become tax paying citizens... they said, "let's just let the growers keep doing what their doing." I know how to grow and believe I'm capable of producing a quality product, but I do not have the means to essentially start up a small business. I actually moved to Washington state because I believed they had enough sense to truly convert black market grows to a legal profession... They didn't live up to their claims... so I left...

The alcohol, oil, etc..etc... industry is all ran by control freaks. The DEA is ran by control freaks... There are many good reasons why we have such control. Especially with mind altering substances.

Consider states like North Dakota... if there is any chance in hell they will stop putting harmless citizens in jail and ruining their lives...there will need to be a very controlling model of cannabis...one that delivers on tax dollars.

Washington's govt is already dealing in dishonesty. Colorado's simply can't.

Even if retail cannabis doesn't turn out to be a big money maker, that was never the point, anyway, other than tangentially. The point is that Colorado residents can now possess, purchase, gift & grow cannabis w/o the slightest fear of State law enforcement, provided some basic rules are observed. Anybody in compliance w/ Colorado law is officially *not* a DEA target, either. I really don't give a damn if they make money or not, because none of that can likely be taken away, ever. That's the real point, the heart of the matter.

Once seen to work here in an entirely satisfactory manner, it simply won't be possible to contain it.

 

[high life 45]

I personally enjoy variety, but I don't believe there is any scientific literature suggesting a variety of strains is therapeutic.

What do you need to select for? All cannabis effects particular neurotransmitters to varying degrees. There aren't any other medications I'm aware of that require different flavors.

...Cannabis contains THC, CBD, and several other compounds. There are relatively large bodies of research on them. There is no explanation as to why a person would need a variety of strains for cannabis to be effective.

I'm sorry you can't truthfully represent what I have stated.

I have. I can't prove I didn't find anything. Maybe you could do something mature like post an article and share this wisdom you claim to have...

You gave reasons for why a person might need two.. let's shoot for three... Regardless, your still putting words in my mouth that I never said...



Washington is more so treating cannabis like alcohol.

Hahahahahaha cat man you poor guy, I feel so bad for ya, that anti rooting stuff you painted on the inside of your buckets has obviously leached into your cannabis and is inhibiting your brains function.

Go back to my post and learn for yourself.

You say
"like I didn't know that"
"You can't truthfully represent what you have said"
"Your putting words in my mouth that you never said"

Looks pretty clear to me all in quotes of things you said.... but your correct when you say that there is no truth in them.

Get that paint out of your buckets bro, your worrying me.

 

[VenturaHwy]

The State of Washington wants a govt monopoly growing and selling weed. So they are trying to drive the small medical grower out of business or to prison. When they passed this piece of legislation they also passed a bill to increase prison space, guess who they intend to put in prison?

Cannabis was already legal in WA State with freedom for the people of state to grow 15 plants and have 24 ounces, just needed a medical authorization.

Now if this becomes law the growers will have to go underground again because 6 plants and 3 ounces would be a total waste of time for most of us. Growers would have to live once again with police raiding their homes and throwing them in prison. All to give the state the monopoly they want.