Epsome salt vs Cal Mag for Mag. deffitiency in coco

[Coconutz]

Hi. Sorry for long silence. Been absent in a cave
Here is what i found after a week of searching and talking to various people at various places All though CalMag has N in it, as a nutrient it is still very beneficial to plants at any stage. I decided not to cut it out of my regiment completley. I continue to use it as recommended.
I learned that Epsom Salt in coco brings many benefits, especially if you have Mag looking deffitiency. I also wanted to see an effect of salt in my particular situation, so I started adding 50mg of that to my 55 gallon tank.
The results were pleasant. Almost overnight, salt did what it does and signes of diffitiencies started dissapearing quickly.
What I have right now is, no purple stems, still purple stalks on the old leaves. New leaves stalks are green. 100 percent of leaves looks green and normal. A lot of them are perky and looking up. But some 20 percent still display a slight curl downward, but they still look healthy. Today is a 13th day of bloom and bud development seems to be a bit ahead of schedule.
Seems that if I will continue with exactly the same thing, this grow will be just as good as the last.
But most importantly, I don't feel that something may go wrong any day. Which is how I felt when I started with coco for the first time.
The garden gives me strong and happy sence that things are progressing as good as they can be.

BTW, I will recommend using Bud Blood in the first week of bloom. You easily see the difference.

Thats a clear sign of way too much N.
How adding more fixes anything? I dont know...
If you continue to add cal once the cal cation is filled by the coco your problems will just snowball, locking out more and more mag and other competing cations.
Adding more mag just compounds the problems and pushes us higher off the chart.
If none of this makes sense to you, I suggest you just start taking the advice from others that you asked for advice from.

By looking at the chart we can see that there there is no benefit to giving a plant more than it needs.
In fact there is a huge drop off of efficiency when we burn our plants with too much.
Right now you are on the wrong end of this chart... Or off the wrong end is a better way of putting it.
You need to back way off - from D back to B
If youre worried about difitchenticities then atleast back off to "C" because you are off the chart right now or your plants wouldnt be curling

This is your first grow in coco, your plants are burned and you are able to recommend that you can easily see the difference because of using bud blood?
Thats a ridiculous statement! Holy shit! But Ill get right on it because of your recommendation!
Good luck!

 

[stoned40yrs]

Those plants have been overfed N (watch out for insects) not underfed Mg. It don't matter what your media is...6.4 is the pH plants operate best at.

Wrong

pH Issues

For all the benefits of growing in coco, it is not without its quirks. One of the difficulties coco growers encounter is stabilizing the pH of the medium so that nutrients remain available to the plant and beneficial microbes. To prevent nutrient lockout problems, the pH of the nutrient solution should be kept between 5.5 and 6.2.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Did you collect your runoff yet as suggested above and take the pH / EC? We can't help you without your cooperation.

I thought checking runoff was worthless, this is what I found:
pH Issues

"The pH of the coco medium should be tested as well. Unlike with soil, checking the pH in the root zone by testing runoff is not very telling with coco, because the elements that bind to coco may not be at the same concentration in runoff as they are in the root zone.

To test the pH levels your plants’ roots are dealing with, take about a 1-ounce sample of moist – not dripping wet — coco out of a container, stir it with 2.5 ounces of distilled water and measure the pH after the mixture has rested for about 20 minutes."

 

[stihgnobevoli]

the curled up leaves will not uncurl don't look for them to. just watch to make sure it doesn't progress to new leaves.

 

[AloeRuss]

New leaves lookin very good as they should so far.

 

[AloeRuss]

I hear suggestions to feed and water daily.
I have never done daily feedings before. What is the need?

Coconutz - if I would follow every single advice, my plants would certainly be dead by now.
Just this thread suggests that I have every single deffitiency and ph problem under the sun.
I mean do you hear yourself? Would you really follow every advice here?

 

[AloeRuss]

The biggest benefit of communicating like this for me is to learn, think and research.
This place deffenatley lead me to right things and ideas to look for. Every single suggestion opens my mind to more research and leads me to right questions to ask in the right places.
But I don't think anyone here would be strange enough to physically change regiments, nutrients or processe when someone tells them to! Ridiculous.

 

[AloeRuss]

Oh yeah, and the bud blood difference is in the way the buds are formed and not the way problem is taken care of. Sometimes I wonder if you even read things posted at all my friend.

 

[milkyjoe]

Wrong

pH Issues

For all the benefits of growing in coco, it is not without its quirks. One of the difficulties coco growers encounter is stabilizing the pH of the medium so that nutrients remain available to the plant and beneficial microbes. To prevent nutrient lockout problems, the pH of the nutrient solution should be kept between 5.5 and 6.2.

My opinion remains coco growers have quirks, coco does not. But if you are happy that is what matters.

 

[theother]

My opinion remains coco growers have quirks, coco does not. But if you are happy that is what matters.

This is one of my new favorite quotes!!!!

 

[stoned40yrs]

My opinion remains coco growers have quirks, coco does not. But if you are happy that is what matters.

No, it has nothing to do with being happy. I have been reading thousands of posts about growing in coco over the last 3 months as this will be my first coco grow after 50 some grows in soil. Literally hundreds and hundreds of people have stated they aim for 5.8 and the range in coco should be 5.5-6.2. You are the first one I've seen say 6.4. No big deal for me as by the amount of other people posts I've read I know your 6.4 is waaay out in right field. I only commented on it because some other coco noob like me might not invest a lot of time into reading and just use the 6.4 number you tossed out like it was the norm for coco.

 

[DrDee]

Hi AloeRuss,
It's my understanding that coco can be used as a soil replacement...or as a hydro medium. Coco comes in really coarse grind up to really fine stuff. So if you set up a medium coarse coco (hydro) grow, indeed you want to feed daily and sometimes several times daily. Think of an E&F system where you feed 3 or 4 times a day...same thing with coarse coco being used as a hydro medium. That's just the way it's done. Nutrient strengths are adjusted accordingly so no burn occurs. The payoff is rapid growth.

Sorry you're getting frustrated with the variety of advice you've gotten. It isn't easy diagnosing an issue from description and pictures. The final decision is always up to you.
Cheers,
JD

 

[Coconutz]

The reason you aim for 5.5-6.0 is because the ph will naturally rise in the medium.
If you are feeding above 6.0 youre out of range.
Just about every single bag of coco comes with instructions to fertilize with a solution from 5.2-6.1(5.2 for seedlings)
Its a pretty wide range so there should be no trouble keeping it withing the optimal zone.
No big deal.
6.4 is a little high though because it will rise in the coco
Peace

 

[Coconutz]

I hear suggestions to feed and water daily.
I have never done daily feedings before. What is the need?

Coconutz - if I would follow every single advice, my plants would certainly be dead by now.
Just this thread suggests that I have every single deffitiency and ph problem under the sun.
I mean do you hear yourself? Would you really follow every advice here?

Coco is a hydro medium. You dont want it to dry and you want to keep the cec & ph stable by reseting it with fresh nute
I dont even think a lot of these people know youre growing in coco, or have ever grown in coco themselves.
Good luck homie

 

[AloeRuss]

Ok. That is a good explanation. Watering daily question becomes a bit more clearer.
One last question I deffenatley want to ask is what is a difference between coco and Piet moss? I mean, they both hydro. Would you water and handle P Moss just the same as?
I usually water well with at least 30 runoff.

 

[Coconutz]

I wouldnt call peat a hydro medium...
Coir holds more air and has a lower CeC than peat.
Coco is also much more ph stable
Peat is more of an amendment and when it starts to break down it acidifies.
Peat might be better outdoors because it has better water retention, but if you want fast growth indoors stick with coco

 

[prune]

No, it has nothing to do with being happy. I have been reading thousands of posts about growing in coco over the last 3 months as this will be my first coco grow after 50 some grows in soil. Literally hundreds and hundreds of people have stated they aim for 5.8 and the range in coco should be 5.5-6.2. You are the first one I've seen say 6.4. No big deal for me as by the amount of other people posts I've read I know your 6.4 is waaay out in right field. I only commented on it because some other coco noob like me might not invest a lot of time into reading and just use the 6.4 number you tossed out like it was the norm for coco.

Yes, that's the answer - follow the conventional wisdom - cause it works out so well for everyone! If what you want is average pot, follow the average advice - if you desire better than that you need to know who the insightful outliers are, and what THEY know.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

peat is humus/aka compost it is an organic medium used mostly in soil. it is acidic yes. holds moisture very well, air not so much.

coco is coconut fibers. also organic matter but it takes way longer to break down than peat which is already all the way broken down. peat will lower your ph overall. coco is inert meaning it won't change your pH on it's own but will take the ph of whatever you add. it's like a clean sponge. holds a lot of air and moisture but only so much. dries out fairly fast depending on how fine the material is.

imagine coco as a clean mostly dry sponge, and peat is a soggy sponge that's gonna stay soggy till you let it dry out really slowly and then it will get super hard like a brick and be real hard to wet again if it gets all the way dry. gets hydrophobic.

if you're going to be doing bottled nutes you should go the coco route. if you wanna do organic go the peat route. you could prolly mix em, but you will want to go the organic route depending on how much of it is peat.

i'm sure for instance that miracle gro if you exclude the nutes is almost all peat with some wood bark and perlite mixed in for aeration.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Yes, that's the answer - follow the conventional wisdom - cause it works out so well for everyone! If what you want is average pot, follow the average advice - if you desire better than that you need to know who the insightful outliers are, and what THEY know.

It's bad enough I gotta follow the collective wisdom of a bunch of people stoned on pot, anybody preaching a radical departure from that is probably on acid.

 

[AloeRuss]

I was a bit unsure in the beginning. After several very good runs in peat I went to coco. Those who saw my older posts know why. Those who don't, I got it for free.
Well. I am starting bloom, week 3. It is easy to tell that my plants look entirely different.
My PH aim is 5.8-5.9.
I am liking it so far.